Great Cricket Strategists/ Tacticians X1

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

On a serious note. 

1.Shane Warne

2.Ravi Ashwin

3.Graeme Swann

4 Actually all great spinners were good tacticians.

5.Glenn Mcgrath

6.Patrick Cummins

7Jasprit Bumrah

8.Ms Dhoni(only in lois) 

9.Chappell(elder)

10.Hadlee

 

Ashwin is a smart guy but overdoes the "tactics" as leader.  Love him as a bowler, but he is not leadership material tbh.  

[zen]

25 minutes ago, maniac said:

I am surprised you didn’t pick Cronje. Most out of the box thinker in the Crowe mould and have seen more of his captaincy than Crowe’s

 

 Limited the list to 3 .... All those on my list are excellent performers as individual players too -> Imran and Crowe were of course among the very best in class, while Taylor is among good openers (monumental performances in Eng and good performances WI where he opened in early to mid 90s, a strong WI side lost its first test series after a long long time to Aus in 1995)

Edited December 3, 2020 by zen

[sandeep]

26 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Lol 

If you can't be confident after talking the wickets he did when can you ?

One man's torture is another man's education 

High risk ? All the illusion of theatre , his trade mark was setting batsmen up that's not high risk that's calm composed tactician 

 

Warne was a smart bowler, but is a terrible commentator.  Once you listen to him more than a couple of times, it becomes obvious how repetitive and silly his "insights" start becoming.  

[sandeep]

11 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

You give MI team to Kohli and he too will win cups for you.

Disagree.

 

Strongly.

 

 

[Tattieboy]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Warne was a smart bowler, but is a terrible commentator.  Once you listen to him more than a couple of times, it becomes obvious how repetitive and silly his "insights" start becoming.  

I think that's why the mute button was invented on the remote control lol . 

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

comparing IPL to international cricket goes to show how much of a smart thinker you are

and you seem to be one of those snobs who still refuse to accept that the world has moved on and IPL now has relevance only behind test cricket and WC’s in the 2 formats.

 

IPL has a lot more stakes,money,pressure and accountability and provides more livelihood/employment and generates more viewership and buzz than 90% of international cricket or higher.

 

Look at how many people care about Nzl-Wi or Eng-SA on this forum which filled with cricket nerds and hardcore cricket fans. I don’t know if you are new but you should definitely check out this forum when IPL is on.

 

Stop putting down your own product that rules cricket. Are you an Aussie by the way?

[zen]

IMO, I do not think any Ind cricketer should be on the global list. They are among the most personal stat focused cricketers that I have come across (relatively speaking). In Indian context, they can be relatively good (for a lack of strong competition) but at a global level, they are probably not up to the mark 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by zen

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

I have to laugh and nothing else really.

 

IPL = world class events. Okay, great.

 

Steve Smith's clutch performances in Ashes, world cups and international games is less important than IPL because it provides more "entertainment" right?

Let's rate Rohit's 200 in useless bilateral tours same as Steve Smith's in worldcups and ashes.

Yes Steve Smith is a great batsman and clutch but last time I checked my own thread we are discussing captaincy and strategies and tacticians. Smith’s strategy seemed to have got him banned for a year though

 

Warner has scope but again he is one of those guys who leads by example rather than any out of the box thinking.

Edited December 3, 2020 by maniac

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

I have to laugh and nothing else really.

 

IPL = world class events. Okay, great.

 

I personally do not care for IPL as much as I do for banner test series, World Cups etc.  But to deny that the IPL is a world class event?  That's just silly churlishness if not ignorance.

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Smith’s strategy seemed to have got him banned for a year though

 

Banjo what a line.  

[sandeep]

26 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

where players like Smith, Maxwell etc. never took seriously

you couldn't be more wrong.  IPL is deadly serious business.  Its life-changing for the players who participate in it.  Its serious enough that a cricket icon like ABDV prioritizes it over rest of cricket.  You are projecting your own personal opinions into the supposed attitudes of professional players who get paid millions.  Your assumptions have zero facts to support it.

