Kuldeep Yadav is a big asset that we have, needs to be managed

[R!TTER]

I mean is that really a surprise? Kuldeep's no mug with the bat in tests but we'll play fake "Bapu" 9/10 times because he bats better oh & look at his excellent record on *ing turners, shock horror someone who hasn't played many test outside India has a better record than someone with half(?) his tests outside 

Primary team India

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2017

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 5

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
Kuldeep Yadav	2017-2022	4	6	106.5	22	352	18	5/40	8/113	19.55	3.29	35.6	2	0
AR Patel	2022-2022	2	4	72.3	18	187	8	4/77	5/87	23.37	2.57	54.3	0	0
R Ashwin	2017-2023	22	41	865.5	167	2303	82	7/71	12/131	28.08	2.65	63.3	3	1
GH Vihari	2018-2022	13	9	48.3	9	142	5	3/37	3/38	28.40	2.92	58.2	0	0
RA Jadeja	2017-2024	18	31	590.5	125	1614	55	5/152	7/236	29.34	2.73	64.4	1	0

 

 

A leg spinner needs a good captain but of course no one will question the batters or the cap who's probably slower than turtles nowadays 

[Gollum]

While I like Kuldeep, he bowled worse than Chahal ever did in the WC final. So let us not treat him as some messiah, he too is mentally weak, WC SF aur F mein bahut buri tarah pela gaya usko. 

[Gollum]

On Indian tracks Kuldeep isn't that big an upgrade over old/declined Ash/Jaddu or present Axar. 19-20 ka faraq hai. 

Edited January 30 by Gollum

[Frustrated]

38 minutes ago, Gollum said:

On Indian tracks Kuldeep isn't that big an upgrade over old/declined Ash/Jaddu or present Axar. 19-20 ka faraq hai. 

Agree.  Another thing is Axar Jaddu Ashwin all can bat.   Kuldeep can't. 

[R!TTER]

34 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Another thing is Axar Jaddu Ashwin all can bat.   Kuldeep can't. 

Really? This coming at everyone's favorite number 9 spot -

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-in-bangladesh-2022-23-1340842/bangladesh-vs-india-1st-test-1340848/full-scorecard

 

Not to mention he was the difference between Ind/Oz in his debut game back in 2017 - his biggest plus point is that 99.9% batters don't always pick him off the hand. When you're playing him defensively you can get away with that every now & then, but when playing attacking shots this plays into his hands - this is assuming we're also not dropping half a dozen catches/chances he might create! You can't fix bad fielding/shite catching so there's always caveats.

Edited January 30 by R!TTER

[Number]

Some people may disagree but in no way Kuldeep as a spinner is inferior to Ashwin. He has outbowled Ashwin by miles in matches they played together.

Problem is Kuldeep doesn't get to play on raging turners and on such turners Ashwin's batting gives him an edge.

[Lone Wolf]

13 minutes ago, Number said:

Some people may disagree but in no way Kuldeep as a spinner is inferior to Ashwin. He has outbowled Ashwin by miles in matches they played together.

Problem is Kuldeep doesn't get to play on raging turners and on such turners Ashwin's batting gives him an edge.

Day 1 flat pitch give me Kuldeep over Ash anyday. 

Some instances 

 

Iconic Dharamsala decider vs Aus in 2017...  Kuldeep turned the game when Warner was cruising till Lunch. 

 

Chattogram test...  Flat pitch Ashwin looking toothless as ever on day 1.  Kuldeep again managed to get something out of the surface & picked a match winning 5 for. 

 

Though I think Ashwin will do better when Pitch is a raging Turner as he is a finger spinner with greater accuracy. 

Kuldeep could be a double edged sword in that case. 

But BazBall having figured Ash out so Kuldeep is only option left anyways. 

[R!TTER]

6 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

But BazBall having figured Ash out so Kuldeep is only option left anyways. 

Tbf to Ashwin and Jadeja even on such wickets, flat or turners, they've rarely failed in both innings - Pune 2017 they bowled below par in first innings but did much better in the second, problem was our batting Chumps dropped half a dozen catches! Axar has been seriously below par though after his debut series. Even here we dropped what 4-6 chances in the game? You can't win close games with such BS fielding & yes it comes from the top with fat arse unable to move his  10 pound rear at anything 10m/2s 

Edited January 30 by R!TTER

[putrevus]

Can Kuldeep be fast enough in the air to defeat the batsmen if they go for leather.

