IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[Forward Defence]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Natarajan will face the same fate as Mohit when a top international batter starts playing with intensity. 

your picks for the wc?

[Lord]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Natarajan will face the same fate as Mohit when a top international batter starts playing with intensity. 

 

nah hes better in terms of nailing yorkers. Even in intl he did well

 

Mohit had just 1 good season even there couldn't finish well

[singhvivek141]

43 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

nah hes better in terms of nailing yorkers. Even in intl he did well

 

Mohit had just 1 good season even there couldn't finish well

With his height and pace he has to be pin point 6 out of 6...straight under the bat.

An inch here and there and he will be taken for runs.

High pace increases those inches around the yorker area by a bit. Plus even low fulltosses can be effective and hard to hit.

Edited April 24, 2024 by singhvivek141

[Lord]

1 minute ago, singhvivek141 said:

With his height and pace he has to be pin point 6 out of 6...straight under the bat.

An inch here and there and he will be taken for runs.

High pace increases those inches around the yorker area by a bit. Plus even low fulltosses can be effective and hard to hit.

 

yeah I was only comparing to Maulit

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Forward Defence said:

your picks for the wc?

 

Bumrah

Harshit

Arshdeep

Mayank 

 

[tapandrun]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Bumrah

Harshit

Arshdeep

Mayank 

 

Who's in 11 ?? 

 

If Hardik is not third seamer Ind may have to sit out Rinku.

 

Bhumrah, Singh(bring only LAF) and Hardik are 3 seamers and then 2 spinners, then only Rinku gets into 11.

Else batting gets weaker 

Edited April 24, 2024 by tapandrun

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Who's in 11 ?? 

 

If Hardik is not third seamer Ind may have to sit out Rinku.

 

Bhumrah, Singh(bring only LAF) and Hardik are 3 seamers and then 2 spinners, then only Rinku gets into 11.

Else batting gets weaker 

you don't need 2 spinners. 3 pacers + kuldeep is enough. there will be 2-3 part time options.

[Suhaan]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Natarajan will face the same fate as Mohit when a top international batter starts playing with intensity. 

People don't understand medium pacers/trundlers should be extremely good hitters of the ball with credentials to score consistently 25-30 runs to compensate for their inability to make things happen Outta nowhere which a 140+-145+ wicket taking pacers can do

Infact I believe each one of the members should have ability to tonk deliveries

[JaFanatic]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

you don't need 2 spinners. 3 pacers + kuldeep is enough. there will be 2-3 part time options.

In which case we need to play both Abhishek and Parag for their SLA & legcuts to compliment the chinaman. Both actually merit a place in the 11. But with Rohit, Kohli, Rahul, Pandya and Jadeja they may not even make it to the squad. 

[tapandrun]

1 hour ago, JaFanatic said:

In which case we need to play both Abhishek and Parag for their SLA & legcuts to compliment the chinaman. Both actually merit a place in the 11. But with Rohit, Kohli, Rahul, Pandya and Jadeja they may not even make it to the squad. 

Its the same problem again which has been happening for last 3/4 marquee events, Ind bowlers can't bat and batters cannot bowl.

 

When the team be announced some1 will tell, they have talked to Kolhi and Rohit and when needed they will bowl. Should have developed Jaiswal as legspinner he was bowling not long back in age groups, Rinku bowls some off-spinner too. Its just they do not want to develop them.

Not sure by S.Iyer can bowl too.

 

Looks like they donot want to create much competition for senior superstars

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

11 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Who's in 11 ?? 

 

If Hardik is not third seamer Ind may have to sit out Rinku.

 

Bhumrah, Singh(bring only LAF) and Hardik are 3 seamers and then 2 spinners, then only Rinku gets into 11.

Else batting gets weaker 

 

Hardik is totally out of form. So no point in taking him. 

 

One possible playing 11 is ....

 

1. Rohit .. as he has been chosen captain

2. Abhishek .. spinner 

3. Jaiswal

4. SKY

5. Pant

6. Rinku

7. Dube .. medium pacer 

8. Harshit .. can hit big 

9. Bumrah

10. Kuldeep

11. Mayank 

 

 

12. Samson

13. Pan-less Parag 

14. Axar

15. Arshdeep 

 

.... Bumrah and Harshit can bowl both in PP and at the death.

