Elections 23-24 NDA vs I.N.D.I.A (updated) -Poll Added

[coffee_rules]

14 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

Because you have zero debate skills and always bring across "sure Adani is corrupt so was X,YZ"

Your debate skills are just name-calling. I will just highlight all the personal remarks. You can't argue without abusing. That's what a 2-year old does, when he doesn't get his way. You post opinions with no facts and expect us to take your word for it. If not, we are fools, bhakts, brain-washed. You think you were born yesterday and is the first one noticing corruption in political circles only since 2014. I am just reminding you how it was earlier. 

 

14 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

That's the most basic level argument even a 5 year old can do.

 

The simple fact here is Adani and his brother are scamming the Indian common people by taking bank loans from SBI and LIC (common people money) and then one of the brothers hides their wealth overseas by avoiding paying taxes.

 

See. this is conspiracy talk, basically you can say anything without any proof and expect us to believe your words. Cite sources, facts to back your theories to make a good argument. Even if they are cheating, they can be caught when the govt changes. Business greed is not a new invention from Adani. A lot of celebs declare themselves as agriculturists and invest in real-estate to literally not pay taxes. Have you heard of Panama papees, where celebs and politicians from world over were caught investing to avoid taxes.

 

If Adani is a BJP stooge, Here, I see even Congress governments in Raj, CHgarh investing in Adani companies. How do you explain that?

 

Ooima, Banks are just supposed to hoard money and give it back to people without any profits. Businesses take investment from various sources. That is called funding your investment. SBI and LIC do invest not only in Adani companies but 1000s of others LIC investment in Adani stock was a small percentage of its investment. During the shorting it didn't lose moeny, but recovered most of it. That's how investing in hedge funds are, some years you make a killing and some times cut losses.

 

This is in May, to show how much was LIC invested in Adani companies:
https://indianexpress.com/article/business/market-value-of-lic-investment-in-adani-stocks-hits-rs-44670-cr-8627004/#:~:text=LIC's biggest bet is Adani,closing price of Rs 2%2C476.90.

 

LIC's biggest bet is Adani Ports & SEZ Ltd where it holds 9.12 per cent shares. At Wednesday's closing price of Rs 717.95 on the BSE, that holding is worth Rs 14,145 crore. Its 4.25 per cent stake the group's flagship Adani Enterprises Ltd is worth Rs 12,017 crore at Wednesday's closing price of Rs 2,476.90

 

 

14 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

Then they call everyone who attack them as anti-national.

 

Tell me one good reason why monopoly behavior is good for normal people other than paying higher prices?

Not true in case of Adani or Reliance. They are a conglomerate in various businesses. Price rise is also because of market conditions, economy and govt policies, not solely on monopoly of businesses. Why are you paying for Iphone 14 with your kidney? It is because of brand value they have built.

 

14 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

The US petroleum prices dropped 40% since last year. In India they are at all time highs which means Ambani gets 40% straight profit on market manipulation.

 

ANd you think Chevron , Exxon , BP (Brit) are companies that are doing charity. Indian Petroleum market is still state owned mostly and Govt makes money due to high taxes, surcharges etc. We paid Gul war surcharge to petrol long after the war was over. Every year there is a new reason to raise petrol taxes. This is mainly due to IMF, it expects the countries to not borrow money and waste it on subsidies and charities.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/pakistans-new-fuel-pricing-scheme-needs-be-agreed-before-imf-deal-2023-03-24/

 

India doesn't have these issues because they tax petrol and hence we pay more every year.. 

 

14 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

The profits that kill cell carrier Industry.

Still, India pays the least for internet amongst all countries.

 

14 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Same with Adani...

 

The fools like you support that because destruction of country economically and wealth disparity is not the reason you support BJP.

 

You are a single issue voter who made a decision not based on common sense and common public good but because of regionalism bias or because of Hindutva agenda.

 

Thats exactly what my issue is. If you say this openly at least you will gain some respect from me.

