The Ashes 2023

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Dude. Apart from Bumrah's occasional blitz India rarely won with one individual. It was always a collective effrot. How many 10 wicket haul by Indian fast bowlers. Tell me? You take out one inform Ishant Indian fast bowling was completely exposed. Take out Bumrah. It is even more exposed. None of them are Ambrose to take 7 for 1 in one spell.  

None of them are Ambroses and Mcgraths that is why you need 3 plus 1 . Ashwin does not fit in that scenario.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, rkt.india said:

after Australia scored close to 500 runs.  Even flat Indian pitches are more spin friendly than English pitches and someone had to eventually pick wickets.  it was like Jason Kreza picking 8 fer against India because no other bowler looked threatening.  he conceded 200 plus runs but got 8-fer.   one 100 and four 50+ scores were made in that innings.

 

Wrong comparison. Wrong analysis. Ashwin bowled fantastically in the last test on that road. 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, putrevus said:

None of them are Ambroses and Mcgraths that is why you need 3 plus 1 . Ashwin does not fit in that scenario.

 

Not on all tracks. Not against all oppositions. Not any 3 plus 1.  In this particular case

 

Oval + Australia + Umesh/Thakur/Shami/Siraj  - All 3 are wrong

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Different team different pitche rolled out? What did Ali do in India other than clean bowling Kohli

Ali is more closer to Lyon who can bowl and exploit rough where as Ashwin has more guile and variations.

 

Ali is not some idiot.Stop making him into one.

[putrevus]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

Not on all tracks. Not against all oppositions. Not any 3 plus 1.  In this particular case

 

Oval + Australia + Umesh/Thakur/Shami/Siraj  - All 3 are wrong

No 2 plus thakur + Ashwin and Jadeja was never going to work in first place.

[vvvslaxman]

Australia included Todd Murphy anyway to fulfill the role of a spinner on the fastest pitch in ENgland for holding role just in case. Every type of bowler has a role.

[Lord]

Just now, putrevus said:

What was Ashwin doing in fifth day when SA nearly chased 445.

That was 10 years ago. He had just started his career and had horrible series even in India v Eng 2012. It won't happen now will it?

 

Anyway Eng pitches have more for spin than SA one, specially Oval. Can't equate them in name of SENA

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

No 2 plus thakur + Ashwin and Jadeja was never going to work in first place.

 

Probably on different pitch against different opposition may not. But logical choice in this case there is a solid case.

[putrevus]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

Australia included Todd Murphy anyway to fulfill the role of a spinner on the fastest pitch in ENgland for holding role just in case. Every type of bowler has a role.

Because they have 3 plus one in Marsh.

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

you need a balanced attack.if pacers do well ,spinners can come into play on 4-5th day

 

Fast bowlers don't win games in India on their own, still they play.

we at times play even one fast bowler. fast bowlers play because they get reverse in India. and fast bowlers and spinners cant be compared because even two spinners can bowl whole day. but you need 4 fast bowlers to bowl effectively whole day and they are more injury prone too.  that is why more number of fast bowlers than spinners play.  you always need an extra seamer in SENA that is why 4 seamers play.  Because if you play just three, they will still have to bowl most of the overs and not all three are going to have a good game simultaneously.  All having bad game together is more of a possibility than all having a good game together and that is why extra seamer is needed, even in case one get injured.  look at this game, England are playing five seamers.  One got injured and they still did well in the first innings because they had that extra seamer.  one spinner is enough just to slow the pace down.  now you can argue if that spinner should be Ashwin or Jadeja. two spinners in these conditions is overkill.        

Edited July 7, 2023 by rkt.india

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Lord said:

That was 10 years ago. He had just started his career and had horrible series even in India v Eng 2012. It won't happen now will it?

 

Anyway Eng pitches have more for spin than SA one, specially Oval. Can't equate them in name of SENA

 

Yup. Lyon couldn't separate Vihari and Ashwin for 43 overs at the SCG a wicket known for spin. They didn't drop him next match. Next match he couldn't dismiss rookie Sundar/Thakur and also later Pant. They lost. They didn't drop him. He played 100 tests in a row. Ash was dropped 6 tests in a row in England.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Because they have 3 plus one in Marsh.

