IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[tapandrun]

17 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

On a bare Indian surface , what is the most effective pace in your opinion ?

Test - Persistent accurate seam, if bowler has addition pace then swing and reverse swing.

 

OdI - White ball only swings for first few over and reverse is non existent with 2 new balls. So Seam again with zip and carry, skiddy bowler with bit of pace can also work

 

T20 -There is no perfect type of bowler or bowling type, all coaches and TM would say bowlers need variations but variations become usual thing after a season or two.

        batters are ready for the usual variation the bowler has. So again if there is no mystery or Malinga/Pathirana type bowler then there have be combination in above post 

Edited April 3, 2024 by tapandrun

[Nikhil_cric]

4 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Generally it won't work and batsmen will dominate.Also in Odis batsmen have more overs in hand so cutters are not as effective.

But pace worked much better on a slow pitch like Lucknow .

 

It was on quicker pitches like Bangalore that pace got destroyed in the World Cup .

 

Or even Wankhede during the day 

 

In fact , on slower pitches , batsmen absolutely struggled - Ahmedabad during the day , Lucknow etc .

 

 

 

[tapandrun]

13 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

But pace worked much better on a slow pitch like Lucknow .

 

It was on quicker pitches like Bangalore that pace got destroyed in the World Cup .

 

Or even Wankhede during the day 

 

In fact , on slower pitches , batsmen absolutely struggled - Ahmedabad during the day , Lucknow etc .

 

 

 

Cutters do nt work much these days on true wkts unless there are BD type wkts where ball grips alot or if bowler is breaking form high 140s to 125 is kmph or a tall bowler bowling slow bouncer hitting the pitch hard and letting natural pitch variation do the work. No one is bowling cutters in BBL, There were hardly any cutters in this ODi WC.

 

Batters seems to be more ready for cutters now either they have data or they are able to pick cutters early from certain bowlers. hitting ability and new shots are increasing year by year. 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2024 by tapandrun

[MediumPacer]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

But pace worked much better on a slow pitch like Lucknow .

 

It was on quicker pitches like Bangalore that pace got destroyed in the World Cup .

 

Or even Wankhede during the day 

 

In fact , on slower pitches , batsmen absolutely struggled - Ahmedabad during the day , Lucknow etc .

 

 

 

Lucknow was an uneven doubled paced pitch with patchy grass,as for ahmedabad they used a lot of cutters.

 

And when we say quick piches,it could mean two things ,that the pitch has decent pace to help stroke play or does it have extra pace to help genuine fast bowlers.

[Nikhil_cric]

4 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Lucknow was an uneven doubled paced pitch with patchy grass,as for ahmedabad they used a lot of cutters.

 

And when we say quick piches,it could mean two things ,that the pitch has decent pace to help stroke play or does it have extra pace to help genuine fast bowlers.

No we don't mean two things. Wanderers is the fastest and one of the bounciest  pitches in the world and it's near impossible to create a faster, bouncier pitch than that 

 

And in ODI cricket , the scoring rates have been ridiculous at times. 

 

Supersport Park is another extremely fast pitch and Akhtar , the fastest bowler , got destroyed on that pitch by Tendulkar 

 

Unless there is uneven bounce or lateral movement , even the quickest pitches have been extremely batter friendly 

[MediumPacer]

1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said:

No we don't mean two things. Wanderers is the fastest and one of the bounciest  pitches in the world and it's near impossible to create a faster, bouncier pitch than that 

 

And in ODI cricket , the scoring rates have been ridiculous at times. 

 

Supersport Park is another extremely fast pitch and Akhtar , the fastest bowler , got destroyed on that pitch by Tendulkar 

 

Unless there is uneven bounce or lateral movement , even the quickest pitches have been extremely batter friendly 

Any pitch can slow down, it takes more effort to quicken it up.Gabba was quite slow during the t20 wc.

 

Supersport park was a good batting pitch in 2003 ,the test match pitch earlier this year had a lot more juice.

[Nikhil_cric]

2 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Any pitch can slow down, it takes more effort to quicken it up.Gabba was quite slow during the t20 wc.

