Should we bring back Ashwin?

[Nikhil_cric]

49 minutes ago, IndianRenegade said:

off-spin doing a lot of lifting here considering none of them proven in matches that they are able bowl and full fill this role.

That's just for options so that there will be a part time spinner no matter what 6 batters you pick out of 7

 

If you pick 3 bowlers , you should get 30. 

 

7 overs from Pandya, 8 overs from Thakur/Axar , 5 overs from part time spinner.

 

I think that is workable.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Nikhil_cric

[vvvslaxman]

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

We ain't winning with the combinations and players we have chosen. This team has too many weaknesses to exploit but we are focussed on big names and gut feel  rather than data and strategy. 

 

Only chance is if we can somehow get this squad

 

Batters.                    Reserves

 

Ishan(wk)                     SKY(off spin)

Rohit                            Samson

Kohli                             Umran Malik

Shubman

KL

Shreyas(off spin)

Varma (off spin)

 

All-rounders

 

Pandya

Thakur

Axar (if unfit, Washi)

 

 

Bowlers

 

Siraj

Bumrah

Prasidh

Shami

Kuldeep

 

 

This should cover a lot of areas and they have to get part time spin from guys mentioned.  SKY as reserve for one of Varma/Iyer and Samson as reserve for the keepers.  Umran for pacers .

 

 

 

 

 

Iyer can bowl leg spin too. Just that he doesn't bowl al ot in real matches. 

[vvvslaxman]

Too bad they didn't give weightage to Deodar Trophy

 

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Iyer can bowl leg spin too. Just that he doesn't bowl al ot in real matches. 

There is no combination that will work unless we get atleast 5 overs of part time off spin. That's the truth.  It's the one thing all our so called batters want to avoid but avoiding it, will kill any balance possible .

 

Even SL and BD don't play specialist offies anymore. 

 

Indian TM and fans swinging like it's still the 90's 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Nikhil_cric

[Nikhil_cric]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Too bad they didn't give weightage to Deodar Trophy

 

 

 

Been banging on about it. He's the most obvious pick.

 

Scored against the tougher attacks in VH and picked wickets there as well. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Been banging on about it. He's the most obvious pick.

 

Scored against the tougher attacks in VH and picked wickets there as well. 

 

 

 

Yes. Tilak varma bashed Manipur by scoring 132 in 77 balls and Himachal prasdesh by scoring 121. Against bigger sides performance was middling or below average.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Been banging on about it. He's the most obvious pick.

 

Scored against the tougher attacks in VH and picked wickets there as well. 

 

 

 

Look at the number of sixes. 23 sixes. You have this jadeja guy who made List A debut in 2006. 17 years back. Has a grand total of 77 sixes and 2 centuries. This guy has scored  2 centuries in one season. Overall 5.

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

There is no combination that will work unless we get atleast 5 overs of part time off spin. That's the truth.  It's the one thing all our so called batters want to avoid but avoiding it, will kill any balance possible .

 

Even SL and BD don't play specialist offies anymore. 

 

Indian TM and fans swinging like it's still the 90's 

 

Jadeja's contribution as a batsman is what making it look worse than it is. He should be a specialist and reliable batsman. He is not even 25% of Yuvraj as a pcakage. Heck even falls short of Raina as a package.  Pandya regardless of how he is doing well, i always want to keep an eye on his fitness. Any time it can happen.

[Nikhil_cric]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Look at the number of sixes. 23 sixes. You have this jadeja guy who made List A debut in 2006. 17 years back. Has a grand total of 77 sixes and 2 centuries. This guy has scored  2 centuries in one season. Overall 5.

They don't like him. No IPL performances, supposedly irreverent attitude etc. He's the #6 se need .

 

Also bats like these modern bats - toe end of the bat skywards and front face towards gully - maximising bat speed and is a natural counter attacking batsman. 

[putrevus]

35 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Dude, please stop with this ridiculous nonsense. 

 

Dropped catches are part of the game?  What stupidity is this? 

 

Jadeja was the worst player in the entire 2015 World Cup squad. Forget about just knockouts. 

 

He was the worst bowler , averaging 40 with the ball when everyone else was averaging 25 or less. 

 

Also, he came to bat at 7 and scored like 50 runs in 5 batting innings.

 

CT 2017

 

Jadeja was the 2nd worst bowler after Ashwin for India in the tournament , averaging 62 with the ball despite playing as a bowler at #8.

 

 

He only played 3 matches in the 2019  World Cup. That was a good knock but hardly indicative of anything permanent. 

 

 

Asia Cup 2023(against SL, BD, PAK)

 

Jadeja with bat at at #7

 

25 runs in 3 innings. Average of 8. Below Bumrah and slightly above Thakur and Shami at 7 and 6.

 

Jadeja with ball against same teams

 

Average of 37 with the ball when

 

Pandya, Thakur, Siraj, Bumrah, Kuldeep and Shami all averaged below 20 on spin friendly pitches !

 

 

Asia Cup 2014 (against BD, PAK, SL)

 

Was terrible with the ball, averaging 42 with the ball on spinning BD wickets where Ashwin, Mishra and Shami were running riot

 

Scored a good half century so was not the worst member of the squad.

 

Asia Cup 2018(against BD and Pakistan)

 

Scored 23 runs at 68 odd strike rate coming in at #7.  But couldn't finish the chase. Bhuvi scored 21 runs at same strike rate after that at #8 , exposing this guy. 

 

Ended with bowling figures worse than Kuldeep, Bumrah, Bhuvi and Kedar Jadhav  for the tournament . Only Chahal was worse.

 

 

 

This is the guy you think is alright because Bumrah apparently chokes in knockouts and because catches are part of the game.

 

One fluke 77 in a knockout does not erase a decade of mediocrity , being part of the ODI squad. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So catches have been dropped only of poor Bumrah. Where do you come up with these gems.

 

Bumrah has stunk all his career in knock out matches in perfect bowling conditions.

 

Jadeja's job was being a support bowler in  2015, 2017 and in 2019. 

 

That 77 was played in most important match , It would have been match winning if Bumrah showed up then.

 

That was not Bumrah's only stinker , his long line of stinkers ,2019 Semis and 2017 finals not to mention T20 semis in 2016 .

ICC test finals 2021 is again where the great Bumrah could not buy even a wicket.

Jadeja was part time player in 2019 .He will  play his part again this world cup as part timer depending on the situation.

 

When Bumrah stops choking in big matches, we will revisit Bumrah's greatness.

 

Jadeja was MOM in finals last time India won an ICC trophy.

 

Let Bumrah win MOM in any knock match for change.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by putrevus

[Nikhil_cric]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Jadeja's contribution as a batsman is what making it look worse than it is. He should be a specialist and reliable batsman