IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[singhvivek141]

12 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

I don't normally like to watch CSK win but that 2018 final where Watson took apart both him and Sandeep Sharma was quite gratifying. 

Unfortunately, the non-performers like Kaul, Sandeep, Unadkut will continue to horrify us season after season no matter how much they suck.
Our current players, IPL mgmt, selectors...all of them are hell bent on playing these trundlers, who don't even have a secondary skill like Thakur, Chahar to justify their place.

[singhvivek141]

13 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Watching Pandya bowl today makes me question his role as an all rounder for team India.

 

Take him in the squad but as a captain and/or a lower order hitter.

Don't have much expectations with him as a bowler, he has started bowling again after 2-3 years and hence there will be ups and downs.
As a bowler, he is better than Venkatesh or Shivam Dubey (who are his direct competition as no 6). 

[singhvivek141]

20 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Talent too because he has to put a lot of effort to bowl 140 which is possible to do for four overs but not 20 overs a day. You need bowlers with effortless pace like Umran, Prasidh, Kuldeep, Kartik, even Mohsin. Avesh has turned out to be a taller version of Ashok Dinda. Doesn't have the effortless pace 

Bhai, effortless pace is an advantage, but it doesn't mean a bowler will be able to sustain pace throught the day. Jofra vs Wood is a prime example.

Mark Wood bowls 150k with lot of effort, he even said sometime back that he has to thrust every inch of his body to generate that pace, while likes of Jofra does it easily.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2019/06/11/mark-wood-have-nearly-break-back-get-fast-jofra/

However, we have seen that Jofra looses his intensity many times specially in tests. He at times bowls at 130-135k as well with no effort from his side. While Mark tries to push his body no matter what format he is playing.

[Suhaan]

42 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Don't have much expectations with him as a bowler, he has started bowling again after 2-3 years and hence there will be ups and downs.
As a bowler, he is better than Venkatesh or Shivam Dubey (who are his direct competition as no 6). 

Even if he gives 2 overs in t20s and 4-6 in odis,he walks into the team with his batting

[Jay]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Unfortunately, the non-performers like Kaul, Sandeep, Unadkut will continue to horrify us season after season no matter how much they suck.
Our current players, IPL mgmt, selectors...all of them are hell bent on playing these trundlers, who don't even have a secondary skill like Thakur, Chahar to justify their place.

Exactly I don't mind trundlers who can bat and atleast have decent swing etc. But no batting or even fielding skill and being a trundler is n absolute no.

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Bhai, effortless pace is an advantage, but it doesn't mean a bowler will be able to sustain pace throught the day. Jofra vs Wood is a prime example.

Mark Wood bowls 150k with lot of effort, he even said sometime back that he has to thrust every inch of his body to generate that pace, while likes of Jofra does it easily.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2019/06/11/mark-wood-have-nearly-break-back-get-fast-jofra/

However, we have seen that Jofra looses his intensity many times specially in tests. He at times bowls at 130-135k as well with no effort from his side. While Mark tries to push his body no matter what format he is playing.

 

 

All of the above are true.

 

However, Avesh falls in a 3rd category ... has to put in a lot of effort to generate 140 k+ and loses intensity and pace often enough.

 

He picked qualities from both Wood and Archer ... but the worst qualities. 

 

 

[Suhaan]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Unfortunately, the non-performers like Kaul, Sandeep, Unadkut will continue to horrify us season after season no matter how much they suck.
Our current players, IPL mgmt, selectors...all of them are hell bent on playing these trundlers, who don't even have a secondary skill like Thakur, Chahar to justify their place.

Unadkat only got few chances this season for MI where he sucked

Kaul got his chance in business end

If BCCI put emphasis on making rewarding pitches for pacers,that will be good

A good part of this IPL was played on spicey pitches,loved the start most as it looked quite spicy

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Suhaan

[Suhaan]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

He picked qualities from both Wood and Archer ... but the worst qualities

[rollingstoned]

We have to keep in mind that the bar has been raised significantly to play for India as a pacer now. Guys who would have walked into previous Indian sides but won't right now as the crown jewel in our attack is up there with the best bowlers in the world and there are many who can get it upto 140 and bowl there regularly while presenting a threat. The kind of bowlers we need and will play shall belong to 3 categories. 

