U19 World Cup Discussion

[sandeep]

25 minutes ago, Jay said:

pandya is not a phasst bowler let alone a fast bowler. 

 

Guy constantly averaged bowling speeds of around 140k, and is not considered 'phaast' because he doesn't "look" it.  Height of ignorance.  Kuch bhi bolo.  

 

 

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/news/icc-under-19-world-cup-how-andhra-cricket-adopted-humble-shaik-rasheed/articleshow/89336544.cms

 

Great story for Indian cricket.  

 

May more Rasheeds make it through from humble beginnings to First Class cricket, IPL and beyond.  

 

I do not love T20 cricket as much as some, but am forever grateful to how the IPL has revolutionized the Indian cricket economy.  

 

Wow. That's good stuff. Hope he takes first class seriously. I believe outside IPL, first class obviously should pay the most. Most ranji players are doing quite well these days. 

[Jay]

Just now, sandeep said:

 

Guy constantly averaged bowling speeds of around 140k, and is not considered 'phaast' because he doesn't "look" it.  Height of ignorance.  Kuch bhi bolo.  

 

 

Averaged 140 for ? When? For 2 overs? 

I dont consider anyone phasst let alone fast if they don't touch 138 plus consistently in tests. It's all about tests. Test matches test your skills. It tests your endurance. 

 

There are 5 categories of pace. 

 

Fast

Phasst

Fast medium

Medium

Bhuvi pace 

 

Phasst is generally reserved for brainless moron esque fast bowlers who operate like headless chickens with wayward bowling. 

[Jay]

Pandya averaged 140 rofl. And then he woke up I suppose.

[sandeep]

35 minutes ago, Jay said:

Pandya averaged 140 rofl. And then he woke up I suppose.

you can 'rofl' all you want, i'm not a stats hound but there used to be aggregate data on pace available. He's consistently bowled in the high 130s.  And often hit 140.   I'm referring to white ball stuff.  Agree with you that test cricket is the bar - not sure about his overall speed averages there tbh, but he was quick enough for a 4th pacer.   

 

Its one thing to hold an opinion - just be ready to accept the correction if it comes through - I'm sure somebody on the forum will provide the info on Pandya's bowling speeds...

[Jay]

17 minutes ago, sandeep said:

you can 'rofl' all you want, i'm not a stats hound but there used to be aggregate data on pace available. He's consistently bowled in the high 130s.  And often hit 140.   I'm referring to white ball stuff.  Agree with you that test cricket is the bar - not sure about his overall speed averages there tbh, but he was quick enough for a 4th pacer.   

 

Its one thing to hold an opinion - just be ready to accept the correction if it comes through - I'm sure somebody on the forum will provide the info on Pandya's bowling speeds...

white ball? are you sure 140 on average? i dont think thats possible. lot of top fast bowlers barely average a few points above 140. quickest i have ever seen him on average was 134 ish in 2019 WC. On average i.e. 

I am quite aware of speed gun readings. i love pace bowling. I dont care about these one off 150 plus balls like these dumb padosis. I look at average pace. Average pace is the only aspect that matters when it comes to pace readings. 

 

pandya is talented. No one is denying that. For LOI i mean. I hope he can get his pace back. we need a fully fit pandya to win the WC. pandya is one guy that strikes me as mentally strong. But in terms of pace, I dont think he has ever hit 140 on average. Sure he can bowl some balls over 140 but that would be effort balls. 

[sandeep]

Just now, Jay said:

are you sure 140 on average?

I said high 130s on average.  I'm reasonably confident that if you put aside his attempted slower balls, his bowling average will be well north of 135, i..e closer to 140 than to 135.  

 

 

[Jay]

10 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I said high 130s on average.  I'm reasonably confident that if you put aside his attempted slower balls, his bowling average will be well north of 135, i..e closer to 140 than to 135.  

 

 

well lets hope he gets fully fit. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Jay

[Vijy]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:08 AM, express bowling said:

 

 

Dhull and Rasheed are good.

 

But Rasheed will probably be a classical player.

 

 

rasheed cannot become a full-fledged player until he further develops back-foot game. raghuvansh is about a yr younger (than rashid) and also has some things he needs to work on, but he feels a bit more finished. we need at least a couple of test-type players in future, so hopefully some of current batch move in that direction.

[SRT100]

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

Fitness <> bulk.  

 

There are different body types and peak fitness, excellent health will look different in different bodies.  

 

Too many folks put unnecessary importance on "looking" fit rather than being fit.  Cricket is not weight lifting.  A lean, wiry athletic build is absolutely fine.  And judging 18 year old kids before they properly fill out is the height of ignorance.  

 

Its crucially important that a scientific approach to fitness, strength and conditioning is taken for these top talents in India. Even the weirdo Shoaib Akhtar was at his best when he was leaner.  He put on bulk, ruined his body and his career.  

 

This lack of confidence and knowledge about fitness, and body types, translates into insecurity and such nonsense about "feminine" body etc.   Fitness is about efficacy, not appearances.