Edited January 30 by putrevus

[Frustrated]

I hv lost faith in Kuldeep after his complete no-show in SF and Final.  Yes, the pitches were not exactly conducive but he failed miserably in both crucial games.   Picked Zero Wicket when it mattered the most.   Being expensive is fine as long as u are able to pick one or two wickets.   Had he picked even one wicket in the Final, it could hv made a difference as Aus had already lost 3 quick wickets in the first 10 overs.  

Edited January 30 by Frustrated

[putrevus]

18 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

I hv lost faith in Kuldeep after his complete no-show in SF and Final.  Yes, the pitches were not exactly conducive but he failed miserably in both crucial games.   Picked Zero Wicket when it mattered the most.   Being expensive is fine as long as u are able to pick one or two wickets.   Had he picked even one wicket in the Final, it could hv made a difference as Aus had already lost 3 quick wickets in the first 10 overs.  

He has improved his pace but it is still too slow and he does not spin ball enough like any other Indian spinner.

 

So even if the batsmen get beaten thru air, they still have ample time to play him off the pitch.

[Number]

57 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

I hv lost faith in Kuldeep after his complete no-show in SF and Final.  Yes, the pitches were not exactly conducive but he failed miserably in both crucial games.   Picked Zero Wicket when it mattered the most.   Being expensive is fine as long as u are able to pick one or two wickets.   Had he picked even one wicket in the Final, it could hv made a difference as Aus had already lost 3 quick wickets in the first 10 overs.  

He wasn't that bad in SF. Williamson was saved by umpire's call and on that ground under lights having less than 6 rpo is a good performance.

His last 2 overs under pressure were class. Picked up Chapman's key wicket who could be dangerous.

Finals I agree, but again too much dew didn't help. He got an edge from Labushagne, should have asked Rohit to keep slip.

 

Edited January 30 by Number

[Vijy]

kuldeep is not fast enough with the ball (a la kumble) or puts enough revs on the ball (a la warne & mcgill) despite being a wristspinner.

[Gollum]

13 hours ago, Number said:

Some people may disagree but in no way Kuldeep as a spinner is inferior to Ashwin. He has outbowled Ashwin by miles in matches they played together.

Problem is Kuldeep doesn't get to play on raging turners and on such turners Ashwin's batting gives him an edge.

Kuch bhi, how were the pitches like in 2011-19? 2012 Hyderabad, 2016 Indore, 2017 Chennai (Jaddu), 2019 Vizag etc. kya the phir? The day Kuldeep does well on those kind of wickets (by well I mean 10fers) you will have some merit. 
 

Edited January 31 by Gollum

[Gollum]

13 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Day 1 flat pitch give me Kuldeep over Ash anyday. 

Some instances 

 

Iconic Dharamsala decider vs Aus in 2017...  Kuldeep turned the game when Warner was cruising till Lunch. 

 

Chattogram test...  Flat pitch Ashwin looking toothless as ever on day 1.  Kuldeep again managed to get something out of the surface & picked a match winning 5 for. 

 

Though I think Ashwin will do better when Pitch is a raging Turner as he is a finger spinner with greater accuracy. 

Kuldeep could be a double edged sword in that case. 

But BazBall having figured Ash out so Kuldeep is only option left anyways. 

Day 1 aur bhi hai bhai. Jaise 2018 Edgbaston, 2020 Adelaide, 2021 MCG, even Jaddu in 2021 SCG brought India back from 200/2 (heck even Centurion 2017 though that wasn't that doctored because of drought I think )....all these performances are leagues above Kuldeep's much hyped Dharamsala performance (even there check who got the dangerous Smith out, that itself saved us 100 runs). What Kuldeep did in Dharamsala, many spinners have done on day 1 flat pitches in India. But Ashwin and Jaddu have done on day 1 in SENA, either saving us from deep **** or giving us a winning position on 1st day.

 

Kuldeep is good but also overrated on this forum as we saw in the WC. If Chahal had come up with that kind of trash performance, there would be 10 threads mocking him. But Kuldeep is forum ka favorite. Anyway I think once batsmen read Kuldeep's hands he is more toothless than Sundar, like how Mitchell showed in Dharamsala or Eng in 2019 WC, or Moeen in some random IPL game which made Kuldeep cry on the field. And trust me he won't be a mystery bowler for long, top teams like Eng and Aus will study him in detail and start picking from his hands even if it takes them 1 or 2 tests, aur uske baad bahut dhulai hogi uski. People who compare him with Warne must realize that neither does Kuldeep have that much revs, nor is he anywhere close to Warne's accuracy and precision. Or even bowling IQ, or heart.

