zen Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 (edited) Let's look at some pros and cons of the captaincy of Tuk Tuk Sharma: Pros Experienced captain Backed the IPL experienced SKY in MI and therefore Ind Cons Usually conservative esp. when it comes to batting positions of the top 3 (the playing more positive drama is mainly for the top 3 as others mostly play per the situation) Can look clueless on field despite his experience Backs experience (players like Bishnoi dropped despite some good performances) Tends to field trundlers Goes missing in key overseas series Grinded Bumrah in MI despite MI having no chance to be in IPL playoff Tendency to gamble with DRS Recent form in multi team events IPL 2022 Wooden Spoon (his team was 0-8 at one point and criticized on various parameters) Asia Cup 2022 Wooden Spoon (relative to other two key teams - Pak & SL) Rate Rohit's captaincy in terms of strategy (backing players, long term vision, team playing style, etc.), tactics (on field decisions, playing 11, etc.), and so on. As for me, I am putting him at average (one of the options in the poll) as I do not think there are major upside to his captaincy at the moment, however, because of his experience, he is not bad either. The team may need to rely more on individual brilliance versus team effort and strategy/tactics. At best, I would expect that he picks those individuals in the 11. Edited October 1, 2022 by zen Link to comment
cricketfan28 Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Giving him the benefit of doubt here. He might surprise us. Link to comment
sarcastic Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 7 hours ago, Gollum said: I think his captaincy is getting overriden by Rahul Dravid's coach inputs. Especially, the sudden rise of trundler culture can be attributed to the latter than the former. Lord 1 Link to comment
Lord Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, sarcastic said: I think his captaincy is getting overriden by Rahul Dravid's coach inputs. Especially, the sudden rise of trundler culture can be attributed to the latter than the former. and why is that? express bowling and zen 2 Link to comment
sarcastic Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Lord said: and why is that? Why what? The rise of trundlers in Indian team is very obvious. There is a sudden rise only after Dravid had got into coaching role is given. Rohit Sharma was captaining occassionally since 2017 and we did not see trundlers galore then. Even for that matter, Mumbai Indians. I know correlation is not equal causation but it is quite obvious to me in this case. Or put it in other words, I do not see any reason why we are suddenly seeing so many trundlers into the Indian team since beginning of 2022. Lord 1 Link to comment
Lord Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, sarcastic said: Why what? The rise of trundlers in Indian team is very obvious. There is a sudden rise only after Dravid had got into coaching role is given. Rohit Sharma was captaining occassionally since 2017 and we did not see trundlers galore then. Even for that matter, Mumbai Indians. I know correlation is not equal causation but it is quite obvious to me in this case. Or put it in other words, I do not see any reason why we are suddenly seeing so many trundlers into the Indian team since beginning of 2022. Unadkat has been picked up this year by Mumbai Indians. Dhawal Kulkarni,Thampi and many trundlers played under Rohit. Rohit is also captain since 2022 only.Occasional captains don't get the team of their choice. express bowling 1 Link to comment
sarcastic Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lord said: and why is that? Now, with my emotional hat on: Please like my posts than quote them. I really feel good when I see "Lord reacted to your post" and I see an upvote or a love rather than "Lord quoted your post". I hope you understand my emotion. Edited October 2, 2022 by sarcastic Lord 1 Link to comment
sarcastic Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Just now, Lord said: Unadkat has been picked up this year by Mumbai Indians. Dhawal Kulkarni,Thampi and many trundlers played under Rohit. Rohit is also captain since 2022 only.Occasional captains don't get the team of their choice. I m not sure of those guys played as main bowlers. MI always had two outright pace bowlers (if not three) in the playing XI. Those guys only played as third or fourth seamers in the team. Team India is now playing trundlers as main bowlers which is last seen many years ago. Link to comment
Lord Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Just now, sarcastic said: I m not sure of those guys played as main bowlers. MI always had two outright pace bowlers (if not three) in the playing XI. Those guys only played as third or fourth seamers in the team. Team India is now playing trundlers as main bowlers which is last seen many years ago. Which 2-3 pacers were main bowlers this year? Guy didn't even play Meredith until it was too late and kept playing Sams Many years ago? Bhuvi has been playing for years. Before Harshal, there was Nattu.Thakur used to play regularly too. And playing XI is definitely captain's decision. express bowling 1 Link to comment