 

Your comments are so highly ignorant and backward you failed to appreciate the main issue in here that has been highlighted by several posters.

 

These u19 players, need to develop themselves both physically and mentally. Your total lack of understanding of weight lifting is fully appreciated here, as I can tell you dont understand the benefits.

Lifting weights is not just about building muscle, its about developing a fitness base, its about discipline, its about strengthening muscles, ligaments, tendons and bones. Importantly this has to be incorporated with a rich diet in nutrition.

 

Youre nonsense posts just highlighted to me and made it to me crystal clear you dont understand nor have the capacity to comprehend the benefits of a weights program.

 

Indian players are notoriously known for years to break down consistently, I am beginning to see why now.

[SRT100]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

That's life in India. No access to proper nutrition and diet. Most don't even eat much meat. Even when they do, they will skip meat and eggs on certain days of the week. Quantity consumed is low. 

 

Standard of living is poor India. Cricket is also a niche sport. Only the upper middle class can afford it. The random ones that get through scholarships are rare. To get to good cricket schools, you will be required to travel far etc. 

 

Considering all our issues plus politics and quotas when it comes to selection process, we have done really well to be number 1 in tests for 5 years straight. Sure, we can dominate for longer if we actually pick our best players but we worship seniors and celebrities, so we won't rebuild until they wilfully retire. 

 

Hangerakar and vats have good builds. They are our real prospects in bowling tbh. 

 

This doctrine of skipping meat and eggs etc has to change.

 

More money needs to be invested in our youth that show that they are highly skilled, for nutrition and physically training.

 

The problem that I see is that too many of Indian players get access to rich resources too late in life, by the time they turn 21, 22, their bones have stopped growing, they havent had the benefits of nutrition and gym training from an early age to lay a foundation to build on in their 20s.

 

I appreciate life in India and how hard it is and can be. It saddens me. However, with kids that make it to academies, these are the kids where we need to pour resources into to make sure they develop strongly and properly.

 

You mention middle class and above, but there are many stories of poor lower caste and class cricketers that have made it. In fact I would use these players as the benchmarks and ambassadors to understand and preach what it would take.

[Jay]

17 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

Your comments are so highly ignorant and backward you failed to appreciate the main issue in here that has been highlighted by several posters.

 

These u19 players, need to develop themselves both physically and mentally. Your total lack of understanding of weight lifting is fully appreciated here, as I can tell you dont understand the benefits.

Lifting weights is not just about building muscle, its about developing a fitness base, its about discipline, its about strengthening muscles, ligaments, tendons and bones. Importantly this has to be incorporated with a rich diet in nutrition.

 

Youre nonsense posts just highlighted to me and made it to me crystal clear you dont understand nor have the capacity to comprehend the benefits of a weights program.

 

Indian players are notoriously known for years to break down consistently, I am beginning to see why now.

When you are young, imo you should do it all together. Weight training, sport specific training, cricket practice. Your recovery is a lot better when you are young. If you are a mature aged player then focus on weight training for off season. Then sport specific training during season. 

These young Indian boys neglect weight training a bit. Some boys are well built though like hangerkar vats etc. Bear in mind there is a fine line between being gym strong and functionally strong. Never go overboard with muscle building. You build strength and if muscle gains is produced organically through your strength program then so be it. Those muscles will prevent injuries and strengthen tendons etc. It has to be strength based training induced. Not body building that uses a totally different approach. BB obviously uses hypertrophy. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Jay

[Jay]

7 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

This doctrine of skipping meat and eggs etc has to change.

 

More money needs to be invested in our youth that show that they are highly skilled, for nutrition and physically training.

 

The problem that I see is that too many of Indian players get access to rich resources too late in life, by the time they turn 21, 22, their bones have stopped growing, they havent had the benefits of nutrition and gym training from an early age to lay a foundation to build on in their 20s.

 

I appreciate life in India and how hard it is and can be. It saddens me. However, with kids that make it to academies, these are the kids where we need to pour resources into to make sure they develop strongly and properly.

 

You mention middle class and above, but there are many stories of poor lower caste and class cricketers that have made it. In fact I would use these players as the benchmarks and ambassadors to understand and preach what it would take.

I swear I 100% believe if lot of these Indian kids from rural areas have access to proper nutrition, they are capable of excelling in all kinds of sports. The kids from rural areas that have done hard labour in their youth have natural strength and power. It's sad to see how limited their access to proper nutrition is. 

[SRT100]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

I swear I 100% believe if lot of these Indian kids from rural areas have access to proper nutrition, they are capable of excelling in all kinds of sports. The kids from rural areas that have done hard labour in their youth have natural strength and power. It's sad to see how limited their access to proper nutrition is. 

 

Look at my gym I see two Indian kids that are 17 and 18 and they definitely 100% stronger and bigger than any Indian cricketer that I have seen at those junior levels. Hell they look stronger than the men in our current team.

 

Im not saying they are huge or bulky but that they have developed a strong frame to protect and guard them from the rigors of sport.