.... Mayank and Kuldeep will bowl in the middle overs.

.... Abhishek and Dube will share 4 overs.

.... Abhishek should definitely be picked this time. No other Indian can bat at 300+ SR at the top and bowl spin.

.... Dube at 7 lends a lot of depth to the batting. 

Edited April 25, 2024 by express bowling

[tapandrun]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Hardik is totally out of form. So no point in taking him. 

 

One possible playing 11 is ....

 

1. Rohit .. as he has been chosen captain

2. Abhishek .. spinner 

3. Jaiswal

4. SKY

5. Pant

6. Rinku

7. Dube .. medium pacer 

8. Harshit .. can hit big 

9. Bumrah

10. Kuldeep

11. Mayank 

No Kolhi ...?? by now Kohli and Rohit have become Binary stars figuratively and literally. Either both are in the team or both are dropped

[singhvivek141]

32 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

No Kolhi ...?? by now Kohli and Rohit have become Binary stars figuratively and literally. Either both are in the team or both are dropped

Can Kohli keep wickets ? Or can he give us 2 proper overs with ball ?

 

If not Kohli then either Rohit or SKY has to take responsibility.

Edited April 25, 2024 by singhvivek141

[express bowling]

39 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

No Kolhi ...?? by now Kohli and Rohit have become Binary stars figuratively and literally. Either both are in the team or both are dropped

 

We all know that Kohli will play. And so will Jadeja, Hardik, Mukesh. Rahul may sneak in too.

 

These are just theoretical discussions about possible effective 11s. 

[tapandrun]

On 4/23/2024 at 12:36 PM, TellTheTruth said:

 

How is bumrah being consistently shut down when he is averaging low 20s in all 3 formats. Is he supposed to be averaging 10? Which top tier bowler has been more consistent then bumrah across 3 formats in the t20 era? Closest is probably shaheen who stat padded against weak test teams.

Fair point, may b there is nathing may be there is something. IMO there is a pattern emerging. 

It starts same way first ppl think its all good they are top player, there is data to back them up and then slowly we realize there was a problem

 

Or may be just over watching and over analyzing like they through around and talk about clutch genes, being soft, no. of rings, post season game in NBA.

But there has be to some reason Ind has/had ntwin a single ICC title for so long having best ODI players in Rohit, Dhoni, Kolhi, Bhvi, Bhumrah. And there are no teams like Aus for 90-00 and WI of 70- mid 80s

Edited April 25, 2024 by tapandrun

[JaFanatic]

Bhuvi is best ODI player? Not even in his peak years lol. He was at best a support cast barring a couple of matches against SL and Aus. He avgs over 35 for heaven sake! 

[JaFanatic]

47 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Fair point, may b there is nathing may be there is something. IMO there is a pattern emerging. 

It starts same way first ppl think its all good they are top player, there is data to back them up and then slowly we realize there was a problem

 

Or may be just over watching and over analyzing like they through around and talk about clutch genes, being soft, no. of rings, post season game in NBA.

But there has be to some reason Ind has/had ntwin a single ICC title for so long having best ODI players in Rohit, Dhoni, Kolhi, Bhvi, Bhumrah. And there are no teams like Aus for 90-00 and WI of 70- mid 80s

Simply we didn't hold our nerves in the key moments of knockout matches. That's the primary reason why we couldn't win more trophies, we choked when it matters.

 

There other reasons too like stalking the 11 with only accumulators, lack of part time bowlers or bowlers who could bat. Not picking the best team like overlooking Shami for the best odi player Bhuvi for most part. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Fair point, may b there is nathing may be there is something. IMO there is a pattern emerging. 

It starts same way first ppl think its all good they are top player, there is data to back them up and then slowly we realize there was a problem

 

Or may be just over watching and over analyzing like they through around and talk about clutch genes, being soft, no. of rings, post season game in NBA.

But there has be to some reason Ind has/had win a single ICC title for so long having best ODI players in Rohit, Dhoni, Kolhi, Bhvi, Bhumrah. And there are no teams like Aus for 90-00 and WI of 70- mid 80s

 

 

One thing noticeable is that ... in recent times, Bumrah's effectiveness has improved significantly when there is swing on offer. He is probably operating at 1.5x to 2x potency with the swinging ball compared to his 2016-22 days. 

