Bowling action: Brett Lee vs Sabir Khan

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

He is delaying the arm that is what is keeping it low ,as the rest of the body goes through the arm is kept locked in the low position  and then it is released.

It's reverse actually. It's the low arm that makes his action, makes him a slinger. Similar is the case with Shoaib and Mitch Johnson, both slingers too. 

[maniac]

Brett Lee was a supreme athlete. If not cricket he would still have been successful in some athletic endeavor. While this guy is decent and has nailed down the action, no matter how close or different he is, it will be difficult to sustain or reach that level as he doesn’t have the same built and physique.

 

Then again surprisingly our best fast bowling unit ever does has not have any natural  athletes- Shami,Bumrah,Bhuvi, Ishant are all not great athletes even though they have great skills with Umesh being the only exception and him being the last guy in the pecking order.

Edited September 9, 2020 by maniac

[rkt.india]

Even Shoaib Akhtar had left lateral flexion. His bowling arm should have been on red line but bowling over his left leg. Neither has braced front leg. Man had natural pace.

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

how is it reverse ,arm is held back thats whats keeps is low.

Because you can't hold back if it's not low. Holding back is the by product. Some people even here call Bumrah a slinger which he isn't as they have a very little idea about who is a slinger.  Bumrah is any way a hip dominant bowlers and hip dominants can never be slingers. All slingers are knee dominant bowlers. 5 of the fastest bowlers in history are slingers.

[rkt.india]

18 minutes ago, maniac said:

Brett Lee was a supreme athlete. If not cricket he would still have been successful in some athletic endeavor. While this guy is decent and has nailed down the action, no matter how close or different he is, it will be difficult to sustain or reach that level as he doesn’t have the same built and physique.

 

Then again surprisingly our best fast bowling unit ever does has not have any natural  athletes- Shami,Bumrah,Bhuvi, Ishant are all not great athletes even though they have great skills with Umesh being the only exception and him being the last guy in the pecking order.

McGrath wasn't a great athlete. Jimmy Anderson is. Steyn was average too.

[rkt.india]

 

He is potential India material.

[Suhaan]

42 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Even Shoaib Akhtar had left lateral flexion. His bowling arm should have been on red line but bowling over his left leg. Neither has braced front leg. Man had natural pace.

 

He too was knee dominant but i think he generated high pace from his hyper extension,powerful runup and very strong hip musceles even though he was knee dominant,so there is absence of sync which somewhat plagued his fitness

Yeah correctly lateral flexion added to his woes

Edited September 9, 2020 by Suhaan

[rkt.india]

32 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

The arm gets low for every one,how else will you turn your arm over.Sabirs arm also gets low like everyone ,but he doesn't hold it down /delay it for long enough.

Even Sabir holds his arm. He just doesn't take it low. See this pic. He holds the arm here. Brett Lee is about holding the arm low, not just holding the arm. Both Lee and Sabir are knee dominant bowlers.

 

I think what you are talking about isn't arm delay. Arm delay is this, the second pic.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

Arm delay is one of the most important attractor to generate pace and both knee and hip dominant bowlers can use it but holding the arm low is basically for knee dominants and the reason is to increase the time on backfoot contact while hip dominant bowlers have to get off their backfoot quickly and that's the reason they cannot hold their arm on backfoot contact for long. They have a short backfoot contact (BFC) time. Knee dominants have longer BFC time. Example of hip dominant bowlers is Jofra, Starc, Steyn, Bumrah, Saini. Example of knee dominants Wood, Shami, Umesh, Lockie, Lee, Akhtar, Tait, Naseem Shah, Ishant, Johnson, all slingers.

