This victory is another example of the mantra "Nobody is irreplaceable"

[G_B_]

I remember back in the late 00s the debate on forums was, how will India ever replace the likes of Sachin Dravid VVS and Ganguly in the middle order. The general answer was it would be a downhill slide for India. Then where was a period post 2011 when many people said that India would never be number 1 again. Our greats were aged and Sehwag Gambhir who were meant to carry forward India lost form.

 

Yet here we are today yet again after a famous win having lost the toss, our best batsman, one second best bowler in shami and another bowler in Umesh during the match. Jadeja who was once the butt of jokes for scoring a "300" is now looking as one of our better frontline batsman.

 

The truth is we have not really replaced the middle order of the 00s. What has happened is another aspects of the Indian game have compensated. In India likes of Ashwin and Jadeja become proper allrounders and there is batting depth. Our pace bowling is probably the best it has ever been making us competitive overseas. We have two reliable spinners. 

 

I hope the message is clear to everybody. Including Kohli and Rahane. Kohli as captain needs to do the right thing and resign to focus on his batting. Rahane and captaincy seem to agree with bat as well. Though sample size is small. But we should not tolerable another extended slump even with Rahane. He is 32 and probably given his fitness has another 3-4 years in him from a physical POV. Selectors need to be bold enough to make these calls. India as a country has enough depth.

 

 

[tweaker]

If we win the remaining test and with that the series as well, with young players ie Gill, Siraj,Saini,Pant would the senior players can be automatic choice when they come back.

 

If Siraj and Saini does well in the next 2 test can they be benched when Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav returns

 

 

[G_B_]

Pace bowling does not worry me...we need solid middle order batsman who average atleast 40 across the years home or away.

[ShoonyaSifar]

Especially on captaincy, the TINA factor which kept Dhoni (and off late Kohli) in the saddle for donkey's years is buried once and for all.

 

Rahane has got two more tests now to build a solid CV of his own. Irrespective of how we do in the next two tests, on what grounds can Kohli continue as the captain after he comes back?

[diga]

11 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

Pace bowling does not worry me...we need solid middle order batsman who average atleast 40 across the years home or away.

and a solid wicket keeper

[G_B_]

What i liked about Rahane was, he allowed the most experienced bowlers to set their fields, obviously there was a conversation but likes of Ashwin did what they wanted. As long as it worked Rahane was ready to step back.

 

Even with Gill today, I noticed Rahane constantly chatting with him. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

17 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

What i liked about Rahane was, he allowed the most experienced bowlers to set their fields, obviously there was a conversation but likes of Ashwin did what they wanted. As long as it worked Rahane was ready to step back.

 

Even with Gill today, I noticed Rahane constantly chatting with him. 

And the way he handled the run out situation in the 1st innings. Put Jaddu at ease as he walked back. Contrast that with how Kohli reacted in the 1st test and how it negatively impacted the entire team, especially Rahane.

 

 

[sandeep]

4 hours ago, G_B_ said:

Pace bowling does not worry me...we need solid middle order batsman who average atleast 40 across the years home or away.

Just like in the ODI and T20 setup - the problem for India is not availability of capable talent - its about getting selection right and giving the players the platform to succeed.  

 

Hate to be cynical and all 'gossipy' sounding, but for the last few years, I have repeatedly had the feeling that selection policies have been Machiavellian especially in LOI batsmen, to delay/avoid the emergence of young marketable talent who can threaten to establish themselves as a bonafide batting 'star'.  Because advertising $$$ are always after the youth market, and the 'next young big thing' is always more attractive than the established 'older' one.  

[Sandeep99]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Just like in the ODI and T20 setup - the problem for India is not availability of capable talent - its about getting selection right and giving the players the platform to succeed.  

 

Hate to be cynical and all 'gossipy' sounding, but for the last few years, I have repeatedly had the feeling that selection policies have been Machiavellian especially in LOI batsmen, to delay/avoid the emergence of young marketable talent who can threaten to establish themselves as a bonafide batting 'star'.  Because advertising $$$ are always after the youth market, and the 'next young big thing' is always more attractive than the established 'older' one.  

Ironically a young Kohli was given more chances and a place in the World Cup team and batted ahead of the likes of Yuvraj and Dhoni. Just a pity that humans are so selfish and want to bite the very hand that feeds.

[putrevus]

Great talent will always be irreplaceable. They have not replaced that batting talent of 2000s, you just have Kohli as all format player. It is just bowling attack has improved leaps and bounds.Bowling is carrying the team if they had any batting talent they  would be one of the all great teams.Aussies dropped catches every where 

 

Where are talented batsmen.Gill might be the next best talent on view. We have seen Shaw has some serious technical issues.Who are those great talents who have been knocking on doors in last five years.

[G_B_]

But surely thats the point, the system in place is robust enough to produce talent. This does not mean talent is like for like replacement talent. The difference in fielding for the 00s side and the then aus side was very big. I would say on par the first two tests fielding is equal(ly bad) for both sides. I.e nobody has a distinct advantage in field.

 

My hope is indias long hail woes overseas are sorted by a pandya being third seamer.

 

There was a period post McGill n Warne that Australians did not produce a good spinner. Now they have an ever improving Lyon and a few good Loi leggies. Back then people said that Warne was one off and Aus would never have a good spinner.

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

Pandya will never be good enough to be third seamer, he should try to become good enough to be no6  and fourth seamer. Aussies don't have Warne, to equate Warne with Lyon is completely wrong.WI have still not replaced their 1980s fast bowling attack or teams.