1) Bowlers who have pace and can bowl in all conditions and formats because of their skill level allowing them to take the pitch out of the equation. Batting ability is thus something that is not a factor for them but a bonus if they are capable of chipping in. They shall be backed because of their ceiling and the amount of strings they have to their bow even if form nay not be great. Bumrah, Siraj and Shami belong in this category though clearly all 3 are not necessarily of the same calibre or at their best currently. 

2) Horses for courses. These can be death over specialists or swing bowlers who will suit certain specific conditions particularly in red ball cricket. Batting is a bigger requirement for them as their lack of potency in all conditions and lower ceiling means there can be questions over their place in the xi. Harshal, Umesh, Natarajan, Bhuvi, Arshdeep, Shardul, D Chahar are in this category.

3) These are younger, relatively untested bowlers who have a specific strength - speed or consistent steep bounce - or potential ability addressing traditional problem areas for us who could prove to be massive assets down the road. Depending on how things go they could enter the first category. Umran, Prasidh and Tyagi belong in this category. Kuldeep sen may or may not. 

 

We will have those who are not quite In one of these 3 above namely bowlers who are not elite tier as far as promise goes but could be solid performers (Dayal, Mohsin, Avesh,Mavi, khaleel) and batting all rounders - even if wannabe - like Pandya, Dube, V Iyer and V. Shankar who might make the team for balance but more or less this is the blueprint we shall follow if we stick to the template we have seemingly followed the last 5-6 years imo. People can feel free to add /disagree/ correct/ make changes. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by rollingstoned

[Jay]

34 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

We have to keep in mind that the bar has been raised significantly to play for India as a pacer now. Guys who would have walked into previous Indian sides but won't right now as the crown jewel in our attack is up there with the best bowlers in the world and there are many who can get it upto 140 and bowl there regularly while presenting a threat. The kind of bowlers we need and will play shall belong to 3 categories. 

1) Bowlers who have pace and can bowl in all conditions and formats because of their skill level allowing them to take the pitch out of the equation. Batting ability is thus something that is not a factor for them but a bonus if they are capable of chipping in. They shall be backed because of their ceiling and the amount of strings they have to their bow even if form nay not be great. Bumrah, Siraj and Shami belong in this category though clearly all 3 are not necessarily of the same calibre or at their best currently. 

2) Horses for courses. These can be death over specialists or swing bowlers who will suit certain specific conditions particularly in red ball cricket. Batting is a bigger requirement for them as their lack of potency in all conditions and lower ceiling means there can be questions over their place in the xi. Harshal, Umesh, Natarajan, Bhuvi, Arshdeep, Shardul, D Chahar are in this category.

3) These are younger, relatively untested bowlers who have a specific strength - speed or consistent steep bounce - or potential ability addressing traditional problem areas for us who could prove to be massive assets down the road. Depending on how things go they could enter the first category. Umran, Prasidh and Tyagi belong in this category. Kuldeep sen may or may not. 

 

We will have those who are not quite In one of these 3 above namely bowlers who are not elite tier as far as promise goes but could be solid performers (Dayal, Mohsin, Avesh,Mavi, khaleel) and batting all rounders - even if wannabe - like Pandya, Dube, V Iyer and V. Shankar who might make the team for balance but more or less this is the blueprint we shall follow if we stick to the template we have seemingly followed the last 5-6 years imo. People can feel free to add /disagree/ correct/ make changes. 

Perfectly summarised. Mohsin deserves to be higher in category 2 though along with prasidh etc. Don't forget some young dudes like hangeraker, vats, sabir, niikhil kohli are coming up too ans many of them are rapid as he'll.

[singhvivek141]

So final match for RR and CSK in league stage
1) RR still going with McCoy, no Kuldeep Sen.
2) No chance for Hangargekar from CSK. They are juggling with their Rayudu's, Dubey's and Uthappa's. 

[Lone Wolf]

With SRH out would like to see Tyagi Umran Sushant Mishra all three in a single game.  It will make up for some viewing.  Sushant to me is miles better investment than Farooqi..