 

See, you go hurling abuses just because somebody didn't like your opinions. I support BJP mainly because after seeing Congress and regional parties running the country as their family run businesses and bringing India disrepute. That's my opinion. BJP does it lesser and it is a lesser evil than others.  I feel secularism is the cause of India's downhill and communal politics is not. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by coffee_rules

[BlueBlood]

For petroleum by products created by waste like tar, plastics etc. The margins are well over that 40% profit margin number.

 

People are so stupid they don't understand that when you have an unfettered monopoly you can dictate prices throughout the supply chain.

 

Why do you think there's not been a single other Ambani or Adani level entrepreneur in India? One guy who came closest Byjus is worthless now.

 

Explaining this content to someone who doesn't understand it and worse refuses to understand it is pointless.

 

India just banned Rice exports due to rising costs. You really think the costs have nothing to do with transport (fuel costs that benefit Ambani), transport, shopping and logistics (Adani) etc. ?

 

This is what I mean, every incremental rupee common public pays for petrol, travel, cell phone/communication and the entire supply chain is controlled by two people who stand to benefit from it just due to political connections and sweet heart deals.

 

Everything is interlinked and this is why you need competition but we drove away Amazon, cell carriers like Orange etc., Walmart and everything else to benefit handful of people due to political connections. This means, we are no different than communist China. 

 

The impact is felt with everyone. But the tech and BPO space which is India's largest contribution to the world, there you have complete competition which is a food thing as it provides choice and lower prices, better wages, better efficiency and productivity etc.

 

By the time people learn this it will be too late. You cannot call yourself a democracy when you allow rampant monopolies with complete disregard for fair business practices.

[BlueBlood]

I request mods to delete all my posts and if needed ban my account since it's a public forum, I am worried my posts will bring unnecessary stress to this forum and myself due to censorship we have across the country.

 

It's scary what's happening to youtubers, Twitter posters etc. Who post anything against powerful corporates and politicians these days.

 

I hate political posts for exactly this reason but my intention was to just educate people on how economic policy is being ignored for social and identity politics that is harmful for common public in the long term.

[dial_100]

19 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

That is all okay but the political system in India fosters corruption at highest level. When there's a hung assembly or 3 parties, you can just buy politicians or threaten to raid them to join your party and form government.

 

The regional party system dominance in South India and Bengal is the only reason we have some semblance of a sane democracy or we could have had BJP, Adani and Ambani rule the country as a dictatorship with media, money and power. They are already doing that but if you had regional parties merge, they will be unstoppable.

 

A two party system like US is dangerous in India for exactly this reason. You can easily buy the politicians.

 

There are many fools here and in India will bow down as slaves to Adani, Ambani and Modi as long as they do silly things like banning beef within India (while India is third largest exporter of beef) but destroy the country in every other way possible where middle class and poor keep getting a lower standard of living.

 

People have lost logical sense long back and the media being bought out isn't helping with all the brainwashing going on...

 

If you have problem with Adani's net worth going up in the past decade then I see a point there. But you are insinuating that this govt is involved in this or someway complicit. I am suggesting that when UPA comes to power, they can prosecute Adani and whoever from govt is colluded in the wrong doings. You have problem with corruption but the left parties who have ruled for over 5-6 decades, were instrumental in leading corrupt practices. Have they done anything against corruption? If not then what is the guarantee that they will do anything substantial if they come to power with Lalu, MB, AK, SP and whoever else out there. 

 

I would support UPA govt's actions against corruption. But lets see if we can factually see any traces of their behavior from their reigns from 04-14 or previous 4-5 decades. This current govt in their favor, has implemented dozens of policies to eradicate corruption from various functions of govt. Subsidies, loans, distribution of schema benefits, healthcare benefits, you name it, and they have brought a lot of transparency in the policies.  

 

"Muslim population is 14.2%, as many as 31.3% of homes under Awas Yojana, 33% of funds under Kisan Samman Nidhi, and 36% beneficiaries under Mudra Yojana, have been Muslims."