sarcastic Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Lord said: Unadkat has been picked up this year by Mumbai Indians. Dhawal Kulkarni,Thampi and many trundlers played under Rohit. Rohit is also captain since 2022 only.Occasional captains don't get the team of their choice. I would say that my hunch is that Rohit is not necessarily importing these trundlers as that will not fetch him any benefit. The reason India had trundlers until 2010 is because we did not have proper fast bowlers like Kapil or Sreenath (and some extent Zaheer). I do not see any reason why captain will not want the fast bowlers. The reason given for MSD is that he needed to keep the wickets and he preferred keeping to trundlers rather than real fast bowlers. Where as I can see Dravid experimenting with them because he was always an experimentative person. He suddenly promoted Irfan Pathan to number 3 for some games and even SRT was demoted to number 4 during WC 2007 etc. etc.. He performed many experiments even during his captaincy days and also during the initial IPL years as captain. I am not saying experiments are bad but some of his experiments proved disastorous. Rahul Dravid nearly recruited a test like team back in 2008 for RCB when every other team is hiring the best possible hitters in the team. The answer given was "Lateral Thinking", he wanted to prove that a test like batsman can play very well in T20 team too. We know that the initial years of RCB was a big disaster but then that is a perspective. May be he could have been right and his team of players could have been more successful in another alternative history. Edited October 2, 2022 by sarcastic Link to comment
sarcastic Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) @Lord I will say one more example of recent promotion of Ravi Jadeja which proved really good for our team. I will give full credit to Rahul Dravid than anyone else. Because, it is obvious for me why Rahul Dravid wants to do such a thing. Because he likes such experiments. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, Jadeja if played in T20Is should play in such middle order positions rather than number 7 or something like that where he is not suitable. Edited October 2, 2022 by sarcastic Lord 1 Link to comment
Lord Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 1 minute ago, sarcastic said: I would say that my hunch is that Rohit is not necessarily importing these trundlers as that will not fetch him any benefit. The reason India had trundlers until 2010 is because we did not have proper fast bowlers like Kapil or Sreenath (and some extent Zaheer). I do not see any reason why captain will not want the fast bowlers. Where as I can see Dravid experimenting with them because he was always an experimentative person. He suddenly promoted Irfan Pathan to number 3 for some games and even SRT was demoted to number 4 during WC 2007 etc. etc.. He performed many experiments even during his captaincy days and also during the initial IPL years as captain. I am not saying experiments are bad but some of his experiments proved disastorous. Rahul Dravid nearly recruited a test like team back in 2008 for RCB when every other team is hiring the best possible hitters in the team. The answer given was "Lateral Thinking", he wanted to prove that a test like batsman can play very well in T20 team too. We know that the initial years of RCB was a big disaster but then that is a perspective. May be he could have been right and his team of players could have been more successful in another alternative history. yes it is a hunch or 'bias' as there is no solid evidence to suggest Rohit backs fast bowlers over medium pacers. btw, Kapil and an older Zaheer would have been called 'trundlers' by ICF today Dravid did experiments during his 'captaincy days' but here its the coach running the show. You see the contradiction? Ultimately it's the captain's team. If Rohit wants certain players, Dravid or selectors can't stop him. Link to comment
zen Posted October 2, 2022 Author Share Posted October 2, 2022 17 minutes ago, Lord said: And playing XI is definitely captain's decision. If it is not, it is even a bigger negative for a regular captain (as then the question becomes why is he the captain) For some it may be fashionable to blame Dravid but it only undermines the captain further (As the say, better to have a clever enemy than a dumb friend) Lord 1 Link to comment
Bigg Brother Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 Nothing to rate about as of now..The guy has been resting/injured for most of the time since he became full time captain... Frustrated 1 Link to comment
