Batting when both McGrath and Warne are playing

[rtmohanlal]

55 minutes ago, zen said:

Talking about Kallis and Tendulkar:

 

 

was just wondering as to what actually is the  point of your stat filtrations of these sorts.

 

I would place another stats where Sachin towers Kallis in every sense.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;spanmax1=14+apr+2011;spanmin1=26+Nov+1992;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting  

 

a span of 263 inns where Sachin averaged almost 59 & scored  436 runs more than Kallis. Sachin's lowest average in any country is  44.66 where as Kallis averages  35 in 2 countries.

 

My point is that filtrations like your's( i mean stats in isolation)   don't  serve for any thing. It is just an analyst's conclusion taking  into account various factors that determines the end result. For instance Sachin is the best for me from the 90's batch depending on  several factors, For some other  person it might be   Lara or Ponting or some other batsman depending on his preference of weightages. 

[zen]

52 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

was just wondering as to what actually is the  point of your stat filtrations of these sorts.

 

Most people know about general things in cricket and have watched cricketers play, so these can allow to evaluate their performances relatively objectively

 

Let's say XYZ is my favorite player after watching his career. Many people would go on supporting XYZ as a great. However, I would ask is he really a great batsman? If many of the greats are alike, how do I seperate them? Which cricketers are better in this type of a situation?  And so on. Many times, I share my findings 

 

I am also a relatively neutral cricket fan (probably at the top of Maslow's Pyramid) so I can look into different perspective as well. I do not associate supporting cricketers with nationalism (esp. if it is the only avenue where one displays it). 

 

52 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

I would place another stats where Sachin towers Kallis in every sense.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;spanmax1=14+apr+2011;spanmin1=26+Nov+1992;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting  

 

a span of 263 inns where Sachin averaged almost 59 & scored  436 runs more than Kallis. Sachin's lowest average in any country is  44.66 where as Kallis averages  35 in 2 countries.

 

My point is that filtrations like your's( i mean stats in isolation)   don't  serve for any thing. It is just an analyst's conclusion taking  into account various factors that determines the end result. For instance Sachin is the best for me from the 90's batch depending on  several factors, For some other  person it might be   Lara or Ponting or some other batsman depending on his preference of weightages. 

 

Whatever the point may be. I will make a quick comment on your analysis, which does not tells me much: 

 

• For this type of analysis, you have taken selected period of Sachin's career and compared it with the whole career of Kallis (based on my quick look). If you took 80% of Sachin's career for e.g., you would need to take 80% of Kallis' too (as cricketers go through various stages). Then there is the factor of minnows (if I play more v BD and Zim, my avg could be higher), batting positions (in your data, Kallis has played 109 games at #4 w/ an average of 62), performance as an AR and so on. 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by zen

[Gollum]

4 hours ago, Laaloo said:

I always assumed you were a huge dravid fan for some reason. 

You didn't read his interview? 

[cricketfan28]

Data Science rocks!

[kaptaan]

This is all that matters 

[kaptaan]

Slight change in query - If you consider numbers in Australia 

 

Guess who is missing 

[kaptaan]

[kaptaan]

[rtmohanlal]

9 hours ago, zen said:

 

Most people know about general things in cricket and have watched cricketers play, so these can allow to evaluate their performances relatively objectively

 

Let's say XYZ is my favorite player after watching his career. Many people would go on supporting XYZ as a great. However, I would ask is he really a great batsman? If many of the greats are alike, how do I seperate them? Which cricketers are better in this type of a situation?  And so on. Many times, I share my findings 

 

I am also a relatively neutral cricket fan (probably at the top of Maslow's Pyramid) so I can look into different perspective as well. I do not associate supporting cricketers with nationalism (esp. if it is the only avenue where one displays it). 

 

 

Whatever the point may be. I will make a quick comment on your analysis, which does not tells me much: 

 

• For this type of analysis, you have taken selected period of Sachin's career and compared it with the whole career of Kallis (based on my quick look). If you took 80% of Sachin's career for e.g., you would need to take 80% of Kallis' too (as cricketers go through various stages). Then there is the factor of minnows (if I play more v BD and Zim, my avg could be higher), batting positions (in your data, Kallis has played 109 games at #4 w/ an average of 62), performance as an AR and so on. 

