What happened to the part timer?

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, Majestic said:

Hanuma Vihari is the part timer we have now. He has got three wickets in one match in England.

he started off as a genuine part-timer and his bowling has gone downhill. moreover, he is not an assured starter unlike brathwaite, root, kane chucker, etc.

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Iyer is just an example. I don't say he should be used. We are talking about development of such part timers.  We are  merely comparing with older generation bowlers like Raina, Sehwag, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Yuvraj who all could chip in a over or two.  Their main trade was batting. Infact Yuvraj was our frontline bowler in WC 2011. We don't use them because nobody is willing to learn new skills. If Jadhav at an old age could develop a completely new skill why not our batsmen.  I don't think our players have the eagerness to develop their skills.  Guys like Markram, Maxwell open the bowling for heavensake with just 2 fielders outside inside power play.  The reason we don't have part timers is not because of the rules. It is because we don't have any.  Only option we have is bits and pieces players like Jaddu, Hooda.

maxwell has the skills , even if our guys do they dont have that skill

even markram has it

Yes most are reluctant but stills rules have made it tough, yuvi wudnt and wasnt bowling in current and sehwag also wud have been taken to cleaners unless it was turning square. Riyan parag is developing skills but ppl laugh at him . Hooda has the skills

Old style spin bowling dont work in ODI now , finger spinners are becoming a rarity ur talking about part time finger spinner. Even someone like joe root bowls carrom ball now 

 

Jaddu is not bits n piece - anyone who can bowl 10 overs day i day out is not bits n pieces 

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 hours ago, maniac said:

i meant parttimer in Sachin, Saurav, Yuvraj mode. Who can give you 10 overs once in a while, good for 6-7 overs at max. Remember Sachin was the designated 5th bowler in the early 90’s and if you ask who can unplayable magic  deliveries he had more ability than Jaddu and Pandya combined. As I said if they were half as good as batters our bowling unit will be magical as we can get better specialist bowlers. However in T20 generation Pandya is alright but he is not a reliable regular bowler and so isn’t Jaddu in LOIs 

 

Yuvi the loi bowler > Jadeja the loi bowler and we don’t even have to go to batting.

pandya became a regular bowler until problem happened with fitness which is also the case with stokes n marsh now . Stokes bowls less in LOI due to his elbow issue and marsh is one the most injury prone guy in history. Even watson had to cut down his pace due to regular back injuries

Had jadeja bowled in old rules he wud have been such a better ODI bowler, had yuvi bowled in now .............well he wud have been . Yuvi bowling wont work now neither wud sehwag unnless it turns square

Jadeja is far better bowler then yuvi , yuvi had the cushion of rules 

 

Its even foolish to compare those guys to now coz rules have changed so massively. Only sachin wud have survived as part timer in these rules and likes of raina n yusuf coz they cud bowl fast n wkt to wkt 

 

As far as t20 goes jadeja to begin with isnt even a good t20 bowler 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

pandya became a regular bowler until problem happened with fitness which is also the case with stokes n marsh now . Stokes bowls less in LOI due to his elbow issue and marsh is one the most injury prone guy in history. Even watson had to cut down his pace due to regular back injuries

Had jadeja bowled in old rules he wud have been such a better ODI bowler, had yuvi bowled in now .............well he wud have been . Yuvi bowling wont work now neither wud sehwag unnless it turns square

Jadeja is far better bowler then yuvi , yuvi had the cushion of rules 

 

Its even foolish to compare those guys to now coz rules have changed so massively. Only sachin wud have survived as part timer in these rules and likes of raina n yusuf coz they cud bowl fast n wkt to wkt 

 

As far as t20 goes jadeja to begin with isnt even a good t20 bowler 

 

