velu Posted April 5, 2021 Posted April 5, 2021 https://www.engadget.com/lg-mobile-worldwide-shutdown-020959355.html
Clarke Posted April 5, 2021 Posted April 5, 2021 Good riddance, Sony should have packed up earlier velu 1
coffee_rules Posted April 5, 2021 Posted April 5, 2021 So then there is Iphone, Samsung and China models
Clarke Posted April 5, 2021 Posted April 5, 2021 ^ Nokia, Google are smaller but probably more successful than LG & Sony in this division
rkt.india Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 7 hours ago, Khota said: Consumer electronics has virtually no profit margin. Apple makes huge profits. Selling 400 dollar phone for 1200 dollars. Even if if you add R&D cost 200 dollars per phone, they still have 50% margin.
Khota Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 3 hours ago, rkt.india said: Apple makes huge profits. Selling 400 dollar phone for 1200 dollars. Even if if you add R&D cost 200 dollars per phone, they still have 50% margin. Apple has a cult following. Rest are barely operating at 1 to 3% margins thru the entire supply chain.
Clarke Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 Credit to the Chinese on capturing the market share globally. Some years back Micromax had an all right market share in India and these guys punched it hollow with their speed & efficiency while it was still stuck with 3G.
Khota Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 Chinese are amazing. Chinese are smart people with very efficient economic system. They dont have IAS officers running the bureaucracy. They are capturingthe market share at unbelievable pace. There issues are chipsets but in a decades time they will get there. India needs to be inspired by Taiwan, Korea, japan, China but none of that will happen till they have IAS running the bureaucracy. 14 minutes ago, Clarke said: Credit to the Chinese on capturing the market share globally. Some years back Micromax had an all right market share in India and these guys punched it hollow with their speed & efficiency while it was still stuck with 3G.
R!TTER Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Khota said: Too much competition. Too much chini, chini kum khao diabetes nahi hoga 16 minutes ago, Clarke said: with their speed & efficiency while it was still stuck with 3G. You mean Chinese state assistance, not to mention it's actually cheaper for them to make such devices? Edited April 6, 2021 by R!TTER
R!TTER Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Khota said: none of that will happen till they have IAS running the bureaucracy. I'm not sure that's 100% true, while it is true that at the top end the likes of Intel, AMD, QC, ARM make a huge difference to what you can achieve globally - it's also true that we'll eventually get to a point where "nm" or "pm" will not matter anymore! The biggest asset in that case is IP - x86, ARM, Nvidia et al are the reason why the West still dominates this sector. I'm curious how do chumps like Shekhar get their news? Sure we have a huge trade deficit with China but can he actually breakdown the component cost of what we import & where that money is flowing to? Chinese phones have anywhere between at least 50% to 90% IP based on companies from the West. In PC it's probably even bigger - so in reality the biggest trade deficit we have is probably with the US because they're ones earning the most from IP followed by ARM.
Khota Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 34 minutes ago, R!TTER said: I'm not sure that's 100% true, while it is true that at the top end the likes of Intel, AMD, QC, ARM make a huge difference to what you can achieve globally - it's also true that we'll eventually get to a point where "nm" or "pm" will not matter anymore! The biggest asset in that case is IP - x86, ARM, Nvidia et al are the reason why the West still dominates this sector. I'm curious how do chumps like Shekhar get their news? Sure we have a huge trade deficit with China but can he actually breakdown the component cost of what we import & where that money is flowing to? Chinese phones have anywhere between at least 50% to 90% IP based on companies from the West. In PC it's probably even bigger - so in reality the biggest trade deficit we have is probably with the US because they're ones earning the most from IP followed by ARM. Chinese do not pay IP in most of the cases. At the low end they have there on microcontrollers which are cleaning the Washing machine type of applications. They are also contributing a lot on the passive component side. Plus they do not have the bureaucracy like IAS running the shyte show. I am impressed by chinese because they are truly dominating. Wait till electric cars happen and once again they will be a force. They missed the boat on IC engines but new batteries etc. they will dominate. Look at drones coming from china, the list is endless.
