Fresh buying of Russian Jets.

[G_B_]

3 hours ago, Clarke said:

 

Agree on the role of AWACS, they timed it perfectly. Didn't mention it since the thread was about fighters. 

 

Having said that, I would not sing praises for the Fishbed in 21st century warfare. It may have an advantage or two but its an indicator of our systemic failures, not some top notch timeless technological masterpiece. Nor do i care about how much value for money it may seem, its airframe, engines, avionics and missiles can only achieve so much. The Sukhoi is a capable platform but was let down by its missile, the tip of the spear for an air superiority fighter. If it wasn't meant to fight, why was the IAF looking for longer range missiles post the battle ?

 

For an airforce having a substantially bigger budget than its adversary, we should have been able to inflict some painful blows on that morning. Fighters were part of the problem that we couldn't do so. 

Nobody should sing praises. All i wanted to convey was that the Mig 29 or Mig 21 with upgrades serve a purpose as being decent defensive interceptors. They are not as weak as they are made out to be. With 110km range Astra on order (which we should be able to manufactuer quickly) it will give more teeth to all our jets.

 

Re budget see the elephant in the room is the slow development of Tejas. We should have had around 200 tejas 1a by now meeting all specification. They should have replaced the mig29 and mig 21. 

 

Pak air force held together by around 30 to 40 block c n d f16. I doubt usa going to give them anymore. On paper they have 80 odd but lack of spares means they are having to cannibalise them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FischerTal]

what people here are forgetting is the biggest weapon in our arsenal in the next decade, the S-400. The S-400 was bought primarily to make up for the diminishing squadron strength of the IAF. dont be surprised if one battery is placed somewhere near Amritsar in future to deter PAF

 

now we can analyze 27 Feb in great detail, but the main outcome of the operation is this. We targeted Balakot, 70 km away from the LoC while our fighters made at least a 8 km ingress in PoK despite Pakistani jets being on CAP duty. in response, they assembled a 24 jet strike package and intentionally "missed" our Brigade headquarters in Rajouri, which can be easily targeted via artillery due to its proximity to the LoC. ACM Tipnis already spoke in depth about this in an interview to a Marathi newspaper where he explained that their targets were AFS Srinagar and AFS Awantipora but they were promptly denied by our Mig 21s coming in undetected from the Pir Panjal mountain range, so they had to choose secondary targets to save face. We had our own range of failures that day, but the reason for these failures were already known to IAF and the govt, so you cannot blame anyone but yourself. 

 

a) lack of adequate radar coverage in some key areas along the LoC

b) lack of SDR for our pilots, which were ordered after this incident

c) the 500 AMRAAMs were procured by the Pakistanis back in 2011, yet no alarm bells were ringing in IAF or MoD over this. 

d) lack of HAS for our frontline air bases, which exposes you to missile salvos by the enemy.

e) most importantly, not investing like madmen in the LCA Tejas project, which could ensure we have the quantitative numbers to ward off the enemy, instead of being content with only 8 CAP on duty for the entire LoC!!!

[raki05]

51 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

what people here are forgetting is the biggest weapon in our arsenal in the next decade, the S-400

It's still not in our arsenal they way indian gov works let's see when we get it. However sources said by oct we should commence it in services.

[G_B_]

S400 is overhyped. Has range of 300 to 400km.

 

An su30mki launches a nuclear tipped brahmos. 300 to 400km away then the probabilty of intercepton is 50%. Against sea or land launched objects its much higher at aroynd 95%

 

S400 is weak against hypersonic missiles. Will not stand upto say a brahmos 2. 

 

 

[FischerTal]

2 hours ago, G_B_ said:

S400 is overhyped. Has range of 300 to 400km.

 

An su30mki launches a nuclear tipped brahmos. 300 to 400km away then the probabilty of intercepton is 50%. Against sea or land launched objects its much higher at aroynd 95%

 

S400 is weak against hypersonic missiles. Will not stand upto say a brahmos 2. 

 

 

against Pakistan, it is enough. they lack strategic depth.

[MechEng]

When that country produces people like IE Irodov and SS Krotov, you can't judge Russian engineering.

[G_B_]

2 hours ago, FischerTal said:

against Pakistan, it is enough. they lack strategic depth.

Thats true. Most pakistani cities within 300km of the border.