Go ahead and prove the above claim to be wrong. While you are harping about Ambani, Adani, why not praise the govt for good work also. Are you a fair person? Dont get involved in rhetorics, "sab mile hue hai", "people are senseless" and "media is sold out", and so on. Bring in some facts

[dial_100]

In the meantime, this is staggering. It is so easy for opposition parties to counter BJP lead govt and Modi in particular with some stupid rhetorics, but when you look at this infographic, the bunch of jokers dont stand a chance even in 2029 and beyond.

 

 

[coffee_rules]

Modi trolling the opposition has all LeLis crying outrage that there is no democracy left in India!!!

 ‘Indian Mujahideen, East India Company, PFI also have INDIA’: PM Modi slams opposition bloc in BJP parliamentary meeting

[coffee_rules]

PM equating opposition with East India Company or Indian Mujahideen is not a casual remark or a joke.
He’s literally telling people of India that anyone who opposes him is either a foreigner or a terrorist.
This one man has destroyed 7 decades of democratic progress of India.

— Arfa Khanum Sherwani (@khanumarfa) July 25, 2023

[coffee_rules]

18 hours ago, dial_100 said:

In the meantime, this is staggering. It is so easy for opposition parties to counter BJP lead govt and Modi in particular with some stupid rhetorics, but when you look at this infographic, the bunch of jokers dont stand a chance even in 2029 and beyond.

 

 

 

Embedded tweet
 

 

Morgan Stanley analyses India’s economic transformation between 2013 and 2023. The change can’t be more stark… India is emerging as an economic powerhouse despite a debilitating once in a century pandemic and a global war, with wide reaching impact on energy and commodities… pic.twitter.com/PRbSIlpaZ0

— Amit Malviya (@amitmalviya) July 24, 2023

[Lone Wolf]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Modi trolling the opposition has all LeLis crying outrage that there is no democracy left in India!!!

 ‘Indian Mujahideen, East India Company, PFI also have INDIA’: PM Modi slams opposition bloc in BJP parliamentary meeting

A low IQ response...  He has launched hundreds of schemes like Khelo India,  Make in India,  Start up India etc... 

Inviting trolling himself...  Now are these terror organizations?? 

 

Hemanta Biswa alone is doing better job than him in countering this...  That's why Modi should retire.  Old age has caught up badly. 

[coffee_rules]

28 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

A low IQ response...  He has launched hundreds of schemes like Khelo India,  Make in India,  Start up India etc... 

Inviting trolling himself...  Now are these terror organizations?? 

 

Hemanta Biswa alone is doing better job than him in countering this...  That's why Modi should retire.  Old age has caught up badly. 

The message was  for the BJP karyakartas, not for the nation as a PM. As a party leader, he can target the opposition. As a PM, he launched Khelo India, Make in India, etc. Hence, I said, he’s trolling and opposition is in need of burnol now. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by coffee_rules

[Lone Wolf]

15 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

The message was  for the BJP karyakartas, not for the nation as a PM. As a party leader, he can target the opposition. As a PM, he launched Khelo India, Make in India, etc. Hence, I said, he’s trolling and opposition is in need of burnol now. 

He is himself spoiling all the effort...  And now is getting targeted as if he hates India.  As I said low IQ stuff..  He fell for it as simple as that.  Opposition named it INDIA for a damn reason. 

Doesn't matter he is popular but a dumb move is a dumb move. 

[Austin 3:!6]

On 7/22/2023 at 3:17 PM, BlueBlood said:

I request mods to delete all my posts and if needed ban my account since it's a public forum, I am worried my posts will bring unnecessary stress to this forum and myself due to censorship we have across the country.

 

It's scary what's happening to youtubers, Twitter posters etc. Who post anything against powerful corporates and politicians these days.

 

I hate political posts for exactly this reason but my intention was to just educate people on how economic policy is being ignored for social and identity politics that is harmful for common public in the long term.

All voices are welcome as long as no name calling etc. ICF is open to all views.

[BlueBlood]

On 7/24/2023 at 5:07 PM, dial_100 said:

In the meantime, this is staggering. It is so easy for opposition parties to counter BJP lead govt and Modi in particular with some stupid rhetorics, but when you look at this infographic, the bunch of jokers dont stand a chance even in 2029 and beyond.

