People who have seen Ian Botham, How does Stokes stand in comparison to him ?

[Gollum]

In H2H battles Botham owned Kapil, in fact destroyed will be a more apt word. 

[Gollum]

16 hours ago, maniac said:

Stokes is the no.1 allrounder in the world today, Man of the match in a wc final and a wc winner, IPL MVP in his first season, Played one of the most clutch Ashes knock if that’s a criteria for some, Infamous for the WT20 final over but the fact that he was part of that England team which is a force in T20I as well,

 

I don’t think any of Botham’s accomplishments even come close.

Why bringing in IPL and T20 bro? In ODIs Stokes is better, not even close in tests atm. Cute that you brought his WC final exploits, that way even Gambhir will look better than some elite ATGs. 

16 hours ago, maniac said:

Kapil WC winner as captain,WC semi finalist,  Played one of the greatest odi knocks of all time, did it all in tests. At one point highest odi and test wicket taker in the world. That’s a  lot more than what Botham could ever dream of

Kapil easily better in ODIs, and against ATG WI in tests. Beyond that, not really and I say this as a Kapil fan. Too much hyperbole in your posts, 'Botham could not even dream of?' Come on man you can't be serious, I would actually refute these points but you know your cricket. Maybe you are just in the mood for some ranting.

[maniac]

14 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Why bringing in IPL and T20 bro? In ODIs Stokes is better, not even close in tests atm. Cute that you brought his WC final exploits, that way even Gambhir will look better than some elite ATGs. 

Kapil easily better in ODIs, and against ATG WI in tests. Beyond that, not really and I say this as a Kapil fan. Too much hyperbole in your posts, 'Botham could not even dream of?' Come on man you can't be serious, I would actually refute these points but you know your cricket. Maybe you are just in the mood for some ranting.

A 24 year old winning a World Cup as a captain against the ATG WI, played what is known as one of the greatest odi knocks of all time, how is Botham greater than Kapil.

 

I don’t care for stats or some Ashes specific numbers. 
 

Kapil’s or for the matter of fact Stokes body of work is greater than Botham’s.

 

Simple, I will pick Gambhir over Pujara even though Pujara might be a greater test player than Gambhir but Gambhir has a decent test record and has a reputation of being a clutch player.

 

Botham was good but not the best thing since slice bread.

 

Also the competition and the cricket itself is way more difficult in Stokes era than Botham’s era.

 

[maniac]

Also for people ignoring IPl performances, even during England, Aus,SENA or even Pakistan tests IPl is constantly brought up. About time we stop showing prejudice to our own product. IPL is as much of a benchmark to rate the modern player as any other format. I would say IPL these days is more challenging than a bilateral odi or t20.

 

Also I am not saying Stokes is greater player because of IPl exploits, Stokes has shined and made a name for himself in every format he had a chance in.

 

Thats why as a complete package had a higher usp than Botham 

Edited July 21, 2020 by maniac

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

I remember a bit of Botham, and he was way ahead any other english allrounder mentioned here. I dont rate Stokes as a bowler. For me, that takes away a lot from him being called a genuine allrounder like Botham. 

an ODI bowl avg: of  almost 42 with an econ:  of 6+  is far from being even modest. Even Sachin  averages 44 with far more longevity. So yes,,,,,, he is more of a good batsman    who can bowl a bit in ODIs That takes away his claim as a genuine all rounder..

[Deleted_User_1]

Saw Botham on several occasions in the early 80s as a kid. Don't remember details, but I saw a match at Eden with my cousin who was younger than me. He was supporting England since he loved Botham and Eden crowd ganged up on him. :(

 

Botham was really good for a few years - from his debut to about mid 80s. 

 

Stokes is a special allrounder, but I think Botham faced better attacks and was a better bowler in hey day.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Audiophile

[maniac]

2 hours ago, Audiophile said:

Saw Botham on several occasions in the early 80s as a kid. Don't remember details, but I saw a match at Eden with my cousin who was younger than me. He was supporting England since he loved Botham and Eden crowd ganged up on him. :(

 

Botham was really good for a few years - from his debut to about mid 80s. 

 

Stokes is a special allrounder, but I think Botham faced better attacks and was a better bowler in hey day.

The only world class attack in Botham’s time was the WI and to some extent Australia. Indian spinners in sc are a challenge. Botham sucked against WI. He did well against the other 2.

 

Even Pak had a great bowling attack late 80s onwards only after Botham’s peak.

 

Today look at the Indian bowling line up (spin and pace), Nzl attack (Boult,Southee, Ferguson etc) , SL (still competent enough to win vs Pak and SA), SA (Rabada and co). WI (decent), Pak (competent),Aus (Starc,Cummins etc). Even Afghan and Bangla have 1-2 world class bowlers.

 

Bowling quality now is leagues ahead of what it was in the 80s. May be not as good as what it was in 90s and early 2000s but way better than 80s list of swing trundlers or floaty traditional spinners.

Edited July 21, 2020 by maniac

[Mariyam]

On 7/20/2020 at 8:03 PM, Trichromatic said:

 

This chart caught my eye. This is taking the phrase "off the charts" quite literally. Some part of the curve is outside the chart!!

 

I initially thought you were talking about the good looking footballer. That guy who married the Spice Girl. But that guy is Beckham, not Botham.

I'm glad I kept it to myself.

[Deleted_User_1]

 

One thing is for sure. He has come of age and surely is the best allrounder of current times by a country mile. He is not only brute power. One thing you gotta love about the English. They love their cricket. Look how they flock to the cricket ground for test matches. We probably have not seen the same in India after the early 2000s. We love our I PEE L!

Edited July 26, 2020 by Audiophile