sarcastic Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Lord said: yes it is a hunch or 'bias' as there is no solid evidence to suggest Rohit backs fast bowlers over medium pacers. btw, Kapil and an older Zaheer would have been called 'trundlers' by ICF today Dravid did experiments during his 'captaincy days' but here its the coach running the show. You see the contradiction? Ultimately it's the captain's team. If Rohit wants certain players, Dravid or selectors can't stop him. The reason here is Dravid is a greater than life character in Indian cricket given his large accomplishments. When he was a captain, even he was bending to what Greg was saying but not in many things. Greg was powerful but not as much as Dravid today is for the Indian team. Rohit Sharma has a stature but definitely lesser than that of Dravid. So, either Rohit goes along with Dravid or there is a friction which will end up as Kumble-Kohli fiasco. In the latter, Kohli the captain and the coach are not on the same page and eventually it led to captain using his tremendous statue with BCCI (given his unfathomable reputation) to oust a very big character such as Kumble. The coaches should will not interfere if either they are like Shastri (who despite his cricketing reputation, has a habit of staying behind in the shadow), they are going to meddle into day-to-day affairs of the team composition etc. The captain can either abide by it or if he refuses there is friction between them. My hunch is simple: Anything that looks out of the box experimentation is done with at least the consultation or approval if not the push of coach Rahul Dravid. I cannot see Rohit doing anything that Dravid does not approve of. And I don't see Rohit Sharma to be as experimenting in the years I followed him in IPL. Most of the time, I can see where the decision is coming from. Sometime I don't agree with him but I don't see experimental changes. That is suddenly there is a change in the composition of the team or some bowlers get promoted to top or some batsmen come too lower down or anything like that. Link to comment
Lord Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 On 10/3/2022 at 4:02 AM, sarcastic said: The reason here is Dravid is a greater than life character in Indian cricket given his large accomplishments. When he was a captain, even he was bending to what Greg was saying but not in many things. Greg was powerful but not as much as Dravid today is for the Indian team. Rohit Sharma has a stature but definitely lesser than that of Dravid. So, either Rohit goes along with Dravid or there is a friction which will end up as Kumble-Kohli fiasco. In the latter, Kohli the captain and the coach are not on the same page and eventually it led to captain using his tremendous statue with BCCI (given his unfathomable reputation) to oust a very big character such as Kumble. The coaches should will not interfere if either they are like Shastri (who despite his cricketing reputation, has a habit of staying behind in the shadow), they are going to meddle into day-to-day affairs of the team composition etc. The captain can either abide by it or if he refuses there is friction between them. My hunch is simple: Anything that looks out of the box experimentation is done with at least the consultation or approval if not the push of coach Rahul Dravid. I cannot see Rohit doing anything that Dravid does not approve of. And I don't see Rohit Sharma to be as experimenting in the years I followed him in IPL. Most of the time, I can see where the decision is coming from. Sometime I don't agree with him but I don't see experimental changes. That is suddenly there is a change in the composition of the team or some bowlers get promoted to top or some batsmen come too lower down or anything like that. 1. Rohit is far more influential than Dravid in terms of selections etc.He has far bigger reputation and power than an ex cricketer. 2. Dravid is not someone who encroaches upon other's authority. Not a yes man but not a rebel too.Kumble was strongminded but Dravid is known to just do his job silently 3. If at all there's friction, the coach will have to go,not captain. 4. IPL is completely different dynamic than international cricket. You don't need to experiment if you have Malinga, Pollard etc in your team. Link to comment
cricketfan28 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Greatness awaits him he will be the first kaptaan to win wt20 with below par team. Link to comment
Lord Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 makes basic errors and very poor body language. Link to comment
Frustrated Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) Nothing positive except that his belly has started resembling that of arjuna ranatunga. Who knows he could eventually win us a WC (t20 or odi) like how ranatunga won it for his side, when they were considered underdogs. Edited October 4, 2022 by Frustrated Link to comment
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