 

Conversely, when there is little movement on offer, his potency has gone down to 0.5x or 0.7x compared to his 2017-2021 days. One exception was 2nd test in SA when he bowled like earlier.

 

Bumrah's overall figures still look great and maybe better than earlier.  But there will be many innings / matches when he will look totally ineffective in terms of wicket taking. 

 

This problem has been accentuated by the fact that Shami's progression has been similar too. The fiery Shami of 2016 to 2021 has been replaced by line and length seam bowler Shami operating with movement.  

 

And Siraj was always movement dependent anyway.

 

Infact, Indian pace attacks have been historically like this starting 1978.  Looked great with the swinging / seaming ball but looked mediocre in flatter conditions in which the taller, bouncier, hit the deck WI, Aussie and SA pacers did much better.

 

The only exception to this happened under B.Arun in the 2016 to 2021 period when the Indian pacers matched or outbowled their foreign counterparts in non-swinging conditions, as they bowled quicker and hit the deck harder while maintaining accuracy. 

 

Mhambrey tenure has synced with an old Shami and a twice injured Bumrah. So, it difficult to say whether our new bowling style is the Mhambrey effect or just providence. But where he has failed is bringing in new enforcer pacers and getting them established. Look at SA. As Rabada has become.slower, they have brought in Nortje, Coetzee and Burger as enforcers. And they have Rabada, Jansen and Ngidi to take the lead when the ball is moving.

 

Indian cricket has usually been about being one dimensional and not having Plan Bs or Plan Cs.  Do well if top 3 batters succeed or if ball is swinging or if spinners can operate on dustbowls.  This is where captain Dhoni made the LOI batting multi-dimensional and succeeded. He had a solid lower-middle order with Raini, Yuvraj and Dhoni. An usual Indian captain would have batted at 3 and padded his batting stats. 

 

We should look to build multi-dimensional teams and have Plan Bs and Plan Cs if we want to win more ICC tournaments.  ( And ofcourse look to focus on current form and ability instead of seniority )

Edited April 25, 2024 by express bowling

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Fair point, may b there is nathing may be there is something. IMO there is a pattern emerging. 

It starts same way first ppl think its all good they are top player, there is data to back them up and then slowly we realize there was a problem

 

Or may be just over watching and over analyzing like they through around and talk about clutch genes, being soft, no. of rings, post season game in NBA.

But there has be to some reason Ind has/had ntwin a single ICC title for so long having best ODI players in Rohit, Dhoni, Kolhi, Bhvi, Bhumrah. And there are no teams like Aus for 90-00 and WI of 70- mid 80s

Reason is simple...we are again concentrating our strength on few individuals.

India does have a problem...Once someone is successful they just shut the shop on the others and keep on backing that one individual for eternity even though that guy might not be in best of forms.

 

We keep on milking the same player, use his name as a marketing campaign everywhere till he is injured.

 

As we didn't develop any bench strength because we kept on focusing on one individual. Once we are in the rough waters we panic and select any random name from the domestics who has best stats or any senior player who has experience.

 

Bumrah is a prime example. We are so much dependent on him that we have never done any contingency planning. What if tomorrow Bumrah injures himself ? Who is the next in line to replace him and lead the attack? There is no clarity...a clear vacuum.

 

I don't want to engage in the name calling, but that's the job of coaches and selectors. They need to prepare for the emergencies...they need to identify the players who can perform the roles and accordingly pressurize the franchises to play those players in that roles.

 

There are very basic things, which any ex cricketer who has an interest in cricket will understand and take the action. But sad to see that even a senior player like Dravid has no knowledge of Indian domestic cricket. I don't think our present ex cricketers are even 10% interested in cricket. All the care about is IPL to have some commentary stint and then do some ads..that's all.

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

 What if tomorrow Bumrah injures himself ? Who is the next in line to replace him and lead the attack? There is no clarity...a clear vacuum.

 

 

 

It's not even a " what if "  !

 

In 2022, Bumrah was injured and they did not try to prepare his replacement till the last month. Suddenly Shami was brought in with him not having played a single T20 for a few months.