[Mosher]

16 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

So final match for RR and CSK in league stage
1) RR still going with McCoy, no Kuldeep Sen.
2) No chance for Hangargekar from CSK. They are juggling with their Rayudu's, Dubey's and Uthappa's. 

This is what Dhoni said at the toss "Rajvardhan Hangargekar has the pace but he needs to be given enough time to groom and improve in certain areas."

 

 

[singhvivek141]

12 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

With SRH out would like to see Tyagi Umran Sushant Mishra all three in a single game.  It will make up for some viewing.  Sushant to me is miles better investment than Farooqi..

SRH's season this year will remain a dream of unfulfilled promises.
They had all the talent in their hands, and they just messed it up royally.

[singhvivek141]

3 minutes ago, Mosher said:

This is what Dhoni said at the toss "Rajvardhan Hangargekar has the pace but he needs to be given enough time to groom and improve in certain areas."

 

 

THis year was his best chance, next year Deepak C will occupy the no 8.
CSK should exchange him with the likes of Sandeep Sharma or Sid Kaul.

[Ankit_sharma03]

This is why i dnt want prasidh in t20 squad. He has too much downside as a t20 bowler

 

• 3 guys - Iyer, Rana n Moeen have scored against him all extremely vunerable against short ball , yet he bowled length at them . Height hai laga bouncer
• In middle over he hardly bowls hard length 
• Inexperienced
• Incomplete bowler 
• Just a one phase bowler that to hasnt been exceptional in any way 
• Not good at death
• on days he can be very expensive which anyone can be but he can have many such days 
• Have no 2nd skill 
• Even in PP i havent seen him run through a side apart from game when it was jagging like crazy which in similar condition even Ishant sharma ran through top orders in IPL . Chahar on his days run through top order and has done that a lot plus has extra skill
• even in his best season (this one ) he is at 17 number 

 

I want umran 100% in XI but no way Umran n Prasidh can play together- U cant have two inexperienced n incomplete bowlers playing together. Too play Umran u need a full or two phase good , consistent n reliable bowler so it doesnt put a lot of pressure on Bumrah

 

Only If those Pitches are going to be too spicy then only he shud go 

 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

This is why i dnt want prasidh in t20 squad. He has too much downside as a t20 bowler

 

 

 

Prasidh actually bowled rather well in 3 of his 4 overs.

 

Got hit in his 2nd over ... does happen to the best of the lot.

 

But came back very strongly and gave away just 13 runs in 2 death overs with a set Moeen still batting. That's just brilliant !

 

And what I am really liking is that ... he is mixing it up ... a hard length ball, then a bouncer,  then a yorker , then a slower ball 

 

This pitch was not suited to him but he still did well.

 

Liking his improvement in white ball skills.

Edited May 20, 2022 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

24 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Prasidh actually bowled rather well in 3 of his 4 overs.

 

Got hit in his 2nd over ... does happen to the best of the lot.

 

But came back very strongly and gave away just 13 runs in 2 death overs with a set Moeen still batting. That's just brilliant !

 

And what I am really liking is that ... he is mixing it up ... a hard length ball, then a bouncer,  then a yorker , then a slower ball 

 

This pitch was not suited to him but he still did well.

 

Liking his improvement in white ball skills.

Australia = bounce= bigger grounds= Prasidh

No chara ,no Harshal they all will travel their And potential 25,28-30 runs/over donors

Although,i will take Chahar over Sir Boobie

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Suhaan

[Ankit_sharma03]

41 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Prasidh actually bowled rather well in 3 of his 4 overs

by the time CSK innings lost momentum due to Ash-chahal n Mccoy 

even in that his last over went for 10 with a struggling dhoni n moeen (who by that time for tired n lost all his momentum) 

43 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Liking his improvement in white ball skills.

as of now too slow improvement to be taken to Wc, when siraj improved he was deilevering at death with bumrah that season

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

46 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

And what I am really liking is that ... he is mixing it up ... a hard length ball, then a bouncer,  then a yorker , then a slower ball 

extreme low % at that 

All these bounce makes no sense if ur letting guys like Moeen , Iyer and Rana score against u and these guys are damn weak. See how umran bowls them , all of them struggles infact even rohit who is one the most superior batsman of geniune pace in world.