A peak Yuvraj who used speed variation would have been handy. I don't think we have anyone like him now to compare to.  He was not the same player after cancer diagnosis. Not just with ball. Even with bat his performance deteriorated over a period. After 2012 even under Dhoni, Yuvi has bowled close to 50 overs in T20. His ER in T20 was 6.53 during this phase. Raina's ER during the same period was 6.32 in 32 overs.  Yuvraj had better strike rate, better average, better Economy rate than Jaddu during the same phase. I don't agree entirely becaues Jaddu has been playing cricket since 2008. He is not a noob.  He was thrashed all over by Watson in world T20 before rule change.  Even when Ashwin was a noob, he was the one who opened the bowling for India with just 2 fielders outside.  Rule change impacted all bowlers. Not just part timers.  It is an exaggeration to say part timers became extinct after that. If that is the case it would have impacted all the countries. Others still continue using part timers or they have all rounders.  We just have the quality of the part timers we had.  That is the real reason. It is irrelevant what reason they are successful. They are successfully utilized. Even Jadhav who never had that kind of action to begin with learnt it in a short period and managed to handle 6th bowling option. . We carry one-dimensional cricketers. A reason why guys like Jaddu still survives in this format filling the "all rounder" role. Let us not attribute this paucity to Rule change. That is not true. 

 

Besides only in one dayers we have 4 fielders during non-powerplay game. Not T20. In T20 we can have 5 fielders outside the circle for the last 14 overs as long as you complete each over within allotted time.

 

Back to back matches of Yuvi in 2012. Has better returns than Ashwin with wet ball at Wankede. This was after his first chemo.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2012-13-565792/india-vs-england-1st-t20i-565810/full-scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2012-13-565792/india-vs-england-2nd-t20i-565811/full-scorecard

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

A peak Yuvraj who used speed variation would have been handy. I don't think we have anyone like him now to compare to.  

 

Yea and he still needed 5th fielder outside 

 

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He was not the same player after cancer diagnosis. Not just with ball. Even with bat his performance deteriorated over a period. After 2012 even under Dhoni,

 

yet dhoni used him to great extent in 2016 t20 Aussie series against maxwell and then against akmal in following series

U know why coz of 5th fielder thats avl in t20

 

He wasnt same was more due his technical deficencies with batting that creeped up when he changed his stance n back lift 

 

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Yuvi has bowled close to 50 overs in T20. His ER in T20 was 6.53 during this phase. Raina's ER during the same period was 6.32 in 32 overs. 

 

t20 has 5 fielder outside circle 

 

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Yuvraj had better strike rate, better average, better Economy rate than Jaddu during the same phase.

 

Jaddu has bowled under different rules in ODi and in t20 jaddu was never a good bowler 

 

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I don't agree entirely becaues Jaddu has been playing cricket since 2008. He is not a noob.  He was thrashed all over by Watson in world T20 before rule change. 

Jaddu mostly played after 2011 , before that he was also extremely inexperienced and agian i repeat jaddu has never been a good t20 bowler to begin with 

Yuvi was smashed by dimitri

 

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Even when Ashwin was a noob, he was the one who opened the bowling for India with just 2 fielders outside.  Rule change impacted all bowlers. Not just part timers.  It is an exaggeration to say part timers became extinct after that.

 

They didnt extinct the skill set u need now fr being a part timer is diff 

 

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

If that is the case it would have impacted all the countries. Others still continue using part timers or they have all rounders.  We just have the quality of the part timers we had.  That is the real reason. It is irrelevant what reason they are successful. They are successfully utilized. Even Jadhav who never had that kind of action to begin with learnt it in a short period and managed to handle 6th bowling option. . We carry one-dimensional cricketers. A reason why guys like Jaddu still survives in this format filling the "all rounder" role. Let us not attribute this paucity to Rule change. That is not true. 

 

Yes we need multidimesnion cricketer but i hve seen patience ppl have with such players so i find it funny when they say they need them 

 

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Besides only in one dayers we have 4 fielders during non-powerplay game. Not T20. In T20 we can have 5 fielders outside the circle for the last 14 overs as long as you complete each over within allotted time.

 

Yea so yuvi was bowled in t20 not ODI , ODI wasnt safe for him anymore as bowler 

 

30 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Back to back matches of Yuvi in 2012. Has better returns than Ashwin with wet ball at Wankede. This was after his first chemo.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2012-13-565792/india-vs-england-1st-t20i-565810/full-scorecard

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2012-13-565792/india-vs-england-2nd-t20i-565811/full-scorecard

 

havet u read aboive that i mentioned that t20 had 5 fielder which worked for yuvi, rule change has happened in ODI not t20s

[vvvslaxman]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Yea and he still needed 5th fielder outside 

 

 

yet dhoni used him to great extent in 2016 t20 Aussie series against maxwell and then against akmal in following series

