Mariyam Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) @coffee_rules Your comments in Italics. My reply in regular font. Quote I had come across Faiz earlier as the commies in India love to quote him. Until reading about this verse,I didn’t realize he was not an atheist as commies made him out to be, in India. I referred to three different translations and all referred to ‘but’ as idols and that verse refers to Mohd’s destruction of idols in Kaaba. Agreed that video translated wrongly, but this gist of it remains, Allah will be vindicated in the end. What kind of non-religions peaceful protest is that, that too , in the context of CAA? You are so quick to throw around labels here: athiest, commie, marxist, islamist etc without even going through any of his work. So what if he is a 'commie', does that belittle his work? Or if he is a Muslim, does that mean his poems are suddenly suspect? What has that to do with anything? The fact of the matter here is that people who have no idea about Faiz's poetry are all over social and mainstream media making ridiculous claims that the poem is anti Hindu, Faiz was Anti Hindu etc. Most of these people have never read his poems until they came across this during the protests. Watch this clip. Especially from the 5th minute mark. Javed Akhtar, speaks about this specific poem. ( don't want to pull a I told you so, but what he says here is exactly what I've been saying on the topic all along). Just maybe you should realize that people who have read the poem and are aware of the zeitgeist of the poetry do not find anything wrong with this poem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xssudtlvhg4 I would take Akhtar sahab's word over the allegations of any of the absolute nobodies in the field of poetry. Isn’t he insinuating that Zia, the oppressor, will be destroyed , just like how Mohd did to the idols of Kaaba? Yes, he is insinuating that Zia is an opressor, but nowhere does he insinuate that Zia is a non believer. That is a figment of the provocatively fertile imagination of the people who want to make an issue out of something inconsequential and give this a communal colour. Edited January 3, 2020 by Mariyam
Mariyam Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 On 12/30/2019 at 7:23 PM, coffee_rules said: Language of the peaceful, potty mouthed Fathima.. Agree that the spokesperson has a filthy mouth and this is no way to speak about our PM. However, why are you calling her Fathima?? Do you have such friends and you know that it is her name? Or is this a seditious attempt on your part to cause disharmony between two communities by intentionally using the name of a person many Muslims revere? coffee_rules 1
coffee_rules Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Mariyam said: Agree that the spokesperson has a filthy mouth and this is no way to speak about our PM. However, why are you calling her Fathima?? Do you have such friends and you know that it is her name? Or is this a seditious attempt on your part to cause disharmony between two communities by intentionally using the name of a person many Muslims revere? I cant call her Pankaja going by her garb. Disharmony is already cause by the potty-mouth, she also insulted Hindu funeral practices as well. That is hate-speech that is normalized by the CAA protests.
coffee_rules Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Mariyam said: @coffee_rules Your comments in Italics. My reply in regular font. Quote You are so quick to throw around labels here: athiest, commie, marxist, islamist etc without even going through any of his work. So what if he is a 'commie', does that belittle his work? Or if he is a Muslim, does that mean his poems are suddenly suspect? What has that to do with anything? The fact of the matter here is that people who have no idea about Faiz's poetry are all over social and mainstream media making ridiculous claims that the poem is anti Hindu, Faiz was Anti Hindu etc. Most of these people have never read his poems until they came across this during the protests. He may not be Anti-Hindu, but using his poetry which glorifies Islamic iconoclastic symbols in the context of CAA protests is Anti-Hindu. Pro-CAA is fighting for persecuted Hindus to be given citizenship. These anti-CAA protests are singing paens about "Naam rahega allah ka, sab but uthaaye jaayenge" is definitely perceived as anti-Hindu. We get it that Faiz wrote it against Zia, but the context here is sloganeering in India presently is "Tere Mera Rishta kya, La ilaha illallah" and such Islamic symbol glorification of Faiz will be seen as the same as the former. Quote Watch this clip. Especially from the 5th minute mark. Javed Akhtar, speaks about this specific poem. ( don't want to pull a I told you so, but what he says here is exactly what I've been saying on the topic all along). Just maybe you should realize that people who have read the poem and are aware of the zeitgeist of the poetry do not find anything wrong with this poem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xssudtlvhg4 I don't consider Javed Akhtar an intellectual and we have had discussions earlier about how hypocritical he is. Yet, he has explained the words of Faiz as I understood it from other sources. There is nothing new in knowing that this poem is written against the oppression of Zia. Quote I would take Akhtar sahab's word over the allegations of any of the absolute nobodies in the field of poetry. I would consider these sources more reliable than Akhtar. https://www.opindia.com/2020/01/faiz-ahmed-faiz-liberal-hypocrisy-hum-dekhenge/ [Debugging Faiz , not as Anti-Hindu, but defeating the logic of the left glorifying his peotry for Indian revolutions!] From the man who opened the whole debate (IIT-K faculty who called the protests Anti-Hindu) https://swarajyamag.com/blogs/i-am-the-faculty-who-opposed-faizs-hum-dekhenge-in-iit-kanpur-campus-and-here-is-why-i-did-it Quote Yes, he is insinuating that Zia is an opressor, but nowhere does he insinuate that Zia is a non believer. That is a figment of the provocatively fertile imagination of the people who want to make an issue out of something inconsequential and give this a communal colour. As said earlier, Faiz's nazm might be in a context of Zia, but in the context of anti-CAA, it will be considered as communal as "la illaha illallah. Also Javed explained: Hum ahl-e-safa mardood-e-harm Masnad pe bethae jaenge He is referring to Zia who has now an authority and sitting on a throne is a mardood-e-harm (people who are condemned by religion - haram as per religion), such crowns will be thrown out and allah's name will remain. Equating the authority in India's context is the CAA which is favoring non-Muslims and hence mardood-e-harm!
