BacktoCricaddict Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Land revenue reforms leading to the growth of Mysore Silk Industry . Is this incorrect? Asking out of total ignorance: Where can one find accurate interpretations of the reasons for the establishment and success of the silk industry in Mysore? Edited November 20, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said: Is this incorrect? Asking out of total ignorance: Where can one find accurate interpretations of the reasons for the establishment and success of the silk industry in Mysore? very easy to connect as remote as these. This is the unscientific field of social sciences. You do a research paper that looks into some land revenue records changes of that time and you locate one record related to silk worm and associate it. Then your PhD guide or peer-review endorses it and lo behold a narrative is set. Peer-review of historical data is the most unscientific way of doing stuff Edited November 20, 2020 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: very easy to connect as remote as these. This is the unscientific field of social sciences. You do a research paper that looks into some land revenue records changes of that time and you locate one record related to silk worm and associate it. Then your PhD guide or peer-review endorses it and lo behold a narrative is set. Peer-review of historical data is the most unscientific way of doing stuff So, what evidence would one have that proves the opposite - that Tipu had no role to play in establishing the silk industry in Mysore? Here is my take: People are a mixed bag of characteristics and actions. A tyrannical, despotic king could also be one who started an industry that flourished and helped people. The good actions don't negate the bad, and vice-versa. So, the silk thing could be true, but it should not be used to glorify him. The tyranny is true, but it should not stop us from acknowledging the silk thing (if there is evidence for it) sans the glorification. Edited November 20, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: So, what evidence would one have that proves the opposite - that Tipu had no role to play in establishing the silk industry in Mysore? Here is my take: People are a mixed bag of characteristics and actions. A tyrannical, despotic king could also be one who started an industry that flourished and helped people. The good actions don't negate the bad, and vice-versa. So, the silk thing could be true, but it should not be used to glorify him. The tyranny is true, but it should not stop us from acknowledging the silk thing (if there is evidence for it) sans the glorification. Silk think can’t be proven with a record and narrative of today. It is a hogwash. NYtimes in 1935 was praising Hitler for his economic reforms and new world order. Do we praise Hitler with that record and set a narrative of his good deeds? We can’t take these accounts of Khilji or Tipu and whitewash their crimes. That is how you negate history. Edited November 20, 2020 by coffee_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPrabhzy Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Gollum said: The Congress are now openly paying tribute to a Tyrant ruler who carried out historical genocides of Hindus and destruction of temples... hum to chewtiya bethe hain na Gollum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Silk think can’t be proven with a record and narrative of today. It is a hogwash. NYtimes in 1935 was praising Hitler for his economic reforms and new world order. Do we praise Hitler with that record and set a narrative of his good deeds? We can’t take these accounts of Khilji or Tipu and whitewash their crimes. That is how you negate history. To praise and to acknowledge are two different things. You are extrapolating my point and putting up strawmen :-). From all accounts I have read so far (granted it's just 30 min of internet scouring, which is why I asked you for alternative sources), the Mysore silk industry had its origins during Tipu's reign. OK, that does not make him a hero. It is not grounds for glorification. It's just his job. But, if there is evidence of it, it also cannot be denied. It can just be stated matter-of-factly. Edited November 20, 2020 by BacktoCricaddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 3 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said: To praise and to acknowledge are two different things. You are extrapolating my point and putting up strawmen :-). From all accounts I have read so far (granted it's just 30 min of internet scouring, which is why I asked you for alternative sources), the Mysore silk industry had its origins during Tipu's reign. OK, that does not make him a hero. It is not grounds for glorification. It's just his job. But, if there is evidence of it, it also cannot be denied. It can just be stated matter-of-factly. What strawman? The attribution is “ his new land revenue system initiated the growth of Mysore Silk Industry”. That is such a disservice to JRD Tata and Dewans of Mysore. Esp Sir MV. Who went to rural areas and revived the the now famously known as the Mysore Silk Industry. As I said. They found a couple of historical records about his letters on sericulture and attribute the whole Mysore Silk Industry to