These Top order Collapses in last 2 series have been blessing in disguises

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Not sure he is a #5. We need a solid #4 in case of 50/2 types. He should open just like in WC or come in at #6 like Dhoni. We can probably have to promote Pandya to #5. 

 

if we can trust him to open then 4 shud be easy for him at 50/2 as solid batsman coz ball is comparivetly old . Also his s/r in middle in phenomenal as compare to top in ODI when he starts to bat like rahane

[Adamant]

So Kl Rahul aged 28 can't adapt to middle order and obviously isn't good enough to replace Dhawan so what should we do.? 

He himself is responsible for his performances and the fact is he hasn't performed up to the standards set for him. He is 28 not 18, if he fails in 2021 too he should be out of the ODI team no doubt about it. 

 

Bahut chances mil chuke hai inhe taailunt par 

[Adamant]

12 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

if we can trust him to open then 4 shud be easy for him at 50/2 as solid batsman coz ball is comparivetly old . Also his s/r in middle in phenomenal as compare to top in ODI when he starts to bat like rahane

Yes, he bats like a sheep when he is promoted to the opening spot.

[ShoonyaSifar]

2 minutes ago, Adamant said:

So Kl Rahul aged 28 can't adapt to middle order and obviously isn't good enough to replace Dhawan so what should we do.? 

He himself is responsible for his performances and the fact is he hasn't performed up to the standards set for him. He is 28 not 18, if he fails in 2021 too he should be out of the ODI team no doubt about it. 

 

Bahut chances mil chuke hai inhe taailunt par 

Why is it that relatively inexperienced players ard expected to be flexible while our captain can't adapt to any position other than number 3. Same with one if our star openers. That sets the tone. The day seniors shows flexibility, others will start taking cue as well.

 

In any case, Rahul has settled into the middle order and is even keeping wickets to suit team requirements. Has had a decent run as a MO batsman since the WC. 80(52), 88*(64), 4(8), 112(113), 12(15), 76(66), 5(12). 4 excellent knocks in 7 innings. This after hitting 3 100s as an opener since being asked to open during the WC. Could have done better vs Aus but that's okay. That's not what you call _struggling to adapt'.

 

Ideally he should be opening. We need big opening partnerships. Our last 4-5 100+ partnerships have been with Rahul opening. Instead of backing Dhawan, TM should be backing Rahul. Give him the license to play freely like he has done in T20Is. But then friendships matter more than team interest.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 hours ago, Adamant said:

So Kl Rahul aged 28 can't adapt to middle order and obviously isn't good enough to replace Dhawan so what should we do.? 

He himself is responsible for his performances and the fact is he hasn't performed up to the standards set for him. He is 28 not 18, if he fails in 2021 too he should be out of the ODI team no doubt about it. 

 

Bahut chances mil chuke hai inhe taailunt par 

 

47 ki avg pe sawaal banta bhi nahin

 

KL at 5 avg 52 with an outstanding s/r of 113 

 

S/r wo cheez jo babar azam ke fans ko pata nahin 

[Adamant]

34 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

47 ki avg pe sawaal banta bhi nahin

 

KL at 5 avg 52 with an outstanding s/r of 113 

 

S/r wo cheez jo babar azam ke fans ko pata nahin 

Ok he has done well in this role so why are people saying that he isn't suited to bat in the middle order. 

According to me the only places available for Rahul are no. 4 or 5. He needs to bat there, as simple as that. 

 

Also i totally oppose posters who are saying that Kohli should change his position. He is the best batsman, Rohit and Kohlis places are fixed. No questions asked. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Ok he has done well in this role so why are people saying that he isn't suited to bat in the middle order. 

 

everyone will hve diff views why wud u take everyone srsly

 

3 minutes ago, Adamant said:

According to me the only places available for Rahul are no. 4 or 5. He needs to bat there, as simple as that. 

 

Also i totally oppose posters who are saying that Kohli should change his position. He is the best batsman, Rohit and Kohlis places are fixed. No questions asked. 

 

even i dont want kohli or rohit to change their position but i want them change their approach ....update themselves a bit

[Adamant]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

everyone will hve diff views why wud u take everyone srsly

 

 

even i dont want kohli or rohit to change their position but i want them change their approach ....update themselves a bit

The next time our top 3 comes out to bat, i am damn sure they will change their approach bcoz now they have a much better lower and middle order. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

18 minutes ago, Adamant said:

The next time our top 3 comes out to bat, i am damn sure they will change their approach bcoz now they have a much better lower and middle order. 

 

they cant , kohli as captain goes for safety as even seen with RCB . Also like everyone they also have their limitations . Its a mindset problem in whole system, many new players who will come wud suffer from same

[Adamant]

13 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

they cant , kohli as captain goes for safety as even seen with RCB . Also like everyone they also have their limitations . Its a mindset problem in whole system, many new players who will come wud suffer from same

Lets see, you can't predict this based on rcb, after ab at no. 4 there's no proper batsman in RCB. 

According to me they will change their approach now, lets see

[Jodonjo]

19 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

they cant , kohli as captain goes for safety as even seen with RCB . Also like everyone they also have their limitations . Its a mindset problem in whole system, many new players who will come wud suffer from same

Atleast in that first odi in sydney kohli seemed to be proactive....