Mariyam Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, coffee_rules said: I cant call her Pankaja going by her garb. Disharmony is already cause by the potty-mouth, she also insulted Hindu funeral practices as well. That is hate-speech that is normalized by the CAA protests. You are using the anti CAA protests as an excuse for what is essentially your bigotry. If it were a Hindu criminal/protester would you use the names of Hindu Deities/saints to address him? Or would you find that as acceptable nomenclature? Exactly. Also, what is with the condescending use of "Peacefuls" when talking about Muslims. Can you not say Muslims? Edited January 4, 2020 by Mariyam sandeep and Stuge 2
Mariyam Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) @coffee_rules Reply in parts. Quote He may not be Anti-Hindu, but using his poetry which glorifies Islamic iconoclastic symbols in the context of CAA protests is Anti-Hindu. Pro-CAA is fighting for persecuted Hindus to be given citizenship. These anti-CAA protests are singing paens about "Naam rahega allah ka, sab but uthaaye jaayenge" is definitely perceived as anti-Hindu. We get it that Faiz wrote it against Zia, but the context here is sloganeering in India presently is "Tere Mera Rishta kya, La ilaha illallah" and such Islamic symbol glorification of Faiz will be seen as the same as the former. Did you watch the video? Only in the perception of a few are these anti Hindu. Feel free to be offended. People sitting peacefully and chanting poems which have nothing to with any of what you suggest is completely legit. Also "tera mera rishta kya, la ilaha illalah" is not a part of this poem. Why do you juxtapose the two? That is extremely disingenuous. Quote I don't consider Javed Akhtar an intellectual and we have had discussions earlier about how hypocritical he is. Yet, he has explained the words of Faiz as I understood it from other sources. There is nothing new in knowing that this poem is written against the oppression of Zia. Javed Akhar may or may not be an intellectual. But he definitely isn't an Islamist as you so vehemently claimed all along. Anyone who is a Muslims and doesn't agree with you, doesn't become an Islamist. That's not how stuff works. Quote I would consider these sources more reliable than Akhtar. https://www.opindia.com/2020/01/faiz-ahmed-faiz-liberal-hypocrisy-hum-dekhenge/ [Debugging Faiz , not as Anti-Hindu, but defeating the logic of the left glorifying his peotry for Indian revolutions!] Thanks for the laugh. I looked up this Rahul Roshan guy. Never before has he reviewed any poetry. Nor does he have any poetry in Urdu, or any other language for that matter. Yet according to you, his judgement of poetry is better than Javed Akhtar's? Is it because, just like you, he never came across this poem before it was used in these protests? Edited January 5, 2020 by Mariyam
coffee_rules Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 9 hours ago, Mariyam said: You are using the anti CAA protests as an excuse for what is essentially your bigotry. On the contrary, these anti-CAA protests have exposed the bigotry and Hinduphobia of the liberals and Indian Muslims (there you go). I am not a bigot, I don’t hate Muslims, but argue with hard facts about some truths of Islamic past. I want Indian Muslims to acknowledge the atrocities committed by Islamic invaders on India , Hindus, temples, culture and philosophy and not hide behind the logic of being a religion of peace. Extremism is at different levels among Muslims compared to others. People like Abdul Kalam, K.K Mohd, Arif Mohd Khanare role models and not Irfan Habib, Saba, Rana. Arfa, Zainadine etc. Instead the former will be called BJP chaatus and 9 hours ago, Mariyam said: If it were a Hindu criminal/protester would you use the names of Hindu Deities/saints to address him? Or would you find that as acceptable nomenclature? Exactly. May be, I would, How would you know? Bad on my part to use names, but more because of the language and tone, which is normalized in the name of CAA protest 9 hours ago, Mariyam said: Also, what is with the condescending use of "Peacefuls" when talking about Muslims. Can you not say Muslims? That is mostly sarcasm to point out the liberal definition of Islam as ROP to the hypocrisy of some section of Muslims. I have never called you a peaceful, so you getting offended is not reasonable.