 

Supersport park was a good batting pitch in 2003 ,the test match pitch earlier this year had a lot more juice.

 These things are measurable and have been measured. 

 

Wanderers has never slowed down. It's the fastest pitch in the world since ball tracking began. 

 

In the World Cup , Chinnaswamy was shown to be, comfortably, the fastest pitch and a graphic was shown on the broadcast attesting the same.

 

Which is why it looked like even 400 was going to be chased there. 

 

If you look at the fastest pitches in each country , some of the fastest knocks/team innings have always been played there. 

 

Juice in the pitch implies seam movement and uneven bounce of some sort .

 

Pitches like Supersport do have that in Test matches occasionally which is what makes batting hard. Not the speed of the pitch itself. 

[Lone Wolf]

49 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

But pace worked much better on a slow pitch like Lucknow .

 

It was on quicker pitches like Bangalore that pace got destroyed in the World Cup .

 

Or even Wankhede during the day 

 

In fact , on slower pitches , batsmen absolutely struggled - Ahmedabad during the day , Lucknow etc .

 

 

 

Moody on Cricinfo said last night...  Slow fast pitch doesn't matter for a Express pacer with good control...  Ulta uneven bounce of slowish Carribean pitches would aid Mayank. 

[Nikhil_cric]

7 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Moody on Cricinfo said last night...  Slow fast pitch doesn't matter for a Express pacer with good control...  Ulta uneven bounce of slowish Carribean pitches would aid Mayank. 

So far, he has shown pace, bounce and control. 

 

Which is impressive on its own. 

 

Caribbean T20 decks can be proper batting tracks too. The recent England-WI series had some real belters. 

 

[MediumPacer]

4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 These things are measurable and have been measured. 

 

Wanderers has never slowed down. It's the fastest pitch in the world since ball tracking began. 

 

In the World Cup , Chinnaswamy was shown to be, comfortably, the fastest pitch and a graphic was shown on the broadcast attesting the same.

 

Which is why it looked like even 400 was going to be chased there. 

 

If you look at the fastest pitches in each country , some of the fastest knocks/team innings have always been played there. 

 

Juice in the pitch implies seam movement and uneven bounce of some sort .

 

Pitches like Supersport do have that in Test matches occasionally which is what makes batting hard. Not the speed of the pitch itself. 

I remember seeing a graphics which said sydney was quicker than any pitch in England ,i don't know what to make of it,is it really quicker than headingly.

 

For me visually quickness is more believable, just like with pacers and speedometers.

 

The other point is often these pitches have more bounce than pace,that helps high release bowlers .

 

Quick pacers aren't always the best bowlers, so they need helpful conditions ,whereas great bowlers can adjust in different condition.

[Nikhil_cric]

12 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

I remember seeing a graphics which said sydney was quicker than any pitch in England ,i don't know what to make of it,is it really quicker than headingly.

 

For me visually quickness is more believable, just like with pacers and speedometers.

 

The other point is often these pitches have more bounce than pace,that helps high release bowlers .

 

Quick pacers aren't always the best bowlers, so they need helpful conditions ,whereas great bowlers can adjust in different condition.

Sydney is quicker than Headingley. It's a terrific ODI batting pitch. 

 

Australia scored 330 off there against a Pakistan attack of Wasim , Akhtar, Saqlain way back in Jan, 2000.

 

Other pitches in Australia may be even quicker but they have a bit more inconsistent bounce/seam movement and therefore it's not as easy to score. 

 

And of course the dimensions are larger in Australia generally.

 

Visual quickness is purely perception. 

 

A 135 kph seaming ball that keeps slightly lower will rush a batsman into defence and so you'll think it's quick..

 

On the other hand, a 152 kph ball that comes in a straight line with true bounce can be smashed for six by a good player of pace making it look slow. 

 

English ODI pitches were often slow before 2015.

 

Morgan insisted on playing fast pitches to allow for guys like Roy to play exuberantly.

 

If you look at that era, that team struggled whenever they came up on slow pitches .  They simply could not execute their strokeplay 

[MediumPacer]

9 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Sydney is quicker than Headingley. It's a terrific ODI batting pitch. 

