Post 2019 Wc- Bowlers leaking runs at high economy after 30th over in ODI cricket

[Ankit_sharma03]

• Shami - 7.7
• Udana- 7.83
• Adair- 8.32
• Saini- 8.48
• Thakur - 8.55
• Jongwe - 8.98

Edited August 10, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

@Chakdephatte- he is one of the twitter handles you can follow, he has a very keen eye on numbers that many overlook 

[vvvslaxman]

He was always tad expensive. But he was a strike force. IN this series he was the most expensive bowler going at 7.15 an over. But he was also one of the most impressive bowler.

 

[Sooda]

Stokes taking him to the cleaners in the world cup lives in the memory. Took a expensive 5-fer that day too. And even now he still does not have the variety at the death, but remains a very good new ball bowler in ODIs. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Sooda

[Lord]

Shami is trash in T20 but very good in ODIs

 

The primary job in ODIs is still to take wickets than stop runs. And he used to provide key breakthroughs

[Lord]

5 hours ago, Sooda said:

Stokes taking him to the cleaners in the world cup lives in the memory. Took a expensive 5-fer that day too. And even now he still does not have the variety at the death, but remains a very good new ball bowler in ODIs. 

 

His 5 wickets ensured Eng don't score 400 from the start they got though,specially in middle overs

[Chakdephatte]

49 minutes ago, Lord said:

Shami is trash in T20 but very good in ODIs

 

The primary job in ODIs is...

 

It depends. Chahal obviously has a different role than Pandya, who plays a different role than Bumrah. Can't generalize everyone. That's part of 'variety' one looks in a team.

[vvvslaxman]

Tests

 

Strike is more important ER takes the back seat

 

ODI

Strike rate is still slightly ahead of ER

 

T20

 

ER  slightly ahead of Strike rate.

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, Lord said:

Shami is trash in T20 but very good in ODIs

 

The primary job in ODIs is still to take wickets than stop runs. And he used to provide key breakthroughs

he is very good in ODI but the point here was he weakness in white ball which is later part of innings that has affected his t20 bowling big time .

also in ODI yes taking wkts become more important but u still have to keep a lid on runs. Why i hve backed shami over umesh in ODI is coz shami doesnt leak like umesh

 

Shami bowling also need guys like Bumrah around who doesnt give runs easily and ill say bhuvi shud be added from next year once he keeps his fitness for an year . Need to create a balance of attack n defense in ODI . 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Lord]

33 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

he is very good in ODI but the point here was he weakness in white ball which is later part of innings that has affected his t20 bowling big time .

also in ODI yes taking wkts become more important but u still have to keep a lid on runs. Why i hve backed shami over umesh in ODI is coz shami doesnt leak like umesh

 

Shami bowling also need guys like Bumrah around who doesnt give runs easily and ill say bhuvi shud be added from next year once he keeps his fitness for an year . Need to create a balance of attack n defense in ODI . 

 

Shami is bad in death otherwise very good even on pattas

 

OTOH Bhuvi is economical early on but doesnt pick wickets (in ODIs) so batsmen get set and tonk others. In T20s wickets will automatically come as batsmen cant wait long.

 

Bumrah is best obviously. 

[Lord]

54 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

It depends. Chahal obviously has a different role than Pandya, who plays a different role than Bumrah. Can't generalize everyone. That's part of 'variety' one looks in a team.

 

Pandya is an allrounder.

 

Main bowlers should all be wicket takers with different strengths/roles.

 

Chahal plays ahead of Ashwin primarily due to wicket taking ability.

[Chakdephatte]

17 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

• Shami - 7.7
• Udana- 7.83
• Adair- 8.32
• Saini- 8.48
• Thakur - 8.55
• Jongwe - 8.98

 

Read your OP twice. It doesn't tell us anything.

 

Adair, Jongwe, no one cares. Saini played just one series. Udana retired. We want to know Bumrah, Boult, Starc, etc, not Zimbabweans or Irish. And atleast have a minimum matches criteria.

 

Do add these-

• How much is average run rate in this phase.

• Number of matches these five have played.

• Strike rates of these five.

• Some 'important' bowlers in this phase.

 

These numbers will become informative then.

 

 

[Chakdephatte]

9 minutes ago, Lord said:

Pandya is an allrouner.

 

And the earth is round. How does it counter my point?

 

11 minutes ago, Lord said:

Chahal plays ahead of Ashwin primarily due to wicket taking ability.

 

Wrist spinners. Captain cools somehow never realized their importance. Ashwin cannot replace them.

 

16 minutes ago, Lord said:

Main bowlers should all be wicket takers with different strengths/roles.