[littlemaster1982]

23 hours ago, sandeep said:

There is a clear and obvious reason for that.  Tactics and batting strategy chosen by the team leadership - Virat Kohli.  And he does that knowingly.  Because the current strategy provides justification and excuses for the top 3 batsmen to bat selfishly in the name of "setting up the platform".  And Virat can continue to execute his "risk-free" ODI batting style, and continue to rack up individual milestones of "greatness". 

 

Finally, someone calling out Kohli's risk-free batting being detrimental to team's scoring rate. This approach ensures he gets some runs under his belt even when he is not in elements, but doesn't translate into bigger scores for his team since the batting revolves around him. 

[Lone Wolf]

21 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Lets see, you can't predict this based on rcb, after ab at no. 4 there's no proper batsman in RCB. 

According to me they will change their approach now, lets see

Mooen Ali used to come at 5 in some games & with Dube,  Sundar the depth was there.  VK's slow batting actually costed them the Top 2 finish. 

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, littlemaster1982 said:

 

Finally, someone calling out Kohli's risk-free batting being detrimental to team's scoring rate. This approach ensures he gets some runs under his belt even when he is not in elements, but doesn't translate into bigger scores for his team since the batting revolves around him. 

You misunderstand me - I am not criticizing his personal batting style - it is effective and is useful for the team to have a reliable machine for the middle overs who is so competent and consistent. 

 

The problem is that batting template for the TEAM innings, is that the top 3 are  given excessive leeway to "get set" and aim to "go big" because supposedly that will help the team.  This means that you are giving away without trying, the option to attack the bowling team up front in the 1st PP.  India consistently settle for 45/0 in the first 10 overs.  Regardless of conditions.  That score leaves the team total trajectory in a state where breaching 330 or 340 at the end of 50 overs becomes almost impossible.   Those 25 runs not only reduce the eventual total, but they also influence the scoring patterns in the middle overs, because a successful 'attack' in the 1st 10, not only adds those extra runs, but also sets the momentum, and forces the bowling team to use up its best bowling resources, use its secondary plans, etc in an effort to stop the bleeding. 

 

The rationale behind such a conservative style is that if you aim for 350+ then you are risking collapse - which is true to a point - England are likely to have one game every 8-10 games, where they collapse to around 230 and lose the game.  The second argument for this was that given India's effective bowling unit with Bumrah, Bhuvi, and the 2 wicke-taking wrist spinners), India did not need to press harder for the high-end par scores.  With Bhuvi injured, and chahal getting slaughtered on Aussie concrete, this argument doesn't hold water.  And we have seen other instances where opponents are able to game-plan with short boundaries, and flat tracks that take our spinners out of the equation.  

 

 

[littlemaster1982]

Got your point! What I meant is, ODI game has evolved so much, that the main batsman of the team can't play such risk-free cricket all the time.  Especially when you miss someone like Rohit at the top. Kohli's game works when the other batsman take care of hitting and increase the scoring rate. This is how it was during Kohli's peak (2014-2017). Now the game has evolved so much where 350 is considered a chaseable target, but we are still stuck at scoring at 4.5 RPO for most part of the innings. 

 

He has been getting these less than run a ball 50's since WC '19, which he is failing to convert into big 100s, then there's no point in this approach.

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, littlemaster1982 said:

Got your point! What I meant is, ODI game has evolved so much, that the main batsman of the team can't play such risk-free cricket all the time.  Especially when you miss someone like Rohit at the top. Kohli's game works when the other batsman take care of hitting and increase the scoring rate. This is how it was during Kohli's peak (2014-2017). Now the game has evolved so much where 350 is considered a chaseable target, but we are still stuck at scoring at 4.5 RPO for most part of the innings. 

 

He has been getting these less than run a ball 50's since WC '19, which he is failing to convert into big 100s, then there's no point in this approach.

Even England carry Joe Root who has completely modeled his ODI batting tactics on Kohli.  Kohli the batsman is an asset to any modern ODI team, and a high value one at that.  His consistency, and ability to score at 5+ RPO nearly risk-free, along with the ability to step it up opportunistically is very, very good.  

 

Your frustration with the Indian team's underwhelming batting performance as a unit is leading you to under-rate his batting.  He is to be blamed - as a captain for allowing this problem - one that is known since  before the 2015 WC - one that I have been moaning about since  then - and just allowing this problem to fester.  But his batting isn't part of the problem - it can be part of the solution.  Provided its deployed correctly, instead of the rest of the team and tactics designed to prioritize his and the top 3's individual glories.

[sandeep]

12 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

This level of common sense is not evident in both Rohit and Kohli

This is completely inaccurate.  

 

Rohit's SR after he crosses 50 is world-class.  After crossing 100, there is nobody other than ABDV who can even come close to him.  

 

Claiming Kohli doesn't have the "sense" to know when the requirement to step up scoring is - that is infantilely foolish.  They are professional cricketers, its not that they do not know - they are making different choices and analysis, and sometimes execution doesn't come off.  

 

Gora Aussies "unselfish", brown Indians are stupid, lack common sense and are "selfish" - this is what you seem to be claiming.  Its just ridiculous.