 

Australia scored 330 off there against a Pakistan attack of Wasim , Akhtar, Saqlain way back in Jan, 2000.

 

Other pitches in Australia may be even quicker but they have a bit more inconsistent bounce/seam movement and therefore it's not as easy to score. 

 

And of course the dimensions are larger in Australia generally.

 

Visual quickness is purely perception. 

 

A 135 kph seaming ball that keeps slightly lower will rush a batsman into defence and so you'll think it's quick..

 

On the other hand, a 152 kph ball that comes in a straight line with true bounce can be smashed for six by a good player of pace making it look slow. 

 

English ODI pitches were often slow before 2015.

 

Morgan insisted on playing fast pitches to allow for guys like Roy to play exuberantly.

 

If you look at that era, that team struggled whenever they came up on slow pitches .  They simply could not execute their strokeplay 

Better batting pitch doesn't mean it's a quick pitch for fast bowlers,the 400 run pitch at Jo'burg was hardly quick ,it was a easy paced pitch for batting, quick enough for batting but not fast bowling.

 

The game itself is played visually,and batsmen judge balls accordingly.It's not like Hawkeye is used functionally on the pitch.Also there are a lot of tweaking that goes on in the Hawkeye in the background.

 

If someone is bowling quickly,even if they get smashed, the trajectory of the ball itself looks quick .You may check that video where sachin was hitting lee who was bowling in the 150s in 2008 mcg.

 

You don't need to look at the batsman's reaction.A batsman can be hurried even by a spinner if he doesn't read him ,but the ball itself doesn't look that fast in the air.

 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

53 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

So far, he has shown pace, bounce and control. 

 

Which is impressive on its own. 

 

Caribbean T20 decks can be proper batting tracks too. The recent England-WI series had some real belters. 

 

Yes also pitch in new York will be a drop in one prepared and brought fron Adelaide where we play Pak so trundlers will be smashed either way... 

India will probably play a lot in Guyana which is slowest deck in Cartibean before playing a odd game in Barbados before KO's

[tapandrun]

Mavi is out of IPL 2024 any replacements for him...???

[rkt.india]

2 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Mavi is out of IPL 2024 any replacements for him...???

They should pick Himanshu Chauhan.

[tapandrun]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

They should pick Himanshu Chauhan.

Is he their or any1's net bowler ....??

[Nikhil_cric]

20 minutes ago, MediumPacer said:

Better batting pitch doesn't mean it's a quick pitch for fast bowlers,the 400 run pitch at Jo'burg was hardly quick ,it was a easy paced pitch for batting, quick enough for batting but not fast bowling.

 

The game itself is played visually,and batsmen judge balls accordingly.It's not like Hawkeye is used functionally on the pitch.Also there are a lot of tweaking that goes on in the Hawkeye in the background.

 

If someone is bowling quickly,even if they get smashed, the trajectory of the ball itself looks quick .You may check that video where sachin was hitting lee who was bowling in the 150s in 2008 mcg.

 

You don't need to look at the batsman's reaction.A batsman can be hurried even by a spinner if he doesn't read him ,but the ball itself doesn't look that fast in the air.

 

 

 

 

Hawkeye is used to determine how much pace has been lost off the pitch .

 

There is plenty of evidence of batsmen doing better on quicker pitches. 

 

"Easy paced" is a casual term that is thrown to define a pitch that is good for batting 

 

It does not say anything about the actual slowness or lack thereof of a particular pitch. 

 

What tweaks to HawkEye?

 

I've already given you the examples of Chinnaswamy in the World Cup. 

 

The fastest pitch (assuming minimal lateral movement and uneven bounce) is usually the best batting pitch. 

 

The pitches which look "visually" quick are the ones with extra bounce if at all .

 

And the Wanderers even at its slowest is quicker than most 95 % of the pitches in the world. 

 

 

[rkt.india]

9 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Is he their or any1's net bowler ....??

He was GT net bowler last year. No idea about this IPL.

[rkt.india]

SMAT

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

They should pick Himanshu Chauhan.

 

Himanshu must be picked.