sandeep Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 44 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: That is mostly sarcasm to point out the liberal definition of Islam as ROP to the hypocrisy of some section of Muslims. I have never called you a peaceful, so you getting offended is not reasonable. So if a white guy refers to Hindus sarcastically as smelly brown curry munchers in conversation with you, is look a long as he does not directly call you that? Casual bigotry is insidious. And indefensible. Your attitude is quite Pakistani in this way. They also think that they are "fair" to their minorities, with the implication that they have to always "know their place". Mariyam 1
coffee_rules Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) dup Quote Edited January 4, 2020 by coffee_rules
coffee_rules Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, sandeep said: So if a white guy refers to Hindus sarcastically as smelly brown curry munchers in conversation with you, is look a long as he does not directly call you that? Casual bigotry is insidious. And indefensible. Your attitude is quite Pakistani in this way. They also think that they are "fair" to their minorities, with the implication that they have to always "know their place". False equivalence and straw man logic. Don’t Muslim moderates always say theirs is a religion of peace, your example is not the same. It is in the face racism. How is calling them peaceful the same? Pakistanis hate minorities because they are kaffirs and not minorities, Edited January 4, 2020 by coffee_rules
coffee_rules Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) Anti CAA protest in Hyderabad @nikred tri color flag has Ashok chakra missing and urdu script saying “ la ilaha illalla, Mohammadur Rasulallah”. Yes, they tell me it is a “secular” protest peacefully protesting. Isn’t it normalization of sedition? Edited January 4, 2020 by coffee_rules
sandeep Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 21 hours ago, coffee_rules said: False equivalence and straw man logic. Don’t Muslim moderates always say theirs is a religion of peace, your example is not the same. It is in the face racism. How is calling them peaceful the same? Pakistanis hate minorities because they are kaffirs and not minorities, You are taunting Mariyam by mockingly calling all those who follow her faith "peacefuls". Why are you playing coy now?
coffee_rules Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 54 minutes ago, sandeep said: You are taunting Mariyam by mockingly calling all those who follow her faith "peacefuls". Why are you playing coy now? You are equating peaceful to a racial slur. Don’t we call RWers bhakts ?
sandeep Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: You are equating peaceful to a racial slur. Don’t we call RWers bhakts ? Even if we accept your bad comparison, all hindus are not derogatorily referred to as Bhakts. And somebody who does that is rightly called a bigot. Again, that's what greenbros do - refer to ALL Indians as RW bhakts, Hindutva whatever, right? Do you think that's acceptable? Edited January 5, 2020 by sandeep
coffee_rules Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 59 minutes ago, sandeep said: Even if we accept your bad comparison, all hindus are not derogatorily referred to as Bhakts. And somebody who does that is rightly called a bigot. Again, that's what greenbros do - refer to ALL Indians as RW bhakts, Hindutva whatever, right? Do you think that's acceptable? I mentioned some Muslims are peacefuls, don’t go around telling all are , like greenbros do to all Hindus. Enough of this virtue signaling from you, stop bringing the Godwin’s law equivalent for greenbros into a discussion. Dare huwe log, peacefuls is not bigotry, but a mirror to liberal agenda. Indian liberals and Pakistani Imran Khan are equating the moniroties’ plight in the two countries. This is a false narrative when India has umpteen articles in the constitution and followed by government (even by BJP) protecting minority educational and religious rights, and infringing the same rights to majority Hindus.
sandeep Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: I mentioned some Muslims are peacefuls, don’t go around telling all are , like greenbros do to all Hindus. Enough of this virtue signaling from you, stop bringing the Godwin’s law equivalent for greenbros into a discussion. Dare huwe log, peacefuls is not bigotry, but a mirror to liberal agenda. Indian liberals and Pakistani Imran Khan are equating the moniroties’ plight in the two countries. This is a false narrative when India has umpteen articles in the constitution and followed by government (even by BJP) protecting minority educational and religious rights, and infringing the same rights to majority Hindus. I could give a flying f** about greenbros and Immy the dimwit. It bothers me more that a fellow fan on 'our' forum is debasing himself by resorting to behavior like those folks. And its not "virtue signaling". Being silent and condoning bigotry, is what enables it. empowers it. Edited January 5, 2020 by sandeep
coffee_rules Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) ^^ whatever rocks your boat, dude. I’d rather be a bigot than a secular. I believe in plurality Edited January 5, 2020 by coffee_rules LordPrabhzy 1
sandeep Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: ^^ whatever rocks your boat, dude. I’d rather be a bigot than a secular. I believe in plurality I don't believe you are a bigot - your anger and frustration at certain issues is misdirected and spills over into prejudice sometimes.
vayuu1 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Deepika Padukone supporting kanhaiya kumar,naras of jai bheem jai meem going on in front of her, not going to watch her film.ever. randomGuy 1
Recommended Posts