This victory is another example of the mantra "Nobody is irreplaceable"

[sandeep]

44 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Pandya will never be good enough to be third seamer, he should try to become good enough to be no6  and fourth seamer. 

As an accused Pandya-backer  (and guilty), I agree.

[putrevus]

53 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

 

We literally said the same thing about Jadeja with the bat. Will never be a batsman...

 

Pandya has the potential to be a stokes. Ben stokes averages in the 30s with both bat and ball. In a 5 man attack he is the perfect third seamer bowling 12 overs a day in tests and batting at 8.

No Pandya does not have that potential to be Stokes. Jadeja has 3 triple 100s in FC cricket and he is a gun test bowler in sub continent conditions.  So Jadeja will be sure walk into the team just as a bowler in the team in subcontinent conditions and as a lone spinner in overseas conditions.Batting which Jadeja provides was a bonus till now. It is yet be seen if Jadeja can be long term no6.

 

Pandya is not even a patch on Jadeja. he is not required in Indian conditions and unless he becomes good enough in FC cricket to show he can score runs till then he should be kept away from test cricket.

Edited December 29, 2020 by putrevus

[ViruDilSeKhelo]

Next game should bring in Rohit/Shaw for Agarwal (nice flat pitch) and Rahul for Vihari. I am not sure about Yadav's replacement and have no faith in Saini and maybe Kuldeep would be an excellent pick at the SCG and also add some batting - 20 odd runs and partnership with the middle order.

[putrevus]

33 minutes ago, sandeep said:

As an accused Pandya-backer  (and guilty), I agree.

Pandya to be long term test player has to improve his FC batting.Once he does that he will become like gold. But age is not on his side he is already 27, Jadeja started very early in his career so he had time on his side.Plus Jadeja is a spinner unlike Pandya.

[gattaca]

Just make Rahane captain he seems to like the pressure and performs better. I like his aggressive approach when total is low and passive when you need to put up a big score unlike a certain individual named kohli.  Kohli consistently makes poor decisions and no thought process around selections. Just looking at practice match one can easily say Gill was better. Everyone in ICF knew it but somehow he misses it I guess it can happen when you dont create leaders around you. Shastri is bad no question about that. Any captain should create leaders around him kohli miserably fails at this.  

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Pandya to be long term test player has to improve his FC batting.Once he does that he will become like gold. But age is not on his side he is already 27, Jadeja started very early in his career so he had time on his side.Plus Jadeja is a spinner unlike Pandya.

Look, Pandya is already a gun white ball player, and adds tremendous value by being that rare commodity that India lacks - a lower order power hitter who can hit all types of bowling, even high quality, for boundaries and sixes.  

 

Is he capable of effective test match batting? I believe he is.  His bowling is always going to be 6th bowler level, but that can add value by providing rest to the primary bowlers and the odd wicket.  But he doesn't need to be a high class test batsman to be a valuable Indian team member.  The beauty of having such a strong team on the bowling side is that if our batting is clicking, we can afford to try out Pandya in tests when the situation, condition and fitness calls for it.

 

Think of Sehwag - the Indian team gambled on him as a test opener, because they had the strength and confidence of the big 4 in the middle order.  Twenty years, prior, a Sandeep Patil could have been a big hit if the team was strong enough around him to carry him through inconsistency.  But it wasn't.  

 

When you have world-class bowlers like Bumrah, Shami, Ashwin, operating, even a honest part-time option like Pandya can pick up wickets because batsmen are looking for release and end up taking risks against him - a la Moeen Ali.  

 

Pandya may not be that great a test player - and he isn't proven to be so far - but he doesn't have to be, given the strength of the unit.  And because of his tool-kit offering the 4th or 3rd pacer option, he may get to be that keystone that allows the Indian team to play both Ashwin and Jaddu confidently in conditions where without a pace-bowling batting option like him, they wouldn't otherwise.  That's his value proposition.

[The Great Punjab]

Don't forget this is the 2nd Test. India is always playing catchup and gets better as the tour progresses and uses the first Test as the 'warmup' matches they should be having prior to the actual series.