[zen]

9 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

I am pointing at your argument that somehow IPL is more clutch then international games. As if to say, it's more stressful in a T20 tamasha league than international games where careers are on the line.

IMO, IPL is the key event after T20 WC in that format. It is rated higher than bilaterals in both T20s and LOIs 

 

Tests =/> ICC World events > IPL > bilaterals (esp. if not b/w the top full strength sides) 

Edited December 3, 2020 by zen

[maniac]

7 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Steve Smith, Maxwell etc. failed in IPL. Yuvraj failed in IPL but these guys won world cups for their teams. What did Rohit and Kohli do?

 

 

Steve Smith was crying after he lost the IPL final a couple of years back. He might have had a poor season this year but usually he is pretty solid.

 

Maxwell is hit or miss even in internationals. A player with half a brain would have finished the 3rd odi and won it for Aus, those kind of players are always lottery, kinda like Afridi who might have won a few important games here and there as well. No one calls Afridi a master strategist lol

Edited December 3, 2020 by maniac

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

Ricky Ponting, Steve Smith or even Graeme Smith would never do selfish things like this.

This guy has serious "safedi ki chamkaar" syndrome.  The rank selfishness exhibited by Aussies is covered up by his blindspot.  

 

Ponting was Aus captain when he allowed Hayden to put up his 380 against a hapless zimbabwe who were beyond defeated already.  And then proceeded to join the vociferous Aussie criticism of Brian Lara who 'took Hadyen's record away' by "scoring a selfish 400 against England".

 

Ponting and other Aussies have been selfish lots of times.  But they hype and hagiographic perception of the "all conquering" all winning Aussies of that era is such that folks thing that everything those guys did was great, admirable and worth respecting and copying.  

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, BlueBlood said:

WI team under Gary Sobers/Clive Lloyd but those days were different as you didn't have such a heavy home surface advantage like it was under Ponting.

WI under Lloyd/Viv. You had home advantage then, even worse was home umpiring bias. At least during Ponting's reign we had neutral umpiring, much much fairer. That WI side went unbeaten for 15 years in test cricket, GOAT team. 

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

What matters is clutch innings where a performance is do or die.

 

That's where selfishness comes in. If you are telling Rohit and Kohli to play slowly without risking their wicket, you are giving away your strategy to all teams to save up best bowling options for the death and middle overs.

 

Plus, you are giving them credit when they score a slow hundred like Sachin's 100th 100 which cost us the game against bangladesh and blame the bowlers or lower order for not delivering.

 

That's not call tactics that's called selfishness.

 

Dhoni's massive amount of not outs is testament to this.

 

Most of those not outs did not win the games while chasing. You will never see a not out from clutch players like this ever.

you sound like a pimply 17 year old who thinks he knows it all.  

 

Ponting test average in India was in single digits over his first 4 or 5 tours to India.  Where was his "clutch" do or die performance then? 

 

Let's leave this discussion then, no point to it.

Edited December 3, 2020 by sandeep

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

At least during Ponting's reign we had neutral umpiring, much much fairer.

 

Someone dig up that image of Ponting raising his finger to tell the umpire what decision to give in that 2007-08 series....

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

Show me proof that Rohit is a "great" tactician

Never claimed this, so why do I have to "show proof".  Go tilt at windmills elsewhere kid.

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

Because you are arguing for Rohit Sharma being a great tactician.

Where do you come with this silly conclusion? 

 

5 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

Just because you are a moderator doesn't mean I have to be scared

 

No you definitely do not.  

[Gollum]

24 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Someone dig up that image of Ponting raising his finger to tell the umpire what decision to give in that 2007-08 series....

Yeah Aussies did get more decisions in their favor, in fact there was even a study by some ECB coaches which supported this perception. Used to bully the umpires, more advanced appealing techniques, also were thugs, hated that team with passion.  

 

However the umpiring in 70s/80s would have been torture for visiting sides. Sunny had a lot to say about umpiring in 1982 Pak, 1985 Aus, even 1979 Eng despite Eng having comparatively fairer umpires. WI managed to stay unbeaten for 15 years away, some achievement, even their series loss in NZ (1980) was courtesy local umpiring. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Gollum