 

Ok maanta hoon ki Indian TM, BCCI are all evil and anti-Kuldeep. But why did Baz and Morgan ignore him in KKR and even allowed him to go to DC? I consider these 2 the most up to date cricketing minds in the world today, and they don't have any stakes in India selection or part of some conspiracy against certain Indian players. And though harsh at first, Baz is vindicated in his judgement of Gill, so think about it. Why did Kuldeep get treated that way in KKR?

[Gollum]

11 hours ago, Number said:

He wasn't that bad in SF. Williamson was saved by umpire's call and on that ground under lights having less than 6 rpo is a good performance.

His last 2 overs under pressure were class. Picked up Chapman's key wicket who could be dangerous.

Finals I agree, but again too much dew didn't help. He got an edge from Labushagne, should have asked Rohit to keep slip.

 

Williamson was also saved by umpire's call in 2019 SF, bowler Chahal. If you want to take solace in umpire's call, 1 wicket, edge when there wasn't slip (batsmen might have played differently if slip were there) etc. Chahal will have a greater claim for sympathy. 

[Gollum]

Anyway Kuldeep is the one guy I have hopes on. Good bowler, at the peak of his powers, in form year. 

 

Jaddu missing, Axar not good enough and Ashwin is 37+, same age when Kumble looked so toothless in the home BGT that he retired in the middle of the series. 

[Lone Wolf]

8 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Day 1 aur bhi hai bhai. Jaise 2018 Edgbaston, 2020 Adelaide, 2021 MCG, even Jaddu in 2021 SCG brought India back from 200/2 (heck even Centurion 2017 though that wasn't that doctored because of drought I think )....all these performances are leagues above Kuldeep's much hyped Dharamsala performance (even there check who got the dangerous Smith out, that itself saved us 100 runs). What Kuldeep did in Dharamsala, many spinners have done on day 1 flat pitches in India. But Ashwin and Jaddu have done on day 1 in SENA, either saving us from deep **** or giving us a winning position on 1st day.

 

Kuldeep is good but also overrated on this forum as we saw in the WC. If Chahal had come up with that kind of trash performance, there would be 10 threads mocking him. But Kuldeep is forum ka favorite. Anyway I think once batsmen read Kuldeep's hands he is more toothless than Sundar, like how Mitchell showed in Dharamsala or Eng in 2019 WC, or Moeen in some random IPL game which made Kuldeep cry on the field. And trust me he won't be a mystery bowler for long, top teams like Eng and Aus will study him in detail and start picking from his hands even if it takes them 1 or 2 tests, aur uske baad bahut dhulai hogi uski. People who compare him with Warne must realize that neither does Kuldeep have that much revs, nor is he anywhere close to Warne's accuracy and precision. Or even bowling IQ, or heart.

 

Ok maanta hoon ki Indian TM, BCCI are all evil and anti-Kuldeep. But why did Baz and Morgan ignore him in KKR and even allowed him to go to DC? I consider these 2 the most up to date cricketing minds in the world today, and they don't have any stakes in India selection or part of some conspiracy against certain Indian players. And though harsh at first, Baz is vindicated in his judgement of Gill, so think about it. Why did Kuldeep get treated that way in KKR?

I only pointed out those instances where Ashwin & Kuldeep played together on flat conditions. 

Not denying the fact that Ashwin has served India very well. 

But let's be honest age has caught up with him.  He has poor fitness & I don't think he is putting much revs on the ball to trouble batters in flat conditions anymore. 

That 2018 & 2021 Aus series Ashwin used to put double the amount of revs he is putting now. 

[R!TTER]

Purely in terms of mental fortitude we really have no standout bowlers, or batters, nowadays. Ashwin's record in tough conditions is at best 50/50 - it's worse when you only count his record away from Asia. Jadeja is almost the same but his batting/fielding gives him a slight edge vs Ashwin, Kuldeep's a better bowler way IMO but worse batter & slightly better fielder than Ashwin right now. I will add though that in terms of catching we're really stuffed - the likes of Dravid, VVS, SRT, Sehwag were all generally safe to brilliant catchers in the slips. The top order *s these days can't catch, bowl or bat 

[Gollum]

16 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I only pointed out those instances where Ashwin & Kuldeep played together on flat conditions. 

Not denying the fact that Ashwin has served India very well. 

But let's be honest age has caught up with him.  He has poor fitness & I don't think he is putting much revs on the ball to trouble batters in flat conditions anymore. 

That 2018 & 2021 Aus series Ashwin used to put double the amount of revs he is putting now. 

If the decline is permanent (good chance it is), we must be ruthless and drop Ashwin in this series itself. Can't fight father time, and maybe this will give us Washi the test player. 

Edited January 31 by Gollum