 

 

 

 

 

Just go to World Bank's website and check 2022 GDP per capita stats:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2022&most_recent_value_desc=true&start=2009

 

India with the highest population in the world is worse than many African countries like Republic of Congo at: $2,388. Even Sri Lanka beats India in this measure.

 

Comparatively lets look at:

China: $12,720 (almost 6 times higher with similar population).

 

Or

 

Vietnam: $4,163.51

 

Or

 

Mexico: $11,091.31

 

Prior to 2009 - Vietnam was $1,684 (their prosperity went up 4x).

 

India in 2014 when Modi came to power was: $1,590.17 (similar to Vietnam) and in 2020 before the whole COVID money printing and inflation it was: $1,913.

 

Which means the whole Make in India campaign was a flop as Vietnam took all the manufacturing away from China and their individual prosperity went up 400%.

 

India? still stuck at barely even going up 17% in over 6 years time.

 

This is what I am saying all along, the income disparity is massive in India and wealth has only transferred to select group of corporates and business people closely aligned with politicians.

 

And add to that GST tax was added which added more burden on the poor as all consumption taxes benefit rich and hurt poor. It's been proven as poor spend all their money on goods/food etc. with zero savings while rich invest.

 

I cannot believe people here actually believe that Adani got Mumbai Airport and other ports without any political assistance.

 

The fact that you all BJP supporters agree power shouldn't be in two business people's hands but yet try to defend them is all we need to know about partisan politics.

 

You cannot have it both ways. Either you accept you support a corrupt government and monopolistic society similar to China that is happening currently Or you don't.

 

When income disparity is this high and wealth goes to only a select few at the top, all it has done and will continue to do is create more brain drain out of the country as always. The people who are left behind will want more government subsidies and freebies. That's been the case in Africa and other similar places for decades.

 

I have nothing more to add to this thread than to prove my point with hard stats.

[coffee_rules]

45 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Just go to World Bank's website and check 2022 GDP per capita stats:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2022&most_recent_value_desc=true&start=2009

 

India with the highest population in the world is worse than many African countries like Republic of Congo at: $2,388. Even Sri Lanka beats India in this measure.

 

Comparatively lets look at:

China: $12,720 (almost 6 times higher with similar population).

 

Or

 

Vietnam: $4,163.51

 

Or

 

Mexico: $11,091.31

 

Prior to 2009 - Vietnam was $1,684 (their prosperity went up 4x).

 

India in 2014 when Modi came to power was: $1,590.17 (similar to Vietnam) and in 2020 before the whole COVID money printing and inflation it was: $1,913.

 

Which means the whole Make in India campaign was a flop as Vietnam took all the manufacturing away from China and their individual prosperity went up 400%.

 

India? still stuck at barely even going up 17% in over 6 years time.

 

This is what I am saying all along, the income disparity is massive in India and wealth has only transferred to select group of corporates and business people closely aligned with politicians.

 

And add to that GST tax was added which added more burden on the poor as all consumption taxes benefit rich and hurt poor. It's been proven as poor spend all their money on goods/food etc. with zero savings while rich invest.

 

I cannot believe people here actually believe that Adani got Mumbai Airport and other ports without any political assistance.

 

The fact that you all BJP supporters agree power shouldn't be in two business people's hands but yet try to defend them is all we need to know about partisan politics.

 

You cannot have it both ways. Either you accept you support a corrupt government and monopolistic society similar to China that is happening currently Or you don't.

 

When income disparity is this high and wealth goes to only a select few at the top, all it has done and will continue to do is create more brain drain out of the country as always. The people who are left behind will want more government subsidies and freebies. That's been the case in Africa and other similar places for decades.

 

I have nothing more to add to this thread than to prove my point with hard stats.

GDP per capita obviously will be lower for India due to high population and large population under lower or middle income dependent on Agriculture. It doesn’t mean, living conditions are worse than Republic c of Congo
 

Economists say PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) based GDP indicates living conditions better , to compare countries.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/updates/purchasing-power-parity-ppp/
 

[Lord]

20 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

A low IQ response...  He has launched hundreds of schemes like Khelo India,  Make in India,  Start up India etc... 

