Impressions about Ishan Kishen

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

pace bounce seedha aayega to koi problem nhin but agar fass ke aayega ya extra kick or movement hoga pitch men tab problem hogi usi

Like MCG has been spongy , dnt know currently whats the scene in t20 if they use drop in ...in case it is spongy then he can be in problem 

the problem is Ishan hasn’t played outside of SC conditons a lot. He either gets slow or low pitches or absolute pattas. It becomes very tough to assess his skills.

 

We are programmed to think Dhawan is way better because we have seen Dhawan in SENA in white ball playing some match winning knocks.

 

I hope BCCI let’s some white ball specialists play in BBL, hundred etc.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, maniac said:

the problem is Ishan hasn’t played outside of SC conditons a lot. He either gets slow or low pitches or absolute pattas. It becomes very tough to assess his skills.

 

We are programmed to think Dhawan is way better because we have seen Dhawan in SENA in white ball playing some match winning knocks.

 

I hope BCCI let’s some white ball specialists play in BBL, hundred etc.

 

In India u get variety of pitches , u have to adjust . Like last yr in chennai IPL leg he cudnt adjust then IPL-2 in UAE pitches were slow he struggled again

More the BBL, CPL will help him coz he ll have to adjust on many of those 2 pace wkts 

 

Dhawan is better coz obv he is proven 

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

dhawan is already out of t20 , why are u bringing him

He wasnt even part of last t20 WC

 

Other than that Shaw/Ruturaj are other options. Ruturaj is no different from Kishan in terms of pacing the innings. Shaw can look good when he comes off. But he is also capable of getting out very first ball. KL Rahul must bat in the middle order. It is a given Rohit more often than not will take time except on a few occasions. He needs an aggressive partner.  That is the role he is developing Kishan for. My guess.  It is a different matter whether he will justify that faith.

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

More the BBL, CPL will help him coz he ll have to adjust on many of those 2 pace wkts 

 

Dhawan is better coz obv he is proven 

I specifically said BBL because facing Cummins, Starc, Nortje, Shaheen, Rabada will be different on Aussie pitches even the flat ones compared to Indian flat pitches and for some reason I feel Kishen will struggle with the bounce.

[Adamant]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

pace bounce seedha aayega to koi problem nhin but agar fass ke aayega ya extra kick or movement hoga pitch men tab problem hogi usi

Like MCG has been spongy , dnt know currently whats the scene in t20 if they use drop in ...in case it is spongy then he can be in problem 

Most of the pressure games we lose in Tournaments are due to the opposition's new ball bowlers moving the ball around. 

 

I know we create a lot of noise about batting with Intent but we hardly lose in tournaments due to that reason, Kishan's weakness are exactly the same which we want to counter. 

 

Imagine him batting against Shaheen/Boult when there's lateral movement. 

 

Also most Indian batsman are good against raw pace these days, Ishan is good in that aspect too but.. He isn't great against bouncers, I am saying this from whatever I have seen till now. 

 

Now combine this with weakness against tight spin bowling, I am not sure if he should open for India. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Dhawan has lived half his career on edge? LOL The guy played 50 T20Is for India despite sucking at it except for a 15 month period. In ODIs, he has had a free run since 2013 not having to bat outside the top 2 a single time. Plus the very fact that his own career SR in last 3-4 years is a good 7-8 points below how he was doing prior to that while the ODI games has moved forward is the reason why we need to move on from him. Interestingly the average in the same period is 8-9 points above the earlier average. Lower SR and higher average, I don't want to say much.

 

We can only move forward from dhawan if we find someone better which is only pant currently 

Dhawan had a free ride in ODI ???  Ru kidding me ?? do u knw wtf is free ride...he performed so he earned it. Why wud he bat outside top 2...........he is an opener 

 

3 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

As for Kishan's adaptability in 50 over game, he's hardly played for India. I wouldn't judge him yet. Has a good enough List A average,so nothing wrong in giving him opportunities. If he does well in T20Is, he will cary the same confidence to ODIs too.

 

yes Dhawan has been many times on edge to have been dropped

Why are u bringing t20, dhawan was a failure in t20. We aint comparing dhawan vs kishen in t20 coz dhawan already lost that battle 

 

Their are enough sample to see kishen lack of adaptability

Last yr IPL leg-1 chennai - struggled

Last yr IPL leg 2 - UAE pitches were slow again struggled

Recent india-Wi series- pitches werent that easy until dew fell a lot in 2nd again didnt adjust 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

I specifically said BBL because facing Cummins, Starc, Nortje, Shaheen, Rabada will be different on Aussie pitches even the flat ones compared to Indian flat pitches and for some reason I feel Kishen will struggle with the bounce.

none of them play BBL 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

the problem is Ishan hasn’t played outside of SC conditons a lot. He either gets slow or low pitches or absolute pattas. It becomes very tough to assess his skills.

 

We are programmed to think Dhawan is way better because we have seen Dhawan in SENA in white ball playing some match winning knocks.

 

I hope BCCI let’s some white ball specialists play in BBL, hundred etc.

 

Kishan did okay in the A game against SA team in SA against the likes Marco Jansen. 91 & 49 in the 2 innings he played.

[ShoonyaSifar]

11 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

May be u need to read properly , this is what annoys...adhe post padh ke reply krna . Also im not saying he is weak ...his numbers are screaming that he is weak 

Also what good spinner did lanka have

jayawickramsingha is a test bowler mostly who flights 

Chase bowls fast n flat and so does stahir 

What is the sample size of those stats? vs SLA, how why deliveries has he faced Likewise for offspin. 

