maniac Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 Just now, express bowling said: We need a combination of pace, brains and mental strength to produce a great pacer. Can't forget anything. yes but pace and skills can be taught And he is only what 18-19 but the temperament Is something that you need to have naturally.
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 139 k full ball by Tyagi hits Hetmeyer's pad Mosher 1
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 Just now, maniac said: yes but pace and skills can be taught And he is only what 18-19 but the temperament Is something that you need to have naturally. Genuine pace cannot be taught. Mosher and speedheat 1 1
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 Unnecessary slower ball by Tyagi ... And he got hit. Mosher 1
maniac Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 Just now, express bowling said: Genuine pace cannot be taught. true, however cricket or sport itself is a mental game, you can have all the skills in the world but don’t have temperament you won’t make it but if you have temperament you can maximize your skills even if they are limited. You are miss interpreting my post I guess. I never said he shouldn’t try bowling fast or doesn’t have the ability, his physique will only develop and he will add yards but the most heart warming thing for me is his temperament. That’s what sets him apart for me.
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 Tyagi gets Hetmeyer last ball with a full ball. Mosher 1
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, express bowling said: Genuine pace cannot be taught. I am actually not very sure of that.
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, maniac said: true, however cricket or sport itself is a mental game, you can have all the skills in the world but don’t have temperament you won’t make it but if you have temperament you can maximize your skills even if they are limited. You are miss interpreting my post I guess. I never said he shouldn’t try bowling fast or doesn’t have the ability, his physique will only develop and he will add yards but the most heart warming thing for me is his temperament. That’s what sets him apart for me. No. My point is that ... as we give chances to just 3 or 4 pacers to play for India, out of the 1000s vying for a spot ... we should be satisfied only if we get a pacer who has pace, bounce, accuracy, movement, brains as well as temperament. We should set the benchmark high. Mosher 1
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, express bowling said: Genuine pace cannot be taught. Imran Khan and Wasim Akram, both started off as military medium pacers.
maniac Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, express bowling said: No. My point is that ... as we give chances to just 3 or 4 pacers to play for India, out of the 1000s vying for a spot ... we should be satisfied only if we get a pacer who has pace, bounce, accuracy, movement, brains as well as temperament. We should set the benchmark high. no one is ready made with all those skills, and speaking of Tyagi he seems to have at least 4-5 of those 6 skills and hence he shoots up the pecking order.
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 Very low class from RR team. They didnt let Aaron complete his overs. He actually bowled the best of the lot. RAZPOR and Suhaan 2
rkt.india Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: I am actually not very sure of that. It's partially correct, partially wrong. A 130 bowler will never bowl 150 no matter how much work he does. You are born with those muscle fibers. But correct technique and training can increase your pace ceiling. Every bowler has that ceiling. A 130 bowler if trains well, improve of technical aspects, work on his athleticism can gain a few mph of pace but saying a 130 bowler will start bowling 150 that won't happen. Yes if you are 19 and bowling 140, it's possible you can get quicker and bowl 145-150 as your body matures but 140 at the age of 19 isn't your pace ceiling, it's your start where you can improve upon. A bowler can always improve his pace ceiling and that is what we call teaching pace. So pace can be taught but you can't turn an auto rickshaw into a Ferrari. Edited October 9, 2020 by rkt.india
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, rkt.india said: It's partially correct, partially wrong. A 130 bowler will never bowl 150 no matter how much work he does. You are a born with those muscle fibers. But correct technique and training can increase your pace ceiling. Every bowler has that ceiling. A 130 bowler if trains well, improve of technical aspects, work on his athleticism can gain a few mph of pace but saying a 130 bowler will start bowling 150 that won't happen. Yes if you are 19 and bowling 140, it's possible you can get quicker and bowl 145-150 as your body matures but 140 at the age of 19 isn't your pace ceiling, it's your start where you can improve upon. Not really. There are exercises for training fast twitch muscles. Correct biomechanics, technique and training can push your speed. The limit is only as much as the athlete thinks. Yes, maybe not 160, but a pacer can reach express pace with correct training. By express I mean 150+ to the range of 152/153ish.
