Fans need to understand England approach will not work for Indian team.

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

I think issue of tail can be solved by simply selecting bowlers who can bat.Pure bowlers should be reliable like Bumrah to get in.No more no. 11

 

We can play this attack vs most teams : Jadeja/Thakur/D Chahar/R Chahar/Bumrah. Siraj and Shami as backup of Bumrah

 

Yes this will concede more than current attack but will gain more in batting if approach changes.

 

For teams like we can play both Siraj and Bumrah as they have strong batting.

 

 

 

 

 

Solution is being smart, dont replicate england just be smart with ur own resources n ull see 20-25 run diff which wud be enough

 

@maniac- ye le fir bata raha hu

 

• dont change it all, just change one in top 3.....have pant or shaw open so they can bat quick n cover up the wastage rohit n kohli does. Shaw pretty has done a huge favour to dhawan in IPL 
• Ashwin can bat n is currently at his peak so play him as spinner anyways ull need tail once in 10 games 
• Bat a leftie in middle so a leggie can be negotiated. Kohli n KL has issues against leggies so its not that they are getting out attacking them its just they have an issue a leftie will make opposition captain reluctant to use a leggie .
• Leftie in middle will get a left right combo going and what does left right do ?? Disturb bowlers length n lines so ull get some more loose stuff . This in itself will make a diff of few runs
• Use thakur on right surfaces as bowler- his bowling has issue but if u use even a binny on right surface he ll win u games. Cricket is a game of condition n situation and what works for thakur the bowler is long grounds n two pace wkts like Last yr IPL or Aus ground or Ahmd ground 
• Siraj shud be all format bowler now and he can bat a bit and so can rahul chahar so work on them
• Rohit has to be a lil more pro active in PP, 2-3 more shots thats it ......circle ke bahar khaali hai
• Kohli middle over game has declined so he clearly needs to work ..

Even if we become a 370 side that enough, england is a 400 .....lets not be that greedy 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, maniac said:

also he is not a brainless slogger. Plays proper cricketing shots. Bowls 140+, completes his quota, can hit and is one of the best fielders in the world, sound familiar? Apparently not for Ankit.

who is a brainless slogger ??

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

who is a brainless slogger ??

Not Jordan. That was the point

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, CodeOfWisden said:

Actually having Jordan at 10 actually helps, if you saw last match vs Pakistan our team would have lost the match if we would have left 8 runs for our tailenders. 

Batting depth helps a lot in t20, you can't deny that. 

it helps but bairstrow n roy dont bat quicker coz he is at 10 . they bat sameway wherever they play.

In a t20 game since thats where is regular , no.10 will hardly come to bat so no top order batsman bat thinknig jodan will save us.

 

Out top 3 baiscally bats  safe....even if u give them woakes , archer or jordan

Edited July 23, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03

[maniac]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

it helps but bairstrow n roy dont bat quicker coz he is at 10 . they bat sameway wherever they play.

In a t20 game since thats where is regular , no.10 will hardly come to bat so no top order batsman bat thinknig jodan will save us.

 

Out top 3 baiscally bats  safe....even if u give them woakes , archer or jordan

We have a lot of compromises to make for the combo too, we found Sky but he can’t bowl and is a okayish fielder on the other hand Livingstone can bowl, Shaw is useless apart from batting and that too is suspect against quality spin and pace, Kishen and Samson’s utility is keeping and we already have Pant.

 

Our problem is not just depth but players who are excellent in one department and useless elsewhere or bits and pieces cricketers who cannot be relied upon.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, maniac said:

We have a lot of compromises to make for the combo too, we found Sky but he can’t bowl and is a okayish fielder on the other hand Livingstone can bowl, Shaw is useless apart from batting and that too is suspect against quality spin and pace, Kishen and Samson’s utility is keeping and we already have Pant.

 

Our problem is not just depth but players who are excellent in one department and useless elsewhere or bits and pieces cricketers who cannot be relied upon.

 

im telling u give them what u say they ll bat same its ingrained in their nature as batsman ...both lack flexibility in every way

If u see bairstrow bats for his team at 4 in t20s being an opener...these guys wont change their position to 

 

Its just in the nature , individual over team is the problem not depth or anything

[maniac]

.

Edited July 23, 2021 by maniac
Wrong thread

[maniac]

[prudent_kreeda]

Even england did not get success up front . they changed the approach post 2015 WC and were struggling almost till 2017 end. 

Started doing better from 2018.

Their batters were poor vs spin then.

What they did right -

1.they chose select few players and backed them continuously throughout and today likes of Bairstow , Butler , Stokes have become monsters.

2. They always picked players who suit Short format game and not based on statistically good players .

2. There was a clear plan what they lacked and they worked on those for years .

3. Ordinary spinners through their hardwork have become much better bowlers  Eg: Adil Rashid , even Moin is decent esp vs Lefties.

4. Led by a captain who is selfless and always on the look out for giving chances to new guys to build a team even dropping himself from games.