@MultiB48

[speedheat]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Sreesanth copied Dennis Lillie. I can say Sabir is much stronger than Brett Lee was at the same age. Check the above pictures of Sabir and Lee. Sabir has actually done quite a good job of copying Lee but couldn't grasp the main thing made Lee different than many other knee dominant bowlers. The thing is Brett Lee is a slinger, Sabir isn't. Sabir could not get that difference. Position of the bowling hand just before backfoot landing defines whether you are a slinger or not. Lee's bowling hand in the pic above is at his trousers' pocket which means he is a slinger. Sabir did not observe that. It looks a little thing but makes a huge difference. If the bowling hand before landing is at or near the pocket of the trouser, then the bowler is a slinger. Sabir isn't taking his bowling hand that low, so not able to copy him completely.

Sabris hand does get low near his pocket, not as much as Brett Lee  or Akhtar but it does get low.

I don't see this as huge difference  he can still be a slinger by bowling slightly round arm.

Dilhara fernendo, waqar etc  all had slinging actions with hand position  similar to that of sabirs.

Just replicate D. Fernandos action you will get the answer.

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by speedheat

[rkt.india]

13 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Sabris hand does get low near his pocket, not as much as Brett Lee  or Akhtar but it does get low.

I don't see this as huge difference  he can still be a slinger by bowling slightly round arm.

Dilhara fernendo, waqar etc  all had slinging actions with hand position  similar to that of sabirs.

Just replicate D. Fernandos action you will get the answer.

 

Round doesn't mean slinger.  Sabir holds his arm here, not near his pocket. Fernando wasn't a slinger in any way. He was a hip dominant bowler. Hip dominants can never be slingers. Waqar Younis also wasn't a slinger. He was knee dominant for sure but side-on round arm bowler, not a slinger. Round arm does not mean slinger. 

 

 

These are slingers, bowlers who hold their bowling arm near their pant pocket just on or before landing. Slingers can generate more pace than most due to long backfoot contact and the ability to use muscle power more efficiently.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by rkt.india

[maniac]

On a side note, whatever happened to the spinner  who used to have the same action as Murali?

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

On a side note, whatever happened to the spinner  who used to have the same action as Murali?

Banned for chucking.

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

 

His arm is clearly down ,you are posting an earlier frame.

Check this. This is what makes Brett Lee a slinger, not him. Same with Shoaib.

 

[rkt.india]

@MultiB48 Check this. All of them have low arm on landing but they all aren't slingers. See the bowlers Jofra, Aaron, Kartik Tyagi in the first line. They aren't slingers. Bowling hand position in the air before landing should be below waist too.

[rkt.india]

@MultiB48 see this too, Mitch Johnson here. He has low arm both in the air and on backfoot landing, first pic in the air. I hope I explained what slinger is. In Sabir's case in the pic you posted, he is rotating his arm and does not hold it there. He holds his arm at his midriff.

 

 

Sabir is holding his arm at his midriff when in the air and his arm goes down only for rotation and not for hold and sling.

Edited September 10, 2020 by rkt.india

[speedheat]

9 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Round doesn't mean slinger.  Sabir holds his arm here, not near his pocket. Fernando wasn't a slinger in any way. He was a hip dominant bowler. Hip dominants can never be slingers. Waqar Younis also wasn't a slinger. He was knee dominant for sure but side-on round arm bowler, not a slinger. Round arm does not mean slinger. 

 

 

These are slingers, bowlers who hold their bowling arm near their pant pocket just on or before landing. Slingers can generate more pace than most due to long backfoot contact and the ability to use muscle power more efficiently.

 

 

Where does Malinga holds it? Tait, adwards and young Akhtar?

Edited September 10, 2020 by speedheat

[rkt.india]

Here is an Indian slinger.

 

 

This was him once.

 

 

 

 

 

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Where does Malinga holds it? Tait, awards and young Akhtar?

Malinga, Akhtar, Tait are all side on bowlers. They hold their bowling behind them low. Sabir isn't a side-on bowler. He doesn't hinge back on landing. Key is holding the bowling arm lower than waist, near the pocket is a tip given to bowlers usually when they struggle. 

 

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

On the left side is the action of an international cricketer after he had played top class cricket for 8-10 years, on the right side is someone who is still in his formative years.

 

And to be honest does not look like this youngster has a repeatable action. Should not judge him from a 10 second footage on Instagram.