Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, ravishingravi said: This is not Ayn Rand. This is basic 101 economics. You can’t throw good money after bad money. Growth comes from value addition not farmers growing crops for MSP. MSP is protection not an incentive. Like I said agriculture nowhere in the world is based on Adam Smith models. It is not a supply and demand curve. I understand how growth happens but throwing half the population to wolves is not economic policy either. Till a transition path is clearly defined I am in favor of paying farmers not to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9zaesm Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Khota said: They should identify few crops and set an MSP which is valid for private companies too. Goverment needs to decide how much to grow and where to grow it. Even if that means paying not to grow. BJP has failed miserably in showing what the alternate path is. I understand it is impossible to sustain half the population in agriculture if they account for 15% of GDP but they should be shown an alternate path to economic freedom. Trust us your income will double in two years is neither data nor an economic policy. 1 . Where were the these protesting farmers all these years ? They could have very well planned this same protest all these years where nothing was done for them by the government . Let’s not even go into BJP Congress debate . They have complained all these years about not making money but never acted on it . They could have proposed what they require but didn’t . 2. For once the current government put forth these bills and passed in legal manner . Which we know and won’t state - it has been said many time and gov even willing to make amendments about MSP (minimum price ) not maximum . It will not go away . Mandi won’t go away . - they have given freedom to farmer which they didn’t have to sell outside mandi (which is a specific one according to where farm is located ) . Now if they wish they can sell outside state even if they get better price . So if you are happy with windows 98 and want to keep using it . Go thru local mandi . If you want progress you now have choice which you didn’t have . Since you were not allowed to sale outside mandi let alone state . - MSP is the minimum price and we have seen how BJP has always moved price higher than any other government . This is not progress for farmer or country this is to make sure farmers get minimum profit . If they are happy with it then tell me why were they been complaining about profit for years ? - Farmers think this is done to benefit Asia richest man ( let that sink in lol ) . If you believe in conspiracy then nothing can be done for you . Pretty sure chips are being implanted with covid vaccine as well lol . All in all it has been stated many times you can go on doing the lazy farming you got use to if you wish so . And this is just a start as stated by government . They want to provide equipment etc .. in coming future. why do they absolutely want laws repealed heck they are not even asking anything to change the agriculture system of the country . Even when all amendments/ written are being put forward . Just status quo and then what keep complaining the poor farmers or should we just dish out money . It would prolly also need to go to the right hand which is leading this protest . Any educated person can see this . Bringing this to the rest of the world is just mockery of this great nation . Social media is full of poor farmers so what do these poor farmers really want ? Well continue on how it has been since British era . Baffles me how people joining this circus cannot see or accept the truth . We have seen progress in every sector with current gov : infra , road , corruption but yet for the farmers Modi is doing it for the Ambani and adani of the world . I won’t even go into red Fort no matter or whom the culprit is . If Modi is your answer I guess he also has ppl in new York Khalistan rally and Gandhi statue vandalized . wake up ! If you don’t want progress let the ones who are willing to move forward have the choice !!!! You can stay and keep growing the same crop that’s just rotting with the gov . While the middleman is filling pockets including state government !!! "Farmers are out on the streets putting their lives at stake. Lakhs of farmers have lost their lives and the Centre is not talking about it, not doing justice. If farmers can sit for days in the open and protest in this bitter cold, can the Prime Minister not go there and meet them. Can his ministers not visit the farmers, talk to them and make a decision?" Badal said on Monday. - What is Modi supposed to do? make a decision while farmers don’t want to negotiate all they want is law repealed . Is that called negotiating ? Edited February 2, 2021 by 9zaesm urbestfriend, Yoda-esque and coffee_rules 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, 9zaesm said: 1 . Where were the these protesting farmers all these years ? They could have very well planned this same protest all these years where nothing was done for them by the government . Let’s not even go into BJP Congress debate . They have complained all these years about not making money but never acted on it . They could have proposed what they require but didn’t . 2. For once the current government put forth these bills and passed in legal manner . Which we know and won’t state - it has been said many time and gov even willing to make amendments about MSP (minimum price ) not maximum . It will not go away . Mandi won’t go away . - they have given freedom to farmer which they didn’t have to sell outside mandi (which is a specific one according to where farm is located ) . Now if they wish they can sell outside state even if they get better price . So if you are happy with windows 98 and want to keep using it . Go thru local mandi . If you want progress you now have choice which you didn’t have . Since you were not allowed to sale outside mandi let alone state . - MSP is the minimum price and we have seen how BJP has always moved price higher than any other government . This is not progress for farmer or country this is to make sure farmers get minimum profit . If they are happy with it then tell me why were they been complaining about profit for years ? - Farmers think this is done to benefit Asia richest