 

India still has not adopted aggressive approach fully . One defeat & they will change it again. 

Post WCT20 there should be change in team captain , players and also a commitment to adopt modern method .

We may see better results after 15 -18 months on a consistent basis with that aggressive approach. , till then should be ready for periodic  bust ups along the way. .

[Ankit_sharma03]

47 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

We may see better results after 15 -18 months on a consistent basis with that aggressive approach. , till then should be ready for periodic  bust ups along the way. .

exactly and they still see those all of sudden collapses like in Indian series may be in 1st or 2nd ODI but they stick by it and look for players who fit the plan.

In t20 , they have looked beyond root (the guy is among fab 4) 

They send butler to open demoting bairstrow here for longest time our TM fear picking KL over dhawan 

 

They have a plan and no individual is bigger then their plan

[maniac]

15 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

exactly and they still see those all of sudden collapses like in Indian series may be in 1st or 2nd ODI but they stick by it and look for players who fit the plan.

In t20 , they have looked beyond root (the guy is among fab 4) 

They send butler to open demoting bairstrow here for longest time our TM fear picking KL over dhawan 

 

They have a plan and no individual is bigger then their plan

England had Lewis Gregory come in and win a match with bat and took top order wickets and we have Chetan Sakariya who bowls like Gregory but can’t bat and field.

 

We need multi dimensional cricketers first even before attacking 6 hitters to change approach. England if you remember had guys like Stokes,Woakes,Butler,Bairstow,Morgan,Root,Moeen Ali,Jordan the core players from 2014-2015 onwards even before their attitude change. They just plugged this young core with some dynamic cricketers. They didn’t bring players out of the blue. All the players I mentioned are mostly multi dimensional cricketers.

 

an Abdul Samad if he turns out the way you expect him too will fit great as a the 6th or 7th bowler at best  and at 6-8 batsman or a floater depending on situation. if he has that cushion, he can come in express freely. We already are using Pandya for that role, now adding another guy like that what do you think will do the strength of the team?

 

Morgan, Root,Stokes all are capable of hitting 100’s

 

Woakes,Ali have test level 5frs

 

Even Hales had daddy 100’s

 

Bairstow and Butler are test class players.

 

May be you can say Roy is a little bit like Shaw/Samson

 

As I said the other day pick a X1 without Rohit and Kohli for WT20 and we would all be spending time praying when we play Pakistan or in another must win game.

 

To even be a dynamic player you still need to show a certain class and acumen to run through sides with the ball or score big 100’s.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by maniac

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 minutes ago, maniac said:

England had Lewis Gregory come in and win a match with bat and took top order wickets and we have Chetan Sakariya who bowls like Gregory but can’t bat and field.

 

We need multi dimensional cricketers first even before attacking 6 hitters to change approach. England if you remember had guys like Stokes,Woakes,Butler,Bairstow,Morgan,Root,Moeen Ali,Jordan the core players from 2014-2015 onwards even before their attitude change. They just plugged this young core with some dynamic cricketers. They didn’t bring players out of the blue. All the players I mentioned are mostly multi dimensional cricketers.

 

an Abdul Samad if he turns out the way you expect him too will fit great as a the 6th or 7th bowler at best  and at 6-8 batsman or a floater depending on situation. if he has that cushion, he can come in express freely. We already are using Pandya for that role, now adding another guy like that what do you think will do the strength of the team?

 

Morgan, Root,Stokes all are capable of hitting 100’s

 

Woakes,Ali have test level 5frs

 

Even Hales had daddy 100’s

 

Bairstow and Butler are test class players.

 

May be you can say Roy is a little bit like Shaw/Samson

 

As I said the other day pick a X1 without Rohit and Kohli for WT20 and we would all be spending time praying when we play Pakistan or in another must win game.

 

To even be a dynamic player you need to show a certain class and acumen to run through sides with the ball or score big 100’s.

 

 

ur stuck with the same excuse im saying give them same england lower middle n tail and they ll bat same coz problem lies in attitude which is everywhere even their non flexibility of batting order which even sachin had . 

We are grown upon sense of individualism over team , for us 100s are more important then impact. Ppl are obsessed with 100s including u 

 

1st middle order was an excuse now tail, and im saying give them that and they ll still bat same coz that now is their game

 

forget aggresive intent are these guys even flexible to bat anywhere else like the names ur mentioning ?? 

I wont change their position, u knw why coz i knw they wont work that well anywhere else coz in their head they aint ready to adjust

Edited July 24, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ur stuck with the same excuse im saying give them same england lower middle n tail and they ll bat same coz problem lies in attitude which is everywhere even their non flexibility of batting order which even sachin had . 

We are grown upon sense of individualism over team , for us 100s are more important then impact. Ppl are obsessed with 100s including u 

 

1st middle order was an excuse now tail, and im saying give them that and they ll still bat same coz that now is their game

A guy who can hit a 100 can play a cameo but a guy who can play cameos will always be hit or miss.

 

A player has to be refined. When you hit a 100 you develop as a batsman, hitting 20-30

all your life will never make you a cricketer.