Inviting trolling himself...  Now are these terror organizations?? 

 

Hemanta Biswa alone is doing better job than him in countering this...  That's why Modi should retire.  Old age has caught up badly. 

 

Everyone working overtime to spin it to something good

[BlueBlood]

55 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

GDP per capita obviously will be lower for India due to high population and large population under lower or middle income dependent on Agriculture. It doesn’t mean, living conditions are worse than Republic c of Congo
 

Economists say PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) based GDP indicates living conditions better , to compare countries.

 

https://www.investopedia.com/updates/purchasing-power-parity-ppp/
 

 

That's no longer good enough excuse as then India needs to match China - why is India lagging behind so much?

 

Check this article about GDP PPP and why it's flawed:

 

https://carnegieendowment.org/2014/05/02/do-we-understand-math-behind-ppp-calculations-pub-55498

"The problem is that in China bad debt is rarely recognized, repayment isn’t enforced, and default is almost non-existent. Banks simply roll bad debt over indefinitely. This makes comparisons between the two countries pretty hard. Why? It helps us to understand this if we think about the difference in the way we account for expenditures related to consumption and to investment. Normally, when you spend money on consumption, you create an expense. When you spend money on investment, you create an asset."

 

One other caveat is a lot of US Dollars in India is not from exports but expats sending money home to family. This also grossly over values GDP PPP.

 

GDP per capita is the only accurate measure as it calculates the true mean rather than median to check extremes. Mexico may be considered a poor country but per capita of $11k means a large percentage of the population is prosperous. This is not the case with Nigeria for example.

 

You can spin numbers however which way but GDP per capita barely edged up last 8 years compared to inflation - it's even worse once you remove COVID money printing.

Edited July 26, 2023 by BlueBlood

[coffee_rules]

22 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

That's no longer good enough excuse as then India needs to match China - why is India lagging behind so much?

 

Check this article about GDP PPP and why it's flawed:

 

https://carnegieendowment.org/2014/05/02/do-we-understand-math-behind-ppp-calculations-pub-55498

"The problem is that in China bad debt is rarely recognized, repayment isn’t enforced, and default is almost non-existent. Banks simply roll bad debt over indefinitely. This makes comparisons between the two countries pretty hard. Why? It helps us to understand this if we think about the difference in the way we account for expenditures related to consumption and to investment. Normally, when you spend money on consumption, you create an expense. When you spend money on investment, you create an asset."

 

One other caveat is a lot of US Dollars in India is not from exports but expats sending money home to family. This also grossly over values GDP PPP.

 

GDP per capita is the only accurate measure as it calculates the true mean rather than median to check extremes. Mexico may be considered a poor country but per capita of $11k means a large percentage of the population is prosperous. This is not the case with Nigeria for example.

 

You can spin numbers however which way but GDP per capita barely edged up last 8 years compared to inflation - it's even worse once you remove COVID money printing.

That’s not an excuse, but it is to say GDP per capita is not only number to compare countries, due to uneven population. With no population control and growing population. Even if we double the growth rate, it is not possible to complete with developed countries on this index.  And it’s not true index anyway. French want to do away with GDP comparison and use QoL index also to show why wealth is not the only indicator of richness. 
 

Read this, for GDP per capita to PPP comparison. There are many economists who differ one way or the other, it is not an exact science like Physics to take one’s theory as the sole one . 
 

https://saylordotorg.github.io/text_international-finance-theory-and-policy/s09-07-ppp-and-cross-country-comparis.html#:~:text=The PPP method of conversion,United States (%246%2C250 vs.

 

“

The PPP method of conversion is a much more accurate way of making cross-country comparisons of values between countries. In this example, although China’s per capita GDP was still considerably lower than in the United States ($6,250 vs. $41,400), it is nonetheless four and a half times higher than using the spot exchange rate ($6,250 vs. $1,390). The higher value takes account of the differences in prices between the countries and thus better reflects the differences in purchasing power of per capita GDP.”

