IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[Adamant]

I just said that India has never produced an express pacer. 

 

I don't think there's anything wrong in what I said. 

 

Learn the difference between express pacer and Fast bowler. 

 

Dunno why some posters are having problem with this, it's the reality. 

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Adamant

[Lone Wolf]

13 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Sorry, but Tyagi doesn't bowl as fast as Naseem, he might be a better bowler but definitely not faster. 

Tyagi is a 90mph bowler just like Naseem.  1-2 kph doesn't matter as Naseem is short & could be more skiddy customer at times.  Release points play a big role in terms of pace. 

[speedheat]

9 minutes ago, Adamant said:

I am not saying Pakistan has produced many express bowlers but India definitely has never produced one. 

 

From Pakistan, Shoaib and Mohd Sami qualify as express pacers. 

True express is a bowler who bowls constantly in excess of 150kph like shoaib lee Bond for brief period  of time.

 

I'm curious as to how Sami qualified for this position. If you base your notion on malfunctioning speed guns in 2004 Pakistan tour or the UAE triangular series against Lanka and Zimbabwe, where his fast medium balls were hilariously displayed as 150+ kph then you are mistaken. His fastest speed was 148kph when timed on a proper speed gun in India in 2005. He may have hit 150 sometime in his career but he is not an express, and if he is then so are Arron Umesh, ishant, shrishant, and others.

[Jay]

29 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Did I say Waqar was Express? 

He was Sharp at his peak (dale steyn speed) but not an express pacer according to me. 

Although some legends of the game say that he was express pacer at his peak, I am not sure about him tbh. 

You should see what some of the legends say about srinath. Pollock always marvels about him. He calls him the fastest he has seen from Asia. There is a reason why he was called mysore express. Even in 2000 past his prime, he was bowling 140 consistently in world cup whilst wasim and wackjob was trundling. But was he express in tests? No. He was fast. 138-145 bowler. 

 

Waqar was fast till 1992. Like steyn level speed. 136-145. Average about 137  138. Never 140 plus on average. Post back surgery he was 135 on average. 

 

 

[Jay]

40 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Yes, I am not arguing against that, express pacers are rare. 

Although Nortje, Mohd Sami, Lockie, Bond,Starc, Johnson(for some time), Donald, Riaz can also be called Express pacers. 

Donald absolutely not express. He was fast. Steyn bumrah like. 

 

Schulz was express. 

Nantie Hayward. One of the fastest I have seen. He was lightning quick. 

[Jay]

12 minutes ago, speedheat said:

True express is a bowler who bowls constantly in excess of 150kph like shoaib lee Bond for brief period  of time.

 

I'm curious as to how Sami qualified for this position. If you base your notion on malfunctioning speed guns in 2004 Pakistan tour or the UAE triangular series against Lanka and Zimbabwe, where his fast medium balls were hilariously displayed as 150+ kph then you are mistaken. His fastest speed was 148kph when timed on a proper speed gun in India in 2005. He may have hit 150 sometime in his career but he is not an express, and if he is then so are Arron Umesh, ishant, shrishant, and others.

This exactly. Morkel once clocked 173 rofl. It was playing up. 

Sami was never a true express bowler. More like 142 143 on average.

 

If that's the case then umesh varun of 2011-2016 qualify easily. They were as quick as current wood, nortje and the starcy boy.

[speedheat]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

This exactly. Morkel once clocked 173 rofl. It was playing up. 

Sami was never a true express bowler. More like 142 143 on average.

 

If that's the case then umesh varun of 2011-2016 qualify easily. They were as quick as current wood, nortje and the starcy boy.

He most likely believes that the 164kph wala ball bowled by Sami against Ganguly or the 156kph ball bowled against Zimbo batter in UAE were truly that fast. Lmao

On that faulty speed gun from 2004 tour, I saw Balaji hit 162kph and Irfan hit 149kph.

[express bowling]

Express bowlers bowling 150 k+ rarely achieve much.

 

They either get injured or are notoriously inaccurate or both.

 

Hostile fast bowlers with great skills are the best .... that is bowling 144 k+ quicker balls with hostility, accuracy and movement. 