him. Ghazni comes down 14 times to plunder Indian temples like Somnath and they normalize the tyranny with how hebuilt a great capital city of Ghazni. Who TF cares, while he LOOTED our temples. Same thing here with Tipu, his Islamic iconoclasm gets passed under the rug of great land revenue reforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 14 hours ago, coffee_rules said: What strawman? The attribution is “ his new land revenue system initiated the growth of Mysore Silk Industry”. That is such a disservice to JRD Tata and Dewans of Mysore. Esp Sir MV. Who went to rural areas and revived the the now famously known as the Mysore Silk Industry. As I said. They found a couple of historical records about his letters on sericulture and attribute the whole Mysore Silk Industry to him. Ghazni comes down 14 times to plunder Indian temples like Somnath and they normalize the tyranny with how hebuilt a great capital city of Ghazni. Who TF cares, while he LOOTED our temples. Same thing here with Tipu, his Islamic iconoclasm gets passed under the rug of great land revenue reforms. All of these can be simultaneously true: (1) Tipu was a cruel, tyrannical, despotic arse-hole. He must not be glorified in any way, and condemned at every opportunity for his savagery. (2) The Mysore silk industry started under Tipu. If the evidence points otherwise, this can be retracted. (3) Sir MV, JRD Tata and Dewans revived the flagging silk industry a 100 years after Tipu's reign. Ashte, guru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 55 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: All of these can be simultaneously true: (1) Tipu was a cruel, tyrannical, despotic arse-hole. He must not be glorified in any way, and condemned at every opportunity for his savagery. (2) The Mysore silk industry started under Tipu. If the evidence points otherwise, this can be retracted. (3) Sir MV, JRD Tata and Dewans revived the flagging silk industry a 100 years after Tipu's reign. Ashte, guru. Whenever we hear about Iconoclastic Muslim rulers , we hear about their revolutionary land revenue reforms and taxation, from Ghazni, to Ghori to Khilji and now to Tipu Sultan. Their allegiances lie outside of India to Turkish and Persian caliphate. So, I take their contributions to India with a ‘moote’ of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Stutter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Damn. That is chilling and horrific. Maniacal - perfect word to describe him. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, let me say this: Whether this was done to propagate a religion, or to expand a kingdom, or to quell tax protests, it would be equally chilling, horrific and maniacal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 6 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said: Damn. That is chilling and horrific. Maniacal - perfect word to describe him. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, let me say this: Whether this was done to propagate a religion, or to expand a kingdom, or to quell tax protests, it would be equally chilling, horrific and maniacal. Fair enough. Nobody is eulogizing ChikkaDevaraya wodeyar for his deeds, nor are they celebrating his birthday, unlike the Tiger of Mysore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Fair enough. Nobody is eulogizing ChikkaDevaraya wodeyar for his deeds, nor are they celebrating his birthday, unlike the Tiger of Mysore. That's a good point. While I was comparing deeds, I didn't think to compare the level of hero-worship of one vs the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 @Gollum Please change the name of the place to Mandya/Melkote . There is no place called Mandyam. Gollum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: @Gollum Please change the name of the place to Mandya/Melkote . There is no place called Mandyam. Changed the title, article said Mandyam that's why the mistake. Edited June 30, 2021 by Gollum coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) @coffee_rules In the first reply to OP even @diga inserted Mandyam Iyengars. You two Kannadigas sit down and sort it out. Don't blame an outsider for confusion over spelling of a region in your state Maybe the place is Mandya but people from there are Mandyans....like Mumbai/Mumbaikar, Amdavad/Amdavadi, Chennai/Chennaiite Edited June 30, 2021 by Gollum coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Desh badal raha hain speedheat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 4 hours ago, coffee_rules said: @Gollum Please change the name of the place to Mandya/Melkote . There is no place called Mandyam. "Mandyam" aiyengar is aiyengar sect that resides in Mandya/Melkote region. They are called Mandyam because they are originally immigrated from Tamil nadu and speak a dialect of Tamil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, urbestfriend said: "Mandyam" aiyengar is aiyengar sect that resides in Mandya/Melkote region. They are called Mandyam because they are originally immigrated from Tamil nadu and speak a dialect of Tamil. Ok, very surprised that I didn't know about Mandyam sect, I knew they came from TN region. I thought everybody was misspelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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