How Ashwin prepared for WTC final - an interview with Prasanna Agoram

[Lord]

24 minutes ago, Vijy said:

you play 2 spinners overseas, I don't think they will run through sides in SA, Eng, NZ, and Oz. need to find other pacers.

 

On dry wickets and hot conditions like this they can be more useful. Ofcourse pacers for greentops and cloudy conditions

 

Can use this until we find all condition pacers

[maniac]

I don’t get the hate for Ashwin’on ICF . Gun player and one of those cricketer’s cricketers who everyone respects. Maybe he won’t run sides like Murali or Warne but excellent cricketer. Unless he is unfit or totally out of form, I would have him in my test x1 every game.

[Vijy]

9 minutes ago, maniac said:

I don’t get the hate for Ashwin’on ICF . Gun player and one of those cricketer’s cricketers who everyone respects. Maybe he won’t run sides like Murali or Warne but excellent cricketer. Unless he is unfit or totally out of form, I would have him in my test x1 every game.

even on a green top in NZ? what will he do? this was my question to Lord too. We need to select better pacers, not just choose 2 spinners everywhere

[vvvslaxman]

42 minutes ago, maniac said:

I don’t get the hate for Ashwin’on ICF . Gun player and one of those cricketer’s cricketers who everyone respects. Maybe he won’t run sides like Murali or Warne but excellent cricketer. Unless he is unfit or totally out of form, I would have him in my test x1 every game.

 

He has been one of the biggest crisis man with bat since his debut. Remember India was in trouble against West indies. He made a 100. But for his 100 INdia very well would have lost that Test.

[Adamant]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:17 PM, Chakdephatte said:

“The turnaround from white-ball to red-ball takes time, starting from sleep cycle to bowling. Everything is a habit if you follow it for a few days. So Ashwin started off by undoing the old habits where if Rajasthan didn’t have a game, he would be off to bed early,”

 

“He has been asking the degree of turn at the Oval this season and in the past few years on each day, because he will get a fair indication of what to expect from the batsmen. If Australia bat first and there is not much turn, they will definitely use their feet. Someone like Smith will not hesitate to come down the track and flick over mid-wicket or through covers. So when you know the degree of turn is minimum, you will avoid bowling certain deliveries and set fields accordingly,” Prasanna reveals.

 

Legend.

Can we become legend in our field just by thinking big and not actually delivering anything despite multiple attempts? 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Adamant

[maniac]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

even on a green top in NZ? what will he do? this was my question to Lord too. We need to select better pacers, not just choose 2 spinners everywhere

If I told you we should play 2 players in the side, one a batting allrounder with almost 300 test wickets and a bowling allrounder with 5 test 100s and nearly 500 wickets you would say it makes absolute sense to play both everywhere.

 

Jadeja can easily replace the current top 5 in tests.

 

We have lost games due to batting and fielding and sometimes due to poor bowling by spearheads. Jadeja and Ashwin have been adequate in most overseas games. Everyone has an off game but I feel especially Ashwin gets scrutinized more.

 

I was indifferent to him for many years but last few years he is hands down one of my fav cricketers from all over the world along with Jimmy anderson.

Edited June 10, 2023 by maniac

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, maniac said:

If I told you we should play 2 players in the side, one a batting allrounder with almost 300 test wickets and a bowling allrounder with 5 test 100s and nearly 500 wickets you would say it makes absolute sense to play both everywhere.

 

Jadeja can easily replace the current top 5 in tests.

 

We have lost games due to batting and fielding and sometimes due to poor bowling by spearheads. Jadeja and Ashwin have been adequate in most overseas games. Everyone has an off game but I feel especially Ashwin gets scrutinized more.

 

I was indifferent to him for many years but last few years he is hands down one of my fav cricketers from all over the world along with Jimmy anderson.

then he should stop bowling. it is not easy transitioning from being, say, no. 6 or no. 7 to top 5 batter. it's very rare for a top 5 batter to be a frontline bowler. this is what all the posters seem to ignore. oh, let's select x and y because they are better than our current top 5, even though x and y played throughout their careers as bowling ARs.

 

Also, to answer your first 2 lines, I wouldn't say what you claim I would (that "it makes absolute sense to play both everywhere"). I would say, look at the conditions and play them accordingly. that's like saying, here's a bowler who has an avg < 15 (boland), so let's play him everywhere and anywhere. bowlers and ARs must be chosen based on the conditions. even batters need to be dropped/selected in some conditions. go and read about david steele (in my time) who was chosen explicitly as a pace expert and did very well

Edited June 10, 2023 by Vijy

[Vijy]

The level of defense for Ashwin is quite high on ICF, as though he were Murali.

 

It's possible to say that he could/should be selected for Oval (a stance I would be ok with), and from this stage, posters are extrapolating to: let's play him everywhere, let's play him higher up the order, he is misunderstood, etc

 

Ashwin is not a magic fix-all. he is not warne, not murali (both of whom did badly only in 1-2 countries). he is not even chandrasekhar overseas. those of us who saw chandra bowl can tell you what overseas (outside SC) match winning performances by spinners look like

Edited June 10, 2023 by Vijy

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, Adamant said:

Can we become legend in our field just by thinking big and not actually delivering anything despite multiple attempts? 

as per several posters on this thread, apparently yes... having a big brain (and d**k) compensates for translating the thoughts into action.