 

Like Steyn, Bumrah, Cummins etc.  (  Steyn started off as expeess but was fast for most of his life )

[rkt.india]

47 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Tyagi is a 90mph bowler just like Naseem.  1-2 kph doesn't matter as Naseem is short & could be more skiddy customer at times.  Release points play a big role in terms of pace. 

Kartik bowled upto 148 kph in IPL

[rkt.india]

25 minutes ago, Jay said:

Donald absolutely not express. He was fast. Steyn bumrah like. 

 

Schulz was express. 

Nantie Hayward. One of the fastest I have seen. He was lightning quick. 

Don't think Schultz was express. He was fast medium to me.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Right now in Asia I'll go with this ranking

Umran 

Rauf (I'll put him at 2 coz he ain't young anymore wasn't cranking it up in recent Aus series) 

Kumara 

Naseem/Tyagi (but Tyagi is tall & naturally more talented) 

Shaheen = Chameera = Bumrah 

 

Kuldeep Sen is up there too 

[Lone Wolf]

18 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Kuldeep Sen is up there too 

Kuldeep Sen needs to play more.  He is definite candidate in 90mph bracket but as of now lot less seen of him.  RR probably won't play him in many games unless McCoy f*** them up badly in one  of the games. 

[rkt.india]

18 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Kuldeep Sen needs to play more.  He is definite candidate in 90mph bracket but as of now lot less seen of him.  RR probably won't play him in many games unless McCoy f*** them up badly in one  of the games. 

Kuldeep has hit third highest 145kph deliveries in just two games. Mccoy already effed them last game. May get dropped either for Saini or Kuldeep.

[Mesky99]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

You should see what some of the legends say about srinath. Pollock always marvels about him. He calls him the fastest he has seen from Asia. There is a reason why he was called mysore express. Even in 2000 past his prime, he was bowling 140 consistently in world cup whilst wasim and wackjob was trundling. But was he express in tests? No. He was fast. 138-145 bowler. 

 

Waqar was fast till 1992. Like steyn level speed. 136-145. Average about 137  138. Never 140 plus on average. Post back surgery he was 135 on average. 

 

 

This should end all speculation about srinath's pace, he was a genuine quick bowler. Yes express. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AdkRSaHNmTA&t=67s

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Donald absolutely not express. He was fast. Steyn bumrah like. 

 

Schulz was express. 

Nantie Hayward. One of the fastest I have seen. He was lightning quick. 

Donald was express pacer bro. 

[Mesky99]

58 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Don't think Schultz was express. He was fast medium to me.

Nigam was some bowler, in between they had dewald Pretorius and he was express, tall strapping lad. Hardus vijeon another one, zondeki was skiddy quick. 

 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, speedheat said:

True express is a bowler who bowls constantly in excess of 150kph like shoaib lee Bond for brief period  of time.

 

I'm curious as to how Sami qualified for this position. If you base your notion on malfunctioning speed guns in 2004 Pakistan tour or the UAE triangular series against Lanka and Zimbabwe, where his fast medium balls were hilariously displayed as 150+ kph then you are mistaken. His fastest speed was 148kph when timed on a proper speed gun in India in 2005. He may have hit 150 sometime in his career but he is not an express, and if he is then so are Arron Umesh, ishant, shrishant, and others.

 

1 hour ago, speedheat said:

He most likely believes that the 164kph wala ball bowled by Sami against Ganguly or the 156kph ball bowled against Zimbo batter in UAE were truly that fast. Lmao

On that faulty speed gun from 2004 tour, I saw Balaji hit 162kph and Irfan hit 149kph.

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

This exactly. Morkel once clocked 173 rofl. It was playing up. 

Sami was never a true express bowler. More like 142 143 on average.

 

If that's the case then umesh varun of 2011-2016 qualify easily. They were as quick as current wood, nortje and the starcy boy.

This is  Sami clocking 145+ consistently in 2016 at 36 years of age, I remember watching this spell, he bowled a lot of balls at 148 kph and was consistently hitting 145+.

 

He was definitely quicker at his peak, Sami was an express pacer, no doubt about it. 