man ( let that sink in lol ) . If you believe in conspiracy then nothing can be done for you . Pretty sure chips are being implanted with covid vaccine as well lol . All in all it has been stated many times you can go on doing the lazy farming you got use to if you wish so . And this is just a start as stated by government . They want to provide equipment etc .. in coming future. why do they absolutely want laws repealed heck they are not even asking anything to change the agriculture system of the country . Even when all amendments/ written are being put forward . Just status quo and then what keep complaining the poor farmers or should we just dish out money . It would prolly also need to go to the right hand which is leading this protest . Any educated person can see this . Bringing this to the rest of the world is just mockery of this great nation . Social media is full of poor farmers so what do these poor farmers really want ? Well continue on how it has been since British era . Baffles me how people joining this circus cannot see or accept the truth . We have seen progress in every sector with current gov : infra , road , corruption but yet for the farmers Modi is doing it for the Ambani and adani of the world . I won’t even go into red Fort no matter or whom the culprit is . If Modi is your answer I guess he also has ppl in new York Khalistan rally and Gandhi statue vandalized . wake up ! If you don’t want progress let the ones who are willing to move forward have the choice !!!! You can stay and keep growing the same crop that’s just rotting with the gov . While the middleman is filling pockets including state government !!! First - I have family members who voted for Modi and know people in farming. As much as the law it is the way it was passed is what made people furious. They did not consult any farm organization and bunch of career bureaucrats made it. these are people who run the country but have grand total of zero hours of farming experience. I am not a Modi hater. i as a matter of fact like quiet a few things he has done and is a genuinely a likable person but he rushed it. Then the BJP made it a religious affair and started exploiting it along the fault lines of the society. Hindu vs Sikhs Jatts vs Gujjars Farmers vs Arthiyas We are talking about people who make 5000 rs pm. They need empathy and compassion, not the free market model they have. I am the biggest proponent of free market but they need to first go after PSU and their pensions rather than farmers. Getting back to these laws my personal opinion is they should not ask for a repeal but compromise. I think Modi/Shah/Tomar will listen. But I am a different type of person and no one will listen to me. And getting back to Gandhi my family has a saying that you can critisize Nehru, Indira, vaypayee, Shastri, Manmohan but no one India has the right to critisize Mahatma Gandhi. That is how strong I feel about the man. I have no time or sympathy for anyone who vandalizes his statue. It serves no purpose and proves how stupid people are. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Khota said: Lot of small time farmers cant afford laboreres. You have lot of land holding and not typical. What does your family think of MSP? I was talking about 60 hours a week work which isn't true. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9zaesm Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Khota said: First - I have family members who voted for Modi and know people in farming. As much as the law it is the way it was passed is what made people furious. They did not consult any farm organization and bunch of career bureaucrats made it. these are people who run the country but have grand total of zero hours of farming experience. I am not a Modi hater. i as a matter of fact like quiet a few things he has done and is a genuinely a likable person but he rushed it. Then the BJP made it a religious affair and started exploiting it along the fault lines of the society. Hindu vs Sikhs Jatts vs Gujjars Farmers vs Arthiyas We are talking about people who make 5000 rs pm. They need empathy and compassion, not the free market model they have. I am the biggest proponent of free market but they need to first go after PSU and their pensions rather than farmers. Getting back to these laws my personal opinion is they should not ask for a repeal but compromise. I think Modi/Shah/Tomar will listen. But I am a different type of person and no one will listen to me. And getting back to Gandhi my family has a saying that you can critisize Nehru, Indira, vaypayee, Shastri, Manmohan but no one India has the right to critisize Mahatma Gandhi. That is how strong I feel about the man. I have no time or sympathy for anyone who vandalizes his statue. It serves no purpose and proves how stupid people are. I do admit they lacked communication , this was the negative about this issue but the government has said it multiple time you can continue on they way you want with mandi . modi does know quite well about farming he has done this in the past for gujurat: https://www.forbesindia.com/article/india-budget-2010/how-did-gujarat-become-a-farming-paradise/11322/1 other points you made , I am happy you acknowledge all that . I do not believe BJP has made it a religious affair : every article and speeches of Modi I have seen he stops at ppl putting up religious flags doesn’t mention sikhs. I think you need to concentrate on words of Modi then media . Indian media being a circus doesn’t help any of it . Then add the opposition . But we do have to accept the protest has been hijacked in some manner . I will not believe till proven guilt farmer leader or government in on it . The point remains the same you are here to protest new laws . Give your demands and concerns work on resolving the issue rather than repeal laws that do represent progress . urbestfriend and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 42 minutes ago, 9zaesm said: 1 . Where were the these protesting farmers all these years ? They could have very well planned this same protest all these years where nothing was done for them by the government . Let’s not even go into BJP Congress debate . They have complained all these years about not making money but never acted on it . They could have proposed what they require but didn’t . 