[sandeep]

7 hours ago, FischerTal said:

what people here are forgetting is the biggest weapon in our arsenal in the next decade, the S-400. The S-400 was bought primarily to make up for the diminishing squadron strength of the IAF. dont be surprised if one battery is placed somewhere near Amritsar in future to deter PAF

 

now we can analyze 27 Feb in great detail, but the main outcome of the operation is this. We targeted Balakot, 70 km away from the LoC while our fighters made at least a 8 km ingress in PoK despite Pakistani jets being on CAP duty. in response, they assembled a 24 jet strike package and intentionally "missed" our Brigade headquarters in Rajouri, which can be easily targeted via artillery due to its proximity to the LoC. ACM Tipnis already spoke in depth about this in an interview to a Marathi newspaper where he explained that their targets were AFS Srinagar and AFS Awantipora but they were promptly denied by our Mig 21s coming in undetected from the Pir Panjal mountain range, so they had to choose secondary targets to save face. We had our own range of failures that day, but the reason for these failures were already known to IAF and the govt, so you cannot blame anyone but yourself. 

 

a) lack of adequate radar coverage in some key areas along the LoC

b) lack of SDR for our pilots, which were ordered after this incident

c) the 500 AMRAAMs were procured by the Pakistanis back in 2011, yet no alarm bells were ringing in IAF or MoD over this. 

d) lack of HAS for our frontline air bases, which exposes you to missile salvos by the enemy.

e) most importantly, not investing like madmen in the LCA Tejas project, which could ensure we have the quantitative numbers to ward off the enemy, instead of being content with only 8 CAP on duty for the entire LoC!!!

Problem is that we won't have S400 deployed fully, for another couple of years.

[FischerTal]

41 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Problem is that we won't have S400 deployed fully, for another couple of years.

one regiment is enough for Pakistani. 

 

read this article by a retired PAF Air Commodore and see why they are s h I t ting bricks over the combined use of Rafales+S400. 

 

http://southasiajournal.net/impact-of-s-400-air-defence-sam-induction-in-india-on-the-paf/

Edited July 3, 2020 by FischerTal

[FischerTal]

1 hour ago, G_B_ said:

Thats true. Most pakistani cities within 300km of the border.

why do you think they have so much interest in a destabilized Afghanistan? 

[G_B_]

53 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

why do you think they have so much interest in a destabilized Afghanistan? 

Well chhabar is operational. Hopefully we build shahtoot dam soon..

 

 

 

[FischerTal]

5 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Well chhabar is operational. Hopefully we build shahtoot dam soon..

 

 

 

our assets in Baluchistan will come in quite handy. just yesterday, the head of LeT in Baluchistan, a known 26/11 conspirator, was gunned down in Karachi. we are saving those assets to strike at the right time.

[Vilander]

On 7/2/2020 at 5:00 PM, G_B_ said:

Nobody should sing praises. All i wanted to convey was that the Mig 29 or Mig 21 with upgrades serve a purpose as being decent defensive interceptors. They are not as weak as they are made out to be. With 110km range Astra on order (which we should be able to manufactuer quickly) it will give more teeth to all our jets.

 

Re budget see the elephant in the room is the slow development of Tejas. We should have had around 200 tejas 1a by now meeting all specification. They should have replaced the mig29 and mig 21. 

 

Pak air force held together by around 30 to 40 block c n d f16. I doubt usa going to give them anymore. On paper they have 80 odd but lack of spares means they are having to cannibalise them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They have j17 bhandar in good numbers. Its a worthy fighter has bvr.

[G_B_]

The jf17 is boosted by its weapons platform.

 

But its not suited to strike beyond enemy lines.

 

Limited combat radius and payload capacity.

 

Its their defensive option 

[Clarke]

JF-17 stealth variant will be coming soon, inshallah!

[G_B_]

I think more than stealth the Pakistani game plan is to induct the p15 missile with supposedly 300km range and include a heavy duty radar. There is a lot of chattar if this is just an on paper missile or its range means it is easy to dodge.

 

We will need to do the same with our mki. Upgrade the radar to detect the f35 and j20 and add a longer range bvr. Lets see how astra does. If its a hit then it wont be long before a 150km to 200km astra 2.

 

The advantage we have is an mki is much easier upgradable than the jf17.