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Look, Pandya is already a gun white ball player, and adds tremendous value by being that rare commodity that India lacks - a lower order power hitter who can hit all types of bowling, even high quality, for boundaries and sixes.  

 

Is he capable of effective test match batting? I believe he is.  His bowling is always going to be 6th bowler level, but that can add value by providing rest to the primary bowlers and the odd wicket.  But he doesn't need to be a high class test batsman to be a valuable Indian team member.  The beauty of having such a strong team on the bowling side is that if our batting is clicking, we can afford to try out Pandya in tests when the situation, condition and fitness calls for it.

 

Think of Sehwag - the Indian team gambled on him as a test opener, because they had the strength and confidence of the big 4 in the middle order.  Twenty years, prior, a Sandeep Patil could have been a big hit if the team was strong enough around him to carry him through inconsistency.  But it wasn't.  

 

When you have world-class bowlers like Bumrah, Shami, Ashwin, operating, even a honest part-time option like Pandya can pick up wickets because batsmen are looking for release and end up taking risks against him - a la Moeen Ali.  

 

Pandya may not be that great a test player - and he isn't proven to be so far - but he doesn't have to be, given the strength of the unit.  And because of his tool-kit offering the 4th or 3rd pacer option, he may get to be that keystone that allows the Indian team to play both Ashwin and Jaddu confidently in conditions where without a pace-bowling batting option like him, they wouldn't otherwise.  That's his value proposition.

I don't believe he is good enough other than hitting odd boundaries here and there. He did score  some runs in odis and t20s let us see if he can do this consistently for large sample size first before making him anything in test cricket.

 

Sandeep Patil was never good enough player to begin with,even if he had all the batting talent around him.  Sehwag was world class batsmen and maybe best ever player of spin in Indian team's history in Asian conditions.So equating Sehwag to Pandya in anything is ridiculous.

 

Sehwag did not succeed because he had strong middle order, he succeeded because he was that talented, especially in Subcontinent conditions. There is no need for guy like Pandya unless he becomes no6 overseas conditions.Pandya is not needed in Indian conditions at all till Ashwin and Jadeja are there.

 

In short there is no need to force feed Pandya into test team.Let him do well in T20s and Odis.

[sandeep]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't believe he is good enough other than hitting odd boundaries here and there. He did score  some runs in odis and t20s let us see if he can do this consistently for large sample size first before making him anything in test cricket.

 

Sandeep Patil was never good enough player to begin with,even if he had all the batting talent around him.  Sehwag was world class batsmen and maybe best ever player of spin in Indian team's history in Asian conditions.So equating Sehwag to Pandya in anything is ridiculous.

 

Sehwag did not succeed because he had strong middle order, he succeeded because he was that talented, especially in Subcontinent conditions. There is no need for guy like Pandya unless he becomes no6 overseas conditions.Pandya is not needed in Indian conditions at all till Ashwin and Jadeja are there.

 

In short there is no need to force feed Pandya into test team.Let him do well in T20s and Odis.

You have completely missed my point about less than great players being able to contribute disproportionately greater than their individual talent would otherwise allow for, based on the team strength, context and conditions.  

 

But that's ok. Its sort of expected from you.  Sometimes folks fall into the trap of talking at someone, instead of with them.

[New guy]

On 12/29/2020 at 8:44 PM, sandeep said:

Just like in the ODI and T20 setup - the problem for India is not availability of capable talent - its about getting selection right and giving the players the platform to succeed.  

 

Hate to be cynical and all 'gossipy' sounding, but for the last few years, I have repeatedly had the feeling that selection policies have been Machiavellian especially in LOI batsmen, to delay/avoid the emergence of young marketable talent who can threaten to establish themselves as a bonafide batting 'star'.  Because advertising $$$ are always after the youth market, and the 'next young big thing' is always more attractive than the established 'older' one.  

Which is why the biggest star should also not be the captain. We would have seen this in the 90s too if Sachin had a different personality and refused to budge.