 

Warne is one off talent who comes once in a century.Some players are just irreplaceable , but teams move on and find other ways to win.India is just forming fast bowling culture, we all have to hope this becomes a tradition and we start producing fast bowlers with low 20 averages on a regular basis.Without the fast bowlers there is no team.We need more Bumrahs.

[beetle]

6 hours ago, tweaker said:

If we win the remaining test and with that the series as well, with young players ie Gill, Siraj,Saini,Pant would the senior players can be automatic choice when they come back.

 

If Siraj and Saini does well in the next 2 test can they be benched when Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav returns

 

 

Fast bowlers is not a problem. Have all of them around and rotate to prevent injury .Play the youngsters with the seniors.Give them experience and guidance.

 

Shami ,Umesh ,Ishant ,bhuvi are all in the same age gp . They get injured and have just a few more years. 

[G_B_]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Pandya will never be good enough to be third seamer, he should try to become good enough to be no6  and fourth seamer. Aussies don't have Warne, to equate Warne with Lyon is completely wrong.WI have still not replaced their 1980s fast bowling attack or teams.

 

Warne is one off talent who comes once in a century.Some players are just irreplaceable , but teams move on and find other ways to win.India is just forming fast bowling culture, we all have to hope this becomes a tradition and we start producing fast bowlers with low 20 averages on a regular basis.Without the fast bowlers there is no team.We need more Bumrahs.

 

We literally said the same thing about Jadeja with the bat. Will never be a batsman...

 

Pandya has the potential to be a stokes. Ben stokes averages in the 30s with both bat and ball. In a 5 man attack he is the perfect third seamer bowling 12 overs a day in tests and batting at 8.

[Cricketics]

Ashwin and Rahane both were under scanner and both were criticized by fans for their past performances. Ashwin shouldn't have been picked was the common sentiment among many because of his poor performances in the past in Australia. The team management backed both of them and they are the ones who made quality difference. 

 

So as bad as the management is for not backing youngsters, they also deserve credit for showing faith in Ashwin and Rahane which many fans did not and they are the ones who have been all over Australia. So credit where its due. 

 

I think all need to be transparent here. 1-1 series now and we need to back other guys also now like Aggarwal. It will help us. We can't, just can't throw Aggarwal like this. 

[G_B_]

And Re windies. I think its about several factors. Demography being the key. Wi have a net talent pool of 2 million males under the age of 18. Their most athletic are attached to other sports.

 

In an era of professionalism infrastructure and disipline matters the most. This is why nz is thriving and teams that relied on natural talent like wi and pak are faltering in test cricket. A format that needs most investment in infra and discipline.

 

India have a good combo of demography and upcoming infra. Our system will produce talent

 

 

 

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Great talent will always be irreplaceable. They have not replaced that batting talent of 2000s, you just have Kohli as all format player. It is just bowling attack has improved leaps and bounds.Bowling is carrying the team if they had any batting talent they  would be one of the all great teams.Aussies dropped catches every where 

 

Where are talented batsmen.Gill might be the next best talent on view. We have seen Shaw has some serious technical issues.Who are those great talents who have been knocking on doors in last five years.

The "great man" savior theory is for talent deficient teams and systems.  For deeper stronger systems, we need to have a team first mentality.  And then when a superstar comes along, we treat him the same way as the other members of the team - put him in optimal positions to succeed - in pursuit of team cause. Not individual landmarks and achievement or 'greatness'.  

 

Virat's captaincy reign has seen the repeated dousing of potentially talented bright lights, instead of protecting them from the winds of chaos and maximizing their contribution potentials.  

 

You have a mental block in seeing this gapingly obvious hole in Virat's captaincy resume.  And I am not interested in "forcing" you to acknowledge it.  It is what it is.

[Cricketics]

11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

The "great man" savior theory is for talent deficient teams and systems.  For deeper stronger systems, we need to have a team first mentality.  And then when a superstar comes along, we treat him the same way as the other members of the team - put him in optimal positions to succeed - in pursuit of team cause. Not individual landmarks and achievement or 'greatness'.  

 

Virat's captaincy reign has seen the repeated dousing of potentially talented bright lights, instead of protecting them from the winds of chaos and maximizing their contribution potentials.  

 

You have a mental block in seeing this gapingly obvious hole in Virat's captaincy resume.  And I am not interested in "forcing" you to acknowledge it.  It is what it is.

 

 

I agree with what you say, many fans can be over protective. I have seen many fanboys over the years on ICF and its fine to call a spade a spade. Virat has been a shyt captain many times and i have called for his head in ODI many times now.

 

However, I hope we all stay transparent here. As shyt has Virat been, he is the one who backed Rahane, and Ashwin like i pointed above. We have to give Shastri and him some credit because fans did not want Rahane and definitely did not want Ashwin until very recently. Both these guys won us the game last match.

 

 

I think good cricket discussions happen when fanboys as well as hatred towards a player or management is kept outside so there is a room for proper discussion.

 

 

Rahane has been a brilliant captain in the 2nd test, and new ideas and his calm leadership which hasn't been seen from Virat for a while has worked wonders. But we must credit the management for showing faith in both Ashwin and Rahane, the two seniors who might have been sitting in India due to their poor performance either at home or consistent lackluster bowling figures overseas.

 

If Rahane wins this series for India or india draws this series and he is scoring runs, I think he can be a permanent test captain too for India. We don't need Virat as captain.

 

Infact our obsession with who is captaining should go. As long as team wins. Hopefully fans stop taking too much pride in their fav captains, it starts with Kohli, Dhoni fans most who have turned into fanboys.

 

Two cents. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

ill say better mantra is - its about team not individuals

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ill say better mantra is - its about team not individuals

For fans, I say take a quick look at my signature