[speedheat]

37 minutes ago, Adamant said:

 

 

This is  Sami clocking 145+ consistently in 2016 at 36 years of age, I remember watching this spell, he bowled a lot of balls at 148 kph and was consistently hitting 145+.

 

He was definitely quicker at his peak, Sami was an express pacer, no doubt about it. 

He bowled at similar speeds throughout the majority of his career, that is genuine fast not express.

Express is what shown tait is bowling here

 

Umesh, Aaron, and perhaps even Shami bowled similar spurts at similar speeds.(similar like sami)

Edited April 24, 2022 by speedheat

[Jay]

18 minutes ago, Adamant said:

 

 

This is  Sami clocking 145+ consistently in 2016 at 36 years of age, I remember watching this spell, he bowled a lot of balls at 148 kph and was consistently hitting 145+.

 

He was definitely quicker at his peak, Sami was an express pacer, no doubt about it. 

Genuine fast mate. Not express.

[speedheat]

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/STATS/FC/BOWLING/BOWLING_SPEEDS_old.html

 

145kph(90mph) to 150kph (Genuine Speedsters)

J Srinath (IND)     149.6          v Aus 1998 in India
                    149.6          5/6/1999 2nd to Shoaib in W'Cup
CEW Silverwood(ENG) 149.6          v SA 9/12/99 
                    146.5          v SA 10/12/1999
Mohammad Sami (PAK) 148.8          v NZ 12/4/01
                    148.5          v NZ 15/4/01
                    147.4          v SL 8/4/01
M Ngam (RSA)        148.3          v SL 12/2000 
                    147.5          on debut v NZ 12/2000
                    150            (approx, SA domestic 00)
R Telemachus (RSA)  148.3          v Eng 11/10/2000
                    142.7          v Aus 7/2000 
CRD Fernando (SL)   148            v RSA (Cricinfo story 30/1/01)
                    147            v SA 26/12/2000 
                    147.5          v NZ 20/7/01
JH Kallis (RSA)     147.6          v SL 2000 2nd Test 
                    146.4          18/6/1999 World Cup
                    144.5          v Aus   /4/02
                    141            v SL 4/1/01 
A Razzaq (Pak)      147.2          v Eng 19/5/2001
                    140            1998, 20 years old 
DW Headley (ENG)    147            Jan 5 1999 (Retired)
                    145            v NZ 23/7/1999 
AB Agarkar (IND)    147            unconfirmed, Aus 99
                    145.4          v Zim 13/3/02
                    143.7          v Zim 15-19/6/01
GI Allott (NZ)      146.5          1999 World Cup (Retired)
CL Cairns (NZ)      146.4          v Eng, 20/8/1999
FA Rose (WI)        146.4          v Eng, 26/6/2000
A Flintoff (Eng)    146.1          v Ind 20/12/01
BA Williams (AUS)   146            v NSW 99'(Aus domestic)
                    142.6          v NZ 11/1/02 (Debut)
Wasim Akram(PAK)    145            1993 in SA
C White (ENG)       145            v WI 4/8/2000
                    143.6          v WI 2/9/2000
RD King (WI)        145            v Eng 2000 unconfirmed 
                    143.2          v 15/7/2000 Vs Eng
GD McGrath (AUS)    145            v Pak 20/7/1999
                    143.7          v RSA 3/2/02
                    142.9          v NZ 26/1/02
                    142.3          v Zim 4/2/01
                    141.6          v India 1998,
CK Langeveldt       145            v EP 29/3/01 (RSA Domestic)
                    135.3          v Aus 20/1/02
CEL Stuart (WI)     145            v Zim 22/7/01
                    144.1          v Aus MCG 3/1/01
Zaheer Kahn (IND)   145.0          v Zim 21/2/02
                    143.8          ICC ODIs in Kenya 2000
                    142            v Aus 11/3/01

@Adamant

 Here is Eddie's list.. sami qualifies as genuine fast with fastest of 148kph here..

Though i have seen sami touch up to 150kphnin NZ in 2003......Except on those faulty speed guns in uae and pak tour 2004 he has mostly bowled fast to fast medium spells.