 

Just like bowling 2-3 overs won’t develop your bowling acumen.

 

I just showed you that every England cricketer part of their dynamic  group is also a test level cricketer, not just some cameo Player.

 

Even Pakistan their most dangerous  T20 player is Hafeez who used to be a decent test cricketer (for their standards)

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 minutes ago, maniac said:

As I said the other day pick a X1 without Rohit and Kohli for WT20 and we would all be spending time praying when we play Pakistan or in another must win game.

Gosh can u ever not think in extreme

Im not saying drop them, doesnt mean they shudnt improve . The same needs to be done by Babar n Rizwan doesnt mean u drop them. 

 

A team will never progress if it doesnt improve in every area which also includes best players and its them who are holding us back . 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

A guy who can hit a 100 can play a cameo but a guy who can play cameos will always be hit or miss.

 

A player has to be refined. When you hit a 100 you develop as a batsman, hitting 20-30

all your life will never make you a cricketer.

 

Just like bowling 2-3 overs won’t develop your bowling acumen.

 

Again this cameo is ur extremism - 

shaw, sky are new and with time they ll learn to score big , its not that they dont know how to score 100s. Shaw scored a 100 on his debut 

 

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

I just showed you that every England cricketer part of their dynamic  group is also a test level cricketer, not just some cameo Player.

 

Even Pakistan their most dangerous  T20 player is Hafeez who used to be a decent test cricketer (for their standards)

 

Roy isnt

Moeen ali is out 

hales isnt even in any squad

Bairstrow in n out 

butler inconsistent in test and have been verge of loosing his place so many times

livingstone , billings not in test 

Sam curran in n out

 

they all r in n out .....if thats the case- dhawan, pandya, pant, kuldeep all have been part of test setup

 

how does being in test setup helps white ball cricket ?? England test setup is completely different now

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Again this cameo is ur extremism - 

shaw, sky are new and with time they ll learn to score big , its not that they dont know how to score 100s. Shaw scored a 100 on his debut 

 

 

Roy isnt

Moeen ali is out 

hales isnt even in any squad

Bairstrow in n out 

butler inconsistent in test and have been verge of loosing his place so many times

livingstone , billings not in test 

Sam curran in n out

 

they all r in n out .....if thats the case- dhawan, pandya, pant, kuldeep all have been part of test setup

 

how does being in test setup helps white ball cricket ?? England test setup is completely different now

I said test level cricketer

not test cricketers. Read again . Which means Some one good enough to even play tests. Again same thing multi-dimensional cricketer. That doesn’t mean someone who can bat-bowl-field but also can adapt. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

I said test level cricketer

not test cricketers. Read again . Which means Some one good enough to even play tests. Again same thing multi-dimensional cricketer. That doesn’t mean someone who can bat-bowl-field but also can adapt. 

n what diff does playing test makes in red ball ??

If thats what u think is what makes diff then a guy like Iyer isnt even part of test setup so shud we not look at him

 

White ball cricket needs white ball skills 

 

Adapting doesnt mean only surving in white ball- it also means scoring quick when needed, variations , range . 

Surviving will only be needed once in 20 games in white ball

 

 

ur definition are from 80s cricket 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03

[rollingstoned]

22 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ur stuck with the same excuse im saying give them same england lower middle n tail and they ll bat same coz problem lies in attitude which is everywhere even their non flexibility of batting order which even sachin had . 

We are grown upon sense of individualism over team , for us 100s are more important then impact. Ppl are obsessed with 100s including u 

 

In the main you are right but this approach can change if we suffer a bad defeat as a knee jerk reaction like we saw in the England odi series when the top 3 tried batting aggressively. In an important knockout game though there is next to no chance they play adventurous cricket. Infact kohli will probably stick to the 'safe' opening option he seems to think is the solution for the team because he feels someone has to bat through the innings which in itself is outdated thinking.

Edited July 24, 2021 by rollingstoned

[maniac]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

n what diff does playing test makes in red ball ??

If thats what u think is what makes diff then a guy like Iyer isnt even part of test setup so shud we not look at him

 

White ball cricket needs white ball skills 

 

Adapting doesnt mean only surving in white ball- it also means scoring quick when needed, variations , range . 

Surviving will only be needed once in 20 games in white ball

 

ur definition are from 80s cricket 

you are not getting my point still

 

I am not saying give Pujara a T20 slot.

 

I am saying back players who are good enough to play in all 3 formats because those will be the real match winners. These “specialists”

will always be hit or miss. That’s the point I was making with the name of England’s core players I just gave. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by maniac

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

In the main you are right but this approach can change if we suffer a bad defeat as a knee jerk reaction like we saw in the England odi series when the top 3 tried batting aggressively. In an important knockout game though there is next to no chance they play adventurous cricket. Infact kohli will probably stick to the 'safe' opening option he seems to think is the solution for the team because he feels someone has to bat through the innings which in itself is outdated thinking.

 

we won the series didnt we?

 

Patience is important