 

like Green was? He hardly bowled. Marsh bowled 3 overs first innings.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

like Green was? He hardly bowled. Marsh bowled 3 overs first innings.

The total overs they bowled was 50 odd, how many overs you want from fifth bowler?

Edited July 7, 2023 by putrevus

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

we at times play even one fast bowler. fast bowlers play because they get reverse in India. and fast bowlers and cant be compared because even two spinners can bowl whole day. but you need 4 fast bowlers to bowl effectively whole day and they are more injury prone too.  that is why more number of fast bowlers than spinners play.  you always need an extra seamer in SENA that is why 4 seamers play.  Because if you play just three, they will still have to bowl most of the overs and not all three are going to have a good game simultaneously.  All having bad game together is more of a possibility than all having a good game together and that is why extra seamer is needed, even in case one get injured.  look at this game, England are playing five seamers.  One got injured and they still did well in the first innings because they had that extra seamer.  one spinner is enough just to slow the pace down.  now you can argue if that spinner should be Ashwin or Jadeja. two spinners in these conditions is overkill.        

 

Unless you have the right variety you can have 6 seamers you will still struggle. Bumrah was once in a generation fast bowler. He has failed few matches. But when he clicked he breathed fire.  Nobody is gonig to replace him. Same with rejuvenated Ishant. His height, inswingers, bounce he generated can only be achieved someone similar not midgets like Umesh yadav. Secondly you are putting all English wickets in one basket. Edgbaston/Oval known for assisting spinners. You should still back them on such tracks.  Also Jadeja is playing as an all rounder not a pure bowler. He is good enough to replace one of the bozo at the top order.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

The total overs they bowled was 50 odd, how many overs you want from fifth bowler?

 

Green hardly bowled in the last 2 tests.

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

we at times play even one fast bowler. fast bowlers play because they get reverse in India. and fast bowlers and spinners cant be compared because even two spinners can bowl whole day. but you need 4 fast bowlers to bowl effectively whole day and they are more injury prone too.  that is why more number of fast bowlers than spinners play.  you always need an extra seamer in SENA that is why 4 seamers play.  Because if you play just three, they will still have to bowl most of the overs and not all three are going to have a good game simultaneously.  All having bad game together is more of a possibility than all having a good game together and that is why extra seamer is needed, even in case one get injured.  look at this game, England are playing five seamers.  One got injured and they still did well in the first innings because they had that extra seamer.  one spinner is enough just to slow the pace down.  now you can argue if that spinner should be Ashwin or Jadeja. two spinners in these conditions is overkill.        

 

Fast bowler are not required in India. We can win easily with 4 spinners without needing reverse swing.

 

England bowl spin through Ali and Root. There specialist spinners arent any better so not needed.Even they used to play Leach not long ago.

 

If not spinner, you need a variety in pace attack atleast. Our all 4 seamers were similar skiddy pacers who leak runs if not taking wickets.

 

On a wicket like Oval which assists spin. Spinner can bowl long spell too to give rest to pacers.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Fast bowler are not required in India. We can win easily with 4 spinners without needing reverse swing.

 

England bowl spin through Ali and Root. There specialist spinners arent any better so not needed.Even they used to play Leach not long ago.

 

If not spinner, you need a variety in pace attack atleast. Our all 4 seamers were similar skiddy pacers who leak runs if not taking wickets.

 

On a wicket like Oval which assists spin. Spinner can bowl long spell too to give rest to pacers.

 

That too against a side that has 5 left handers and a bowler who has great record against left hander. In addition he can bat.  I would gladly replace Kohli with Ashwin. Have 4 seamers and 2 spinners. Kohli's 40s, 50s are useless anyway.

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Green hardly bowled in the last 2 tests.

No he bowled 20 plus overs last test.Only in first test he bowled less overs, he is just starting out , 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No he bowled 20 plus overs last test.Only in first test he bowled less overs, he is just starting out , 

 

Marsh is not a great test bowler. 32 matches 42 wickets 38.64 avge Even in first class just 1.5 wickets per match.

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Marsh is not a great test bowler. 32 matches 42 wickets 38.64 avge Even in first class just 1.5 wickets per match.

Who said Marsh is a great bowler. Aussies don't need him to be great bowler. He was like to like replacement for Green.