 

people have happily -- and I repeat, happily -- ignored just how poor he was in SA (in at least 2 series), both of which we could have won. And I don't recall him doing much of note with the bat either. that's an example of 1 country he should not play in

[vvvslaxman]

31 minutes ago, Vijy said:

as per several posters on this thread, apparently yes... having a big brain (and d**k) compensates for translating the thoughts into action.

 

people have happily -- and I repeat, happily -- ignored just how poor he was in SA (in at least 2 series), both of which we could have won. And I don't recall him doing much of note with the bat either. that's an example of 1 country he should not play in

 

106 wickets fell in SA 102wickets taken by seamers.  3 by Ashwin 1 Maharaja. How can we blame him?

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

106 wickets fell in SA 102wickets taken by seamers.  3 by Ashwin 1 Maharaja. How can we blame him?

because if he is almost on par with maharaj (2 wkts behind), that makes him an average bowler. look at how likes of  Lyon and Herath have done in SA (10-15 less avg than asswin). And going back, he was utterly toothless when SA nearly chased 450.

 

note that this series of posts deal with claims that he should be played everywhere (see post by Maniac above, for example).

 

if you think a spinner who takes 1 wkt per test is good in SA, well, all I can say is... there's not much point in debating further then.

 

feel free to hold on to your views. clearly, we are not going to find any common point of agreement here

Edited June 11, 2023 by Vijy

[vvvslaxman]

18 minutes ago, Vijy said:

because if he is almost on par with maharaj (2 wkts behind), that makes him an average bowler. look at how likes of  Lyon and Herath have done in SA (10-15 less avg than asswin). And going back, he was utterly toothless when SA nearly chased 450.

 

note that this series of posts deal with claims that he should be played everywhere (see post by Maniac above, for example).

 

if you think a spinner who takes 1 wkt per test is good in SA, well, all I can say is... there's not much point in debating further then.

 

feel free to hold on to your views. clearly, we are not going to find any common point of agreement here

 

I don't think he played all the SENA matches. Missed atleast 50%.  Almost all recent tours  tracks were either flat or seamer friendly. Spinners at max could do holding job.But Oval is different. Cricket ball itself is different from what you use in SA.  Oval always assists spinners. It is a common knowledge.  I can name a number of instances our seamers  laid eggs overseas even in helpful conditions. Bumrah in NZ, Siraj in SA, WTC final,  Shami's entire career in England.  Australia is one place most of these guys did well where even Ashwin has done well.  If we strictly go by conditions you will have to drop entire top order for England. Ashwin only played overseas intermittently. We re complaining about Faf and ABDV saving the test in their own ground. What did our great seamers do defending 377 against England. They got molested going 8 an over. Besides this match is against AUstralia in England not ENgland in England.  Given the recent scars he inflicted, Ashwin definitely had a strong case.  He also adds depth to batting. Bit control would have been there when Travis Head was going nuts against our bowlers. That one innings was the difference. Umesh was a leaking machine. WTC 2021 Ashwin could have made way for Siraj. Having said that it was Bumrah that sucked in the final. He was the weak link. It is not a hindsight decision. Australia didn't go with 4 main seamers. It so happened they had an all rounder in Green. Otherwise they were never going to go in with 4 seamers. Australia always goes with seamer all rounder. Before Green it  was Marsh. Only India goes in 4 speciaalist fast bowlers. 

 

For instance here Australia just used 3 seamers and a spinner

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-world-test-championship-2019-2021-1195334/england-vs-australia-4th-test-1152849/full-scorecard

[vvvslaxman]

India's 4 seamers theory works only when atleast 3 are good. If only one is good , 2 are average and 1 is mediocre it makes no sense.

[Chakdephatte]

11 hours ago, Adamant said:

Can we become legend in our field just by thinking big and not actually delivering anything despite multiple attempts? 

 

How is he not a legend?

Edited June 11, 2023 by Chakdephatte

[shortbread]

You drop your best test bowler for the finals..... it's mind boggling. His record against Australia in Australia should make him a walk into the final XI

[Lord]

On 6/10/2023 at 12:54 PM, Vijy said:

even on a green top in NZ? what will he do? this was my question to Lord too. We need to select better pacers, not just choose 2 spinners everywhere

 

Who are these better pacers?Current pacers can't even contain.

 

My suggestion was to play him UNTIL we found those better pacers. And play Ashwin in dry/hot conditions irrespective of country.

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Who are these better pacers?Current pacers can't even contain.

 

My suggestion was to play him UNTIL we found those better pacers. And play Ashwin in dry/hot conditions irrespective of country.

Test class fast.bowlers dying breed. For 4 over burst you get 7 or 8 crores. Why waste your energy in Tests. Regardless of success I appreciate all the seamers that play tests. But current unit is not even 30% as good as our pace unit 3 years back. That was a golden period. I am no fan of unadkut. But I appreciate his commitment to play red ball cricket.  Sandeep warrior is one guy who would have been an ideal replacement for Ishant. Sadly india didn't have any long term plans.