 

Tu aadhe adhure stats mat post kiya kar, if you want to respond after reading full posts

[ShoonyaSifar]

12 minutes ago, maniac said:

the problem is Ishan hasn’t played outside of SC conditons a lot. He either gets slow or low pitches or absolute pattas. It becomes very tough to assess his skills.

 

We are programmed to think Dhawan is way better because we have seen Dhawan in SENA in white ball playing some match winning knocks.

 

I hope BCCI let’s some white ball specialists play in BBL, hundred etc.

Why are we expecting 22-23 year olds to be complete batsmen/ players? Our current and ex-captains were themselves very inconsistent at that age yet got the backing of their then captains and coaches to develop, learn and evolve as players. These youngsters deserve the same support.

Edited February 24, 2022 by ShoonyaSifar

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Other than that Shaw/Ruturaj are other options. Ruturaj is no different from Kishan in terms of pacing the innings. Shaw can look good when he comes off. But he is also capable of getting out very first ball. KL Rahul must bat in the middle order. It is a given Rohit more often than not will take time except on a few occasions. He needs an aggressive partner.  That is the role he is developing Kishan for. My guess.  It is a different matter whether he will justify that faith.

Rutu is very diff from kishen. 

Kishen bats quick very quick unless he gets stuck................which anyways when any batsman gets stuck he cant do much

 

Rutu on other hand has been the most hyped option- not that he has done anythng wrong , he has piled on runs consistently. |But wanting him for fast starts is such a wrong idea. His s/r in IPL in PP is 114 ...........thats it

Rutu pacing is similar to KL (who intentionally bats slow) and rohit (who hasnt done anything in IPL for last 5 yrs yet has 126 s/r ) ...........so he cant be the solution

 

Reason kishen is backed coz he has all the right tools but  problem is his adjustments , u cannot bat same way on every pitch as if its chinnaswamy of old 

 

For fast start only - Shaw-kishen-pant 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

What is the sample size of those stats? vs SLA, how why deliveries has he faced Likewise for offspin. 

 

Tu aadhe adhure stats mat post kiya kar, if you want to respond after reading full posts

bete wo pure IPL ke stats hai............jaake dekh le online avl hai 

ab tu bolega wo ipl men khela kitna hai 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Why are we expecting 22-23 year olds to be complete batsmen/ players? Our current and ex-captains were themselves very inconsistent at that age yet got the backing of their then captains and coaches to develop, learn and evolve as players. These youngsters deserve the same support.

if urnt complete batsman then dnt talk about replace the ones who are doing well, u can back guys like pant despite his inconsistency coz he has scored 100s in diff conditions

he is getting enough support just need to improve areas which was the point of the post

 

lekin nhin tumko har cheez black or white hi dekhni hai, constructive analysis men to zyaada dimaag kharach hota hai

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Why are we expecting 22-23 year olds to be complete batsmen/ players? Our current and ex-captains were themselves very inconsistent at that age yet got the backing of their then captains and coaches to develop, learn and evolve as players. These youngsters deserve the same support.

if urnt complete batsman then dnt talk about replace the ones who are doing well, u can back guys like pant despite his inconsistency coz he has scored 100s in diff conditions

he is getting enough support just need to improve areas which was the point of the post

 

lekin nhin tumko har cheez black or white hi dekhni hai, constructive analysis men to zyaada dimaag kharach hota hai

[ShoonyaSifar]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

We can only move forward from dhawan if we find someone better which is only pant currently 

Dhawan had a free ride in ODI ???  Ru kidding me ?? do u knw wtf is free ride...he performed so he earned it. Why wud he bat outside top 2...........he is an opener 

 

 

yes Dhawan has been many times on edge to have been dropped

Why are u bringing t20, dhawan was a failure in t20. We aint comparing dhawan vs kishen in t20 coz dhawan already lost that battle 

 

Their are enough sample to see kishen lack of adaptability

Last yr IPL leg-1 chennai - struggled

Last yr IPL leg 2 - UAE pitches were slow again struggled

Recent india-Wi series- pitches werent that easy until dew fell a lot in 2nd again didnt adjust 

 

Lets agree to disagree on both Dhawan and Ishan. 

 

I've said this earlier, will say it again, if even two out of Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli play in any of the the two upcoming WCs, we will be doomed again (while the old washed-up players will merrily hit some personal milestones like in SA ODIs). Essentially saying only Rohit should play the T20 WC and if we fail to win it, even he shouldn't play the 23 WC. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Kishan's weakness are exactly the same which we want to counter. 

 

Imagine him batting against Shaheen/Boult when there's lateral movement. 

Exactly 

Even shaw, slight bit of movement n even they ll struggle 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

I've said this earlier, will say it again, if even two out of Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli play in any of the the two upcoming WCs, we will be doomed again

ok lets disagree and we are winning one or may be even both the coming Wcs . (dhawan wont play t20)

Edited February 24, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

20 minutes ago, maniac said:

I hope BCCI let’s some white ball specialists play in BBL, hundred etc.

yes , 100 will soon be worlds 2nd best league 

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ok lets disagree and we are winning one or may be even both the coming Wcs . (dhawan wont play t20)

Dhawan won't play the 23 WC either. For a 36 year old, 20 months is a long long time.

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Exactly 

Even shaw, slight bit of movement n even they ll struggle 

 

None of our batsman are moving ball specialists.  India just needs to have depth in case of a collapse. If you lose a wicket of Kishan up the order it is not a great loss. But losing KL Rahul is a bigger loss.