2. For once the current government put forth these bills and passed in legal manner . Which we know and won’t state - it has been said many time and gov even willing to make amendments about MSP (minimum price ) not maximum . It will not go away . Mandi won’t go away . - they have given freedom to farmer which they didn’t have to sell outside mandi (which is a specific one according to where farm is located ) . Now if they wish they can sell outside state even if they get better price . So if you are happy with windows 98 and want to keep using it . Go thru local mandi . If you want progress you now have choice which you didn’t have . Since you were not allowed to sale outside mandi let alone state . - MSP is the minimum price and we have seen how BJP has always moved price higher than any other government . This is not progress for farmer or country this is to make sure farmers get minimum profit . If they are happy with it then tell me why were they been complaining about profit for years ? - Farmers think this is done to benefit Asia richest man ( let that sink in lol ) . If you believe in conspiracy then nothing can be done for you . Pretty sure chips are being implanted with covid vaccine as well lol . All in all it has been stated many times you can go on doing the lazy farming you got use to if you wish so . And this is just a start as stated by government . They want to provide equipment etc .. in coming future. why do they absolutely want laws repealed heck they are not even asking anything to change the agriculture system of the country . Even when all amendments/ written are being put forward . Just status quo and then what keep complaining the poor farmers or should we just dish out money . It would prolly also need to go to the right hand which is leading this protest . Any educated person can see this . Bringing this to the rest of the world is just mockery of this great nation . Social media is full of poor farmers so what do these poor farmers really want ? Well continue on how it has been since British era . Baffles me how people joining this circus cannot see or accept the truth . We have seen progress in every sector with current gov : infra , road , corruption but yet for the farmers Modi is doing it for the Ambani and adani of the world . I won’t even go into red Fort no matter or whom the culprit is . If Modi is your answer I guess he also has ppl in new York Khalistan rally and Gandhi statue vandalized . wake up ! If you don’t want progress let the ones who are willing to move forward have the choice !!!! You can stay and keep growing the same crop that’s just rotting with the gov . While the middleman is filling pockets including state government !!! I think that summarizes the problem for the farmers. Yes they are allowed to keep on using Windows 98 but Microsoft wont support it anymore, And there in lies the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 24 minutes ago, rkt.india said: I was talking about 60 hours a week work which isn't true. The ones who dont have big farms and cant get laborers. Some of them also have to do second jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9zaesm Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I would love to get number of cash being sent from Canada Australia US for this protest . Don’t get me wrong I have no problem ppl donating for a cause they believe but at the end of the day the longer it last the more farming leaders are filling their pockets and again the real poor farmer is just being used once again . The reason why I am saying this goes back to my initial question why haven’t they done something similar all these years of suffering ? Why today ? The answer is who will lose the most in all of this : middleman ... coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9zaesm Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Khota said: I think that summarizes the problem for the farmers. Yes they are allowed to keep on using Windows 98 but Microsoft wont support it anymore, And there in lies the problem. Why would you say that when the government said it will keep supporting and not only that are willing to give it in writing ....point being the government is banking upon seeing success of other farmers more will get on it . coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 14 minutes ago, 9zaesm said: I do admit they lacked communication , this was the negative about this issue but the government has said it multiple time you can continue on they way you want with mandi . modi does know quite well about farming he has done this in the past for gujurat: https://www.forbesindia.com/article/india-budget-2010/how-did-gujarat-become-a-farming-paradise/11322/1 other points you made , I am happy you acknowledge all that . I do not believe BJP has made it a religious affair : every article and speeches of Modi I have seen he stops at ppl putting up religious flags doesn’t mention sikhs. I think you need to concentrate on words of Modi then media . Indian media being a circus doesn’t help any of it . Then add the opposition . But we do have to accept the protest has been hijacked in some manner . I will not believe till proven guilt farmer leader or government in on it . The point remains the same you are here to protest new laws . Give your demands and concerns work on resolving the issue rather than repeal laws that do represent progress . Modi is a very smart man and does care. He does not make these statements but he also fails to condemn what the local goons do on the ground. This is an issue of inequitable distribution of wealth not Khalistan. Sikhs future is integrated with India so do not raise this bogeyman. For that to continue is on him. There is a lot of resentment between haves and have nots. There is a genuine fear that India is heading towards oligarchy with a new gilded age. I was in Mathura once and sat on the floor with a farmer and ate lunch with him. He served me sattu. Half the people on this forum would look the other way. The poverty these people face and still carry on is unbelievable. And that man was working every bit as hard as anyone else but that is all he had. It is about these people who should never be left behind is the main issue. Once again I would negotiate the law but it serves no one if these laws are competely repealed. There needs to be a common ground about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, 