 

Chahal plays ahead of Ashwin primarily due to wicket taking ability.

 

No. That's the extra dimension Chahal gives us. None of Adil Rashid, Sodhi, Shamshi, Shadab, are wicket takers. Their role is to control the flow of runs.

 

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

And the earth is round. How does it counter my point?

 

 

Wrist spinners. Captain cools somehow never realized their importance. Ashwin cannot replace them.

 

 

No. That's the extra dimension Chahal gives us. None of Adil Rashid, Sodhi, Shamshi, Shadab, are wicket takers. Their role is to control the flow of runs.

 

 

Adil and Shamsi are wicket takers. Their numbers arent as good as Chahal because they play less in spin friendly conditions.Sodhi rarely plays in SENA and in Asia hes expected to take wickets.Adil's ER is 5.64. He won't survive with that if his job was to control runs.

 

My point is Ashwin is more economical yet replaced by Chahal even overseas.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Read your OP twice. It doesn't tell us anything.

 

Adair, Jongwe, no one cares. Saini played just one series. Udana retired. We want to know Bumrah, Boult, Starc, etc, not Zimbabweans or Irish. And atleast have a minimum matches criteria.

 

Do add these-

• How much is average run rate in this phase.

• Number of matches these five have played.

• Strike rates of these five.

• Some 'important' bowlers in this phase.

 

These numbers will become informative then.

 

 

it tells u the top 5 when it comes to worse economy and thats where shami is coming along side jongwa and adair

Reason boult, starc name isnt their coz their eco isnt that bad 

 

Post 2019 Wc

Saini has played 8 games not one series

shami 15 games

Thakur 17 

 

thats quite a decent sample rate , the point of who has played how much doesnt come coz ur aren't comparing them but ur assessing them individually 

ur not comparing who has taken how much wkts , rather ur seeing how much does one leak in that phase and if u arent finding any big or other names clearly then they are not doing that well coz if it was normal u wud have seen starc n others name too 

 

[vvvslaxman]

55 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Read your OP twice. It doesn't tell us anything.

 

Adair, Jongwe, no one cares. Saini played just one series. Udana retired. We want to know Bumrah, Boult, Starc, etc, not Zimbabweans or Irish. And atleast have a minimum matches criteria.

 

Do add these-

• How much is average run rate in this phase.

• Number of matches these five have played.

• Strike rates of these five.

• Some 'important' bowlers in this phase.

 

These numbers will become informative then.

 

 

 

Average number of overs he bowls in that phase also matters. Let us say he bowls 4 overs goes for 32. Bhuvi goes for 28 in 4. The difference is negligible.  Unless all the other bowlers go at a rate of below 6 this is okay as long as he can pick up a few wickets.  This stat has some value. But we don't really have to check each phase. Overall economy rate is a decent index to judge how they are going. Shami has been one of the expensive bowler. It is an open secret since there are two t pes of shamis. One who bowls unplayable spells other one gets cartered around.  Shami's ER post world cup is 6.16. That is a sufficient metrics to judge his performance.

[Ankit_sharma03]

On 8/10/2022 at 6:38 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

• Shami - 7.7
• Udana- 7.83
• Adair- 8.32
• Saini- 8.48
• Thakur - 8.55
• Jongwe - 8.98

 

@vishalvirsingh- u can see saini number, post 2019 he is among the worst when it comes to eco in ODI post 30 overs . When ball gets old and acc thats when pace wud come in handy, why do u think then he has failed that badly, He has pace, bowls good hard length too............so why ?? Currently he is getting smashed in County 50 over contest too..................so why isnt speed helping him ?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Need4Speed]

2 new balls reducing reverse swing may have reduced Shami’s penetration in later end too

[Ankit_sharma03]

17 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

2 new balls reducing reverse swing may have reduced Shami’s penetration in later end too

just not shami its for everyone, imagine how many wkts starc wud have added at his peak if that option was avl to him even bumrah 

its just not reverse it wud have helped spinners also and part timers even bowlers like pheklu 

[Need4Speed]

9 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

just not shami its for everyone, imagine how many wkts starc wud have added at his peak if that option was avl to him even bumrah 

its just not reverse it wud have helped spinners also and part timers even bowlers like pheklu 

True..but for someone like Shami..it was a major weapon..left him vulnerable in the death overs..like a bee lost his sting..others still are good and developed some other skills..but Shami couldnt..and lost his guaranteed place in team..

on an unrealedt note..Odean Smith seems to have improved his bowling off late..he always had the pace..just seems to have got better understanding\control on his bowling..

Do you think if Umran Malik can do the same...if he is given 15-20 matches and given good fields\coaching\confidence..would be a great asset in future..