 

 

 

i have took 'selected period of Sachin's career' , but that period itself is enough to outdo entire Kallis' tally of runs. This is enough for me because there is a small matter of longevity. The more a batsman plays the more his average suffer, though a few exceptions are there.For instance ask Virat. Poor guy's average fell from 72 to a mere 36 with in a single series in NZL.That is how difficult it is to maintain  high standards thru out career.

Even if I took Sachin's  full career, his lowest average in any country is 40.  I give the maximum weightage to this uniformity of performance across all nations.  In the data I  gave, if i remove 'minnows+  border line minnow team' stats, it is Kallis' average that is going to get lower(keep in mind ZIM Sachin played was a lower ranked team only with Streak too in it  where as that Kallis played was a  border line minnow.  Hence I won't remove Sahin's  ZIM stats in that matter ) Again Kallis' avg: is a bit more inflated by  higher percentage of not outs. 

 

You have filtered Sachin's numbers vs 'Mcrath & Warne' . In the similar lines what about his avg:  vs ' Ambrose+Walsh+ Bishop combo' ?  . It is around 58. Against  'Walsh only' ? It is around 63.Not only that by another logic, Sachin's average vs Ambrose(greatest  of those 3 bowlers) is infinity  because Sachin never got out to Ambrose.Again what about Sachin's average vs Steyn ,another ATG bowler?   Sure it is muh higher than 50.

 

So ,all these factors count. Not your filtered  stats alone. And hence the meaninglessness  of your  'stats in isolation' filtration.

 

[Sooda]

On 8/29/2020 at 2:38 AM, zen said:

You make a lot of assumption. This is a discussion on "batting when both McGrath and Warne are playing". Almost everyone on the list is an accomplished player with good career highlights. Some players would be appreciated for their good performances, some pointed out for their average ones. 

 

If you want to point out or praise a player, feel free to do so but within the parameters of the topic (the title describes it). 

 

@Rasgulla  @coffee_rules

 

Dig a bit deeper and Dravids stats are boosted by that one series in 2001, in particular the 180.

 

Tendulkars are hit by being forced to play a test with an inured elbow in Nagpur in 2004; meanwhile he averages 46 in 1999/00 tour of Aus as captain of one of a terrible Indian touring team- a tour where Dravid and Ganguly struggled; and 50 in the historic 00/01 tour

 

KP is a genius but by the time he was hammering McWarne they were well into their mid 30's

 

 

[zen]

6 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

i have took 'selected period of Sachin's career' , but that period itself is enough to outdo entire Kallis' tally of runs. This is enough for me because there is a small matter of longevity. The more a batsman plays the more his average suffer, though a few exceptions are there.For instance ask Virat. Poor guy's average fell from 72 to a mere 36 with in a single series in NZL.That is how difficult it is to maintain  high standards thru out career.

Even if I took Sachin's  full career, his lowest average in any country is 40.  I give the maximum weightage to this uniformity of performance across all nations.  In the data I  gave, if i remove 'minnows+  border line minnow team' stats, it is Kallis' average that is going to get lower(keep in mind ZIM Sachin played was a lower ranked team only with Streak too in it  where as that Kallis played was a  border line minnow.  Hence I won't remove Sahin's  ZIM stats in that matter ) Again Kallis' avg: is a bit more inflated by  higher percentage of not outs. 

I am talking about creating some sort of uniformity. If you are taking selected parts of career of 1 player to compare with full career of other (however less), need Zim, etc., it shows who has better stats (and also not factoring in batting positions).  

 

6 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

ou have filtered Sachin's numbers vs 'Mcrath & Warne' . In the similar lines what about his avg:  vs ' Ambrose+Walsh+ Bishop combo' ?  . It is around 58. Against  'Walsh only' ? It is around 63.Not only that by another logic, Sachin's average vs Ambrose(greatest  of those 3 bowlers) is infinity  because Sachin never got out to Ambrose.Again what about Sachin's average vs Steyn ,another ATG bowler?   Sure it is muh higher than 50.

 

So ,all these factors count. Not your filtered  stats alone. And hence the meaninglessness  of your  'stats in isolation' filtration.

The thread is not on one player (Sachin). It is about batting performances when both Warne and McGrath are playing for Aus, one of the strongest teams of AT. 

Edited August 30, 2020 by zen