R!TTER Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, Khota said: Chinese do not pay IP in most of the cases. At the low end they have there on microcontrollers which are cleaning the Washing machine type of applications. They are also contributing a lot on the passive component side. Plus they do not have the bureaucracy like IAS running the shyte show. They do pay for QC chips, Intel's chips, Samsung's memory, LG's display etc. These are all IP & major IP revenues btw - so the difference between a Chinese processor or an Intel processor is? x86 - that's what a I meant by IP, in reality it's even more complicated when you consider a lot of these chips are made in Taiwan, USA, Korea, even Japan - the IP in them is worth the most & that's why to get to where the US of A is at toady China will not only need to match it on the "nanoscale" but also the IP they carry & you can't copy x86 or ARM, if you know what I'm talking about. Dumb ICs - who the eff cares!
Clarke Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 24 minutes ago, R!TTER said: You mean Chinese state assistance, not to mention it's actually cheaper for them to make such devices? You really think state assistance or local cost is all it takes deliver a usable handset at the price Xiaomi does or to compete with flagships the way OnePlus does, or the yearly updates any major brand comes out with ? coffee_rules 1
coffee_rules Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, Clarke said: You really think state assistance or local cost is all it takes deliver a usable handset at the price Xiaomi does or to compete with flagships the way OnePlus does, or the yearly updates any major brand comes out with ? Agree, I used always say that too, with China’s undervalued currency, holding of gold bullion, promoting export business is all it took for Chins to thrive leaps ahead of India since the 80s. The innovation in manufacturing is ages ahead which India is catching up on in the auto Industry. Very few in India invest in innovation, a product that is made to look good. India is more interested in providing Human Resources! This has nothing to do with IAS or bureaucracy! Clarke and velu 2
R!TTER Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Clarke said: You really think state assistance or local cost is all it takes deliver a usable handset at the price Xiaomi does or to compete with flagships the way OnePlus does, or the yearly updates any major brand comes out with ? You really think it's such a big deal? Hint - it's not & I didn't say it was the only reason! The manufacturer (assembler) is usually either Hon hai or Pegatron & they make smartphones for everyone from Apple, Samsung to Micromax! Still if you think that, then you must have a ton of idea about how smartphone "manufacturing" works Edited April 6, 2021 by R!TTER
Clarke Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 16 minutes ago, R!TTER said: You really think it's such a big deal? Hint - it's not & I didn't say it was the only reason! The manufacturer (assembler) is usually either Hon hai or Pegatron & they make smartphones for everyone from Apple, Samsung to Micromax! Still if you think that, then you must have a ton of idea about how smartphone "manufacturing" works Holding one's own in a fiercely competitive global industry ? Heck yeah it is a big deal. Your view might be limited to manufacturing but that's because you choose to ignore the various facets that contributed to their growth, for e.g. as the unique marketing strategies these companies employed: oneplus referrals, xiaomi flash sales & vivo/oppo store incentives. That's just the surface visible here. I'm not a fan of China & avoid its products to a larger extent than most, although part of dealing with an enemy country is knowing their strengths and acknowledging them so that they can be understood and tackled appropriately. coffee_rules 1
Khota Posted April 6, 2021 Posted April 6, 2021 5 hours ago, R!TTER said: They do pay for QC chips, Intel's chips, Samsung's memory, LG's display etc. These are all IP & major IP revenues btw - so the difference between a Chinese processor or an Intel processor is? x86 - that's what a I meant by IP, in reality it's even more complicated when you consider a lot of these chips are made in Taiwan, USA, Korea, even Japan - the IP in them is worth the most & that's why to get to where the US of A is at toady China will not only need to match it on the "nanoscale" but also the IP they carry & you can't copy x86 or ARM, if you know what I'm talking about. Dumb ICs - who the eff cares! Everyone pays for the chipsets but lot of other technology they can clone. The processors I was talking about were the low end ones that go in industrial applications but not in Iphones. The mechincal assembly, the push buttons the connectors, they are saving a ton on that which they make on their own. The pcb they make on their own and as a matter of fact make pcbs for rest of the world too. I dont know their share of RF but stil quiet a bit is theirs.. They are also doing most of the management on boards like power etc. They have a fair share by cost in a phone except for the chipsets where they lag behind.
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