U know why coz of 5th fielder thats avl in t20

 

He wasnt same was more due his technical deficencies with batting that creeped up when he changed his stance n back lift 

 

 

t20 has 5 fielder outside circle 

 

 

Jaddu has bowled under different rules in ODi and in t20 jaddu was never a good bowler 

 

Jaddu mostly played after 2011 , before that he was also extremely inexperienced and agian i repeat jaddu has never been a good t20 bowler to begin with 

Yuvi was smashed by dimitri

 

 

They didnt extinct the skill set u need now fr being a part timer is diff 

 

 

Yes we need multidimesnion cricketer but i hve seen patience ppl have with such players so i find it funny when they say they need them 

 

 

Yea so yuvi was bowled in t20 not ODI , ODI wasnt safe for him anymore as bowler 

 

havet u read aboive that i mentioned that t20 had 5 fielder which worked for yuvi, rule change has happened in ODI not t20s

 

You cannot make a sweeping statement all the part timers will get targeted every match. In the just concluded match between Australia and Srialanka , Australia used 7 bowlers. Labu bowled 7 overs.  He doesn't have any mythical skills. He is just a run of the mill part timer who doll out half trackers in between. He completed the quota of Marsh/Green. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-in-sri-lanka-2022-1307289/sri-lanka-vs-australia-5th-odi-1307300/full-scorecard

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

You cannot make a sweeping statement all the part timers will get targeted every match. In the just concluded match between Australia and Srialanka , Australia used 7 bowlers. Labu bowled 7 overs.  He doesn't have any mythical skills. He is just a run of the mill part timer who doll out half trackers in between. He completed the quota of Marsh/Green. 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-in-sri-lanka-2022-1307289/sri-lanka-vs-australia-5th-odi-1307300/full-scorecard

 

 

 

no im not sayinga ll part timers will be targetted, im clearly saying u need certain skills today . I know Part timers like root, livingstone , maxwell exist and i appreciate their skills

Labu bowls a lot in BBL, domestic n other leagues he plays so control is their and he is a leggie with good speeds. Plus these pitches in current SL-aus series have tired down now 

Im not saying part timers cant stay relevant now but im saying its not as eays as back then and now being part timer need diff kind of skills . If main bowlers have adapted to modern day LOI so does part timers have too which these guys have done which someone like Riyan parag is trying now. 

[sage]

Do we have any proper  batsman that can produce us these moments anymore?

 

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, sage said:

Do we have any proper  batsman that can produce us these moments anymore?

 

tendulkar was extremely gifted, albeit erratic. not easy to find these type of part-timers in any era, let alone this one. more common type of part timer is someone with middling talent and who bowls accurately (like grant flower)

[sage]

Lack of part-timer (off-spinner) again demonstrated a weakness in this modern India team

[vvvslaxman]

11 minutes ago, sage said:

Lack of part-timer (off-spinner) again demonstrated a weakness in this modern India team

 

In T20 there are times where smart part timer > brainless full time bowler.  

[putrevus]

Root is not doing badly even in 100.But we don't have anyone who is like Root.Sachin would have been great.

Edited August 13, 2023 by putrevus

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Root is not doing badly even in 100.But we don't have anyone who is like Root.Sachin would have been great.

sehwag and yuvi would be fine too. likes of markram, kane willy, even root are on the same level as these 2

[Lord]

Tilak bowled well yesterday. There is hope. Even Jaiswal can be groomed. Though part timer leggies are a huge risk.

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, Lord said:

Tilak bowled well yesterday. There is hope. Even Jaiswal can be groomed. Though part timer leggies are a huge risk.

livingstone started off as part-timer for first few domestic seasons, before evolving into batting AR.

 

I agree that we should focus on tilak first

[sage]

part tmiers like maxwell, livingstone doing great 

yet we dont have any batsmen that can roll their arm in a country with a rich spinning tradition. embarrassing 

[vvvslaxman]

17 minutes ago, sage said:

part tmiers like maxwell, livingstone doing great 

yet we dont have any batsmen that can roll their arm in a country with a rich spinning tradition. embarrassing 

 

Root is doing well as well. Especially in India part time spinners extremely useful more than part time seamers.

[Lord]

Its just laziness. Atleast guys like Gill,Iyer can roll their arm over.