 

I dont deny rural kids are not physically stronger and also mentally stronger too given their environments. Until nutrition is addressed properly, they will fail.

[SRT100]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

When you are young, imo you should do it all together. Weight training, sport specific training, cricket practice. Your recovery is a lot better when you are young. If you are a mature aged player then focus on weight training for off season. Then sport specific training during season. 

These young Indian boys neglect weight training a bit. Some boys are well built though like hangerkar vats etc. Bear in mind there is a fine line between being gym strong and functionally strong. Never go overboard with muscle building. You build strength and if muscle gains is produced organically through your strength program then so be it. Those muscles will prevent injuries and strengthen tendons etc. It has to be strength based training induced. Not body building that uses a totally different approach. BB obviously uses hypertrophy. 

 

Yes, correct thats my point entirely.

 

Im not advocating at all that these kids become a body builder or bulky or huge (worst body types to compete in sports), weight training is not just about lifting weights, there is a physical and mental application, not to mention the discipline and "spiritual" aspect of training to deal with mental health issues.

 

I just cant believe the negative comments by one or two posters about weight training, it highlighted for me the foolishness and stupidity about not understanding the importance of weight training.

 

In essence a weight training program protects your body from injuries.

 

If anyone wants to see the physical difference in appearance of the u19 players, watch the India v Aust u19 semi final to get an idea. Some will argue that India had won and have been wining at this level for many years.

 

My response to this, is what have the Indian men won in ICC tournaments over the last 10 years.

 

 

 

 

[Jay]

11 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

Look at my gym I see two Indian kids that are 17 and 18 and they definitely 100% stronger and bigger than any Indian cricketer that I have seen at those junior levels. Hell they look stronger than the men in our current team.

 

Im not saying they are huge or bulky but that they have developed a strong frame to protect and guard them from the rigors of sport.

 

I dont deny rural kids are not physically stronger and also mentally stronger too given their environments. Until nutrition is addressed properly, they will fail.

You are what you eat. Take car for example. Why not put diesel in your vehicle that requires unleaded petrol. It would malfunction obviously. 

Same with our bodies. What you consume matters. 

 

You can do all the strength training etc. You can be as strong and fast etc but if you don't eat the right foods you won't reach your optimal potential in terms of performance. You can still be good but never great. You will suffer in some aspects like maintaining endurance if your nutrition isn't on point. 

[Jay]

7 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

Yes, correct thats my point entirely.

 

Im not advocating at all that these kids become a body builder or bulky or huge (worst body types to compete in sports), weight training is not just about lifting weights, there is a physical and mental application, not to mention the discipline and "spiritual" aspect of training to deal with mental health issues.

 

I just cant believe the negative comments by one or two posters about weight training, it highlighted for me the foolishness and stupidity about not understanding the importance of weight training.

 

In essence a weight training program protects your body from injuries.

 

If anyone wants to see the physical difference in appearance of the u19 players, watch the India v Aust u19 semi final to get an idea. Some will argue that India had won and have been wining at this level for many years.

 

My response to this, is what have the Indian men won in ICC tournaments over the last 10 years.

 

 

 

 

Well we were number 1 in tests for 5 years straight lool. 

 

I agree though. Just imagine their potential if they take weight training seriously though? Untapped potential. That's something they don't want want comprehend. I dont know why. 

 

You can do anything. Any sort of exercises. Doesn't have to be weights even. Go with sandbags. Perhaps axe chopping, sledgehammer, Sled pushing, axle bar, yoke walks. More functional the better. 

[First class]

Indian juniors have shown wonderful big match temperament , that would be a big  factor in their chances of winning the final , The way their batsmen built the inning against Australia after early losses and paced it wonderfully later it was amazing for young players. 

[SRT100]

13 minutes ago, First class said:

Indian juniors have shown wonderful big match temperament , that would be a big  factor in their chances of winning the final , The way their batsmen built the inning against Australia after early losses and paced it wonderfully later it was amazing for young players. 

Correct.

 

Give me a highly skilled player with a good match temperament any day over a physically stronger player.

 

I think these kids could be something great, we need to really nurture and carefully develop this talent.

 

This team should be used to form the template for our 2027 World Cup team.

 

You then couple the u19 team with players like Pant, Kishan, Sundar, Prasidh, Bishnoi, Gaikwad to form the squad for the 2027 WC.

 

Have I missed out on anyone? Ideally we want the squad to have players definitely all well under 32 in a perfect world.

 

I would also like to see the BCCI richly reward any player that can play as the role of an all rounder so we can accommodate the most superior and intimidating batting lineup.

 

Ideally this team has players that can bat at 8 and 9 that can win us the game. Thats dangerous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Vijy@express bowling@raki05

[nsareen]

So it’s time for India U19’s to play one last good game, & get the title in their hands… won’t be easy with England having an all round team and similar strengths… India will have to find inspiration and 2-3 folks from
batting / bowling will have to put up their hand..


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