9zaesm said: I would love to get number of cash being sent from Canada Australia US for this protest . Don’t get me wrong I have no problem ppl donating for a cause they believe but at the end of the day the longer it last the more farming leaders are filling their pockets and again the real poor farmer is just being used once again . The reason why I am saying this goes back to my initial question why haven’t they done something similar all these years of suffering ? Why today ? The answer is who will lose the most in all of this : middleman ... Middleman days are over and they know it too. My uncle is a proverbial middle man but not in farming and compalints about Amazon has taken his business away. Anyway he is middle class and I dont care. it is the common man on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, 9zaesm said: Why would you say that when the government said it will keep supporting and not only that are willing to give it in writing ....point being the government is banking upon seeing success of other farmers more will get on it . And that comes to trust issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9zaesm Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 14 minutes ago, Khota said: I think that summarizes the problem for the farmers. Yes they are allowed to keep on using Windows 98 but Microsoft wont support it anymore, And there in lies the problem. In any case good to see you are still willing to look at the flip side of the story. My best mates are Punjabi and they won’t even look at Bloomberg or other good media article to understand . I can tell you I have watched many videos and read available info from the point of view of the protest and have yet to find a point that wasn’t covered in the 11 round of talks . In n e case I do hope for a resolution ASAP because I do not like how it’s been portrayed once again about religion etc ... I stand firm on Modi has a vision to bring India forward and believe he can do so . coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 9 hours ago, Khota said: All 100% should be helped. I am tired of this divide and conquer stuff you have learned. Are you saying that govt should act like market? and buy everything from all the farmers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9zaesm Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, Khota said: And that comes to trust issues. You have answered the question so we should repeal the law because we don’t trust the government . Its like refusing a promotion because you think the boss has an hidden agenda . Lets imagine it being actually true . Well why not protest after the fact . You have clear evidence to fight the good fight . I think we will leave it at that ... coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, urbestfriend said: Are you saying that govt should act like market? and buy everything from all the farmers? Government should provide them with some support till they transition to modern economy. They cannot be left to the wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, 9zaesm said: You have answered the question so we should repeal the law because we don’t trust the government . Its like refusing a promotion because you think the boss has an hidden agenda . Lets imagine it being actually true . Well why not protest after the fact . You have clear evidence to fight the good fight . I think we will leave it at that ... I am not in favor of repealing laws. My experience tells me you can get a better deal by negotiating. This I think will be settled by ballot box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 39 minutes ago, Under_Score said: Freelance journalists being charged by the ruling party for showing the reality of the present situation...what Democracy is this?...sigh It is so surprising not one person in this forum condems the attack on free press. Disgusting. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Khota said: First - I have family members who voted for Modi and know people in farming. As much as the law it is the way it was passed is what made people furious. They did not consult any farm organization and bunch of career bureaucrats made it. these are people who run the country but have grand total of zero hours of farming experience. I am not a Modi hater. i as a matter of fact like quiet a few things he has done and is a genuinely a likable person but he rushed it. Then the BJP made it a religious affair and started exploiting it along the fault lines of the society. Hindu vs Sikhs Jatts vs Gujjars Farmers vs Arthiyas We are talking about people who make 5000 rs pm. They need empathy and compassion, not the free market model they have. I am the biggest proponent of free market but they need to first go after PSU and their pensions rather than farmers. Getting back to these laws my personal opinion is they should not ask for a repeal but compromise. I think Modi/Shah/Tomar will listen. But I am a different type of person and no one will listen to me. And getting back to Gandhi my family has a saying that you can critisize Nehru, Indira, vaypayee, Shastri, Manmohan but no one India has the right to critisize Mahatma Gandhi. That is how strong I feel about the man. I have no time or sympathy for anyone who vandalizes his statue. It serves no purpose and proves how stupid people are. Me, me, me...As if we care about your personal agendas...Tell any solution to the poor farmer's problem which will benifit 100% of the farmer, other than coming up with some shitty arguments like Modi, shah, ambani, adani. Clarke and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Khota said: They should identify few crops and set an MSP which is valid for private companies too. Goverment needs to decide how much to grow and where to grow it. Even if that means paying not to grow. BJP has failed miserably in showing what the alternate path is. I understand it is impossible to sustain half the population in agriculture if they account for 15% of GDP but they should be shown an alternate path to economic freedom. Trust us your income will double in two years is neither data nor an economic policy. Government has announced MSP for 22 crops and said it will continue. You want MSP for all crops? beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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