rkt.india Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: Not really. There are exercises for training fast twitch muscles. Correct biomechanics, technique and training can push your speed. The limit is only as much as the athlete thinks. Yes, maybe not 160, but a pacer can reach express pace with correct training. By express I mean 150+ to the range of 152/153ish. It's not as simple. I know we can but modern research on fast bowling has given a lot of materials on this and who has what kind of muscle fibers depend on your neuro-type and your back foot dominance. It's actually very complicated and a big chapter in itself. I will give you an example, there are some bowlers who starts slowly pace wise and bowl quicker after they have bowled a few overs. Why is that? It's because how their muscle fibers work. Every individual has slow and fast twitch fibers but they work differently in different people. Those fast bowlers have slow fibers which activate first so they start slowly and then fast twitch fibers get activated once those slow fibers are exhausted. So the mechanism is to exhaust slow fibers to activate fast twitch fibers. These bowlers require lot of warmups. So to work on fast twitches, it's very important to determine what neuro-type a bowler. Every neuro-type works differently. There are 3 basic neuro-types. Neuro-type 1, 2 and 3. Neuro-type 3 will never become fast bowlers or even sports player. Neuro-type 1 and 2 have two subcategories, 1a, 1b, 2a and 2b. Edited October 9, 2020 by rkt.india
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: Imran Khan and Wasim Akram, both started off as military medium pacers. 1. Some pacers do not realize the potential they have as fast bowlers ... They may bowl within themselves for some time and then someone points out their potential and tweaks their run-up and action. And they start to bowl full tilt. 2. I have watched Akram from the beginning of his career. He was always sharp. But he did not bowl at full pace every over. Gavaskar was telling a story a couple of years back. It was 1986 and Akram was bowling. Gavaskar said to Imran after an over, " Who is this guy ? He has pace. " To which Imran replied, " But he wants to be a swing bowler ". And that has been the story with Akram. Obviously, as Akram became a man from a boy, he added some pace. But he was never military medium. 3. I have watched Imran bowl in the 1980s. Don't know what his pace was in the early 1970s, but it is said that he did add pace in the 2nd half of the1970s, most probably by improving his run up and action. But the ability to bowl quick was always there. But no one can turn a Chahar or a Bhuvi or a Md.Abbas or an Udana into genuine quicks Edited October 9, 2020 by express bowling Mosher 1
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 Just now, express bowling said: 1. Some pacers do not realize the potential they have as fast bowlers ... They may bowl within themselves for some time and then someone points out their potential. And they start to bowl full tilt. 2. I have watched Akram from the beginning of his career. He was always sharp. But he did not bowl at full pace every over. Gavaskar was telling a story a couple of years back. It was 1986 and Akram was bowling. Gavaskar said to Imran after an over, " Who is this guy ? He has pace. " To which Imran replied, " But he wants to be a swing bowler ". And that has been the story with Akram. Obviously, as Akram became a man from a boy, he added some pace. But he was never military medium. 3. I have watched Imran bowl in the 1980s. Don't know what his pace was in the early 1970s, but it is said that he did add pace in the 2nd half if the1970s, most probably by improving his run up and action. But the ability to bowl quick was always there. But no one can turn a Chahar or a Bhuvi or a Md.Abbas or an Udana into genuine quicks Imran was Military medium and Akram was medium pace. This notion that fast bowlers are born is absolutely incorrect. Its the same notion that INdians cant bowl fast because they dont eat beef!
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Rightarmfast said: Imran was Military medium and Akram was medium pace. I can't vouch for Imran as I have not watched him bowl at the beginning of his career. But I don't think even you have Akram was never medium pace every over. I have seen him bowl at the start of his career. In some overs he was sharp and in other overs he was medium -fast. 1 minute ago, Rightarmfast said: This notion that fast bowlers are born is absolutely incorrect. Its the same notion that INdians cant bowl fast because they dont eat beef! I have never seen a medium pacer being turned to a genuine fast bowler. I am talking about actually seeing and not stories of periods when I did not watch cricket. Mosher 1
maniac Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, express bowling said: But no one can turn a Chahar or a Bhuvi or a Md.Abbas or an Udana into genuine quicks Bhuvi did become a 140k bowler when he used to bowl at 125-130K at the start but in that process lost his swing. As far as bowlers like Abbas go, I would be weary of bowlers like Abbas and Amir bowling at 125-135 clicks than say Wahab Riaz and other phhhasht bowlers when our batsmen play against them. There is a place for every type of bowler, then it becomes his smarts as to how good he is in setting up a batsmen or keeping calm under pressure. Edited October 9, 2020 by maniac
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, maniac said: Bhuvi did become a 140k bowler when he used to bowl at 125-130K at the start but in that process lost his swing. You can add pace. Most pacers do so these days. A medium pacer can become fast-medium. Bhuvi became so in 2017 and 2018. And is back to medium pace now. 1 minute ago, maniac said: As far as bowlers like Abbas go, I would be weary of bowlers like Abbas and Amir bowling at 125-135 clicks than say Wahab Riaz and other phhhasht bowlers when our batsmen play against them. There is a place for every type of bowler, then it becomes his smarts as to how good he is in setting up a batsmen or keeping calm under pressure. In the post you quoted, I was not discussing whether a medium pacer has value or not. The issue under discussion in that post was whether a medium pacer can become a genuine fast bowler. Mosher 1
Recommended Posts