Pack of cig costs 10 dollars, while the same costs much much lesser in India. Purchasing power is more accurate to guess living conditions.

 

You had 70  years of socialism based policies, one can hardly get GDP per capita increased. More relaxed economic policies for raising economic activity is the goal to increase GDP.  You want everything to be solved in last 9 years, when there is so much opposition to any liberal laws like the farm laws. Air India is the only instance of privatization in last 15 years. Go figure!

 

Remittances is 100 billion in 22-23 while GDP is 3+ trillion, such a low percentage to think that would offset country’s ppp. 

[ravishingravi]

GDP per capita maybe a good indicator. But how can one just look at nominal. Its not about the $. It's what you can buy with it. PPP. 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

Everyone working overtime to spin it to something good

BJP PR & IT cell is top tier...  Locals eat whatever they sell. 

But they can only do so much.  Any other leader would be roasted badly over this comment. 

[dial_100]

3 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

Just go to World Bank's website and check 2022 GDP per capita stats:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2022&most_recent_value_desc=true&start=2009

 

India with the highest population in the world is worse than many African countries like Republic of Congo at: $2,388. Even Sri Lanka beats India in this measure.

 

Comparatively lets look at:

China: $12,720 (almost 6 times higher with similar population).

 

Or

 

Vietnam: $4,163.51

 

Or

 

Mexico: $11,091.31

 

Prior to 2009 - Vietnam was $1,684 (their prosperity went up 4x).

 

India in 2014 when Modi came to power was: $1,590.17 (similar to Vietnam) and in 2020 before the whole COVID money printing and inflation it was: $1,913.

 

Which means the whole Make in India campaign was a flop as Vietnam took all the manufacturing away from China and their individual prosperity went up 400%.

 

India? still stuck at barely even going up 17% in over 6 years time.

 

This is what I am saying all along, the income disparity is massive in India and wealth has only transferred to select group of corporates and business people closely aligned with politicians.

 

And add to that GST tax was added which added more burden on the poor as all consumption taxes benefit rich and hurt poor. It's been proven as poor spend all their money on goods/food etc. with zero savings while rich invest.

 

I cannot believe people here actually believe that Adani got Mumbai Airport and other ports without any political assistance.

 

The fact that you all BJP supporters agree power shouldn't be in two business people's hands but yet try to defend them is all we need to know about partisan politics.

 

You cannot have it both ways. Either you accept you support a corrupt government and monopolistic society similar to China that is happening currently Or you don't.

 

When income disparity is this high and wealth goes to only a select few at the top, all it has done and will continue to do is create more brain drain out of the country as always. The people who are left behind will want more government subsidies and freebies. That's been the case in Africa and other similar places for decades.

 

I have nothing more to add to this thread than to prove my point with hard stats.

 

Its cute when leftists cry about BJP supporters all the time and yet never find answers themselves. I know it wont help but I never voted for BJP when I was in India. Not even once. Settled? Yes I do support them. 

 

For the sake of argument, lets accept your point about per capita and that BJP supporters are somehow ignoring the rapid growth of these 2 business groups. Please dont run away from the argument and be precise. 

 

1. Per Capita : tell me what your favorite parties did for the last 70 years to raise per capita? First to control population (Illegal migration and birth control) and second to rapidly increase economy by focusing on important industries, infrastructure, manufacturing, semiconductor, space, defense etc? 

 

2. The 2 Business groups: Why govts in left ruled states are allotting them govt contracts even now? 

 

Topics like income disparity, GST could be discussed later.

 

Just imagine, if you need India to have PC income at $10K, we would need to raise our economy to $14T or PC to be at $15K the economy would have to be  at $21T. In the 10 years of MMS/Cong rule, economy rose from $0.8T to $2T with 0 focus on infrastructure, manufacturing, defense. On top of that, there was a massive corruption. So your track record on economy front was abysmal. Tell me how will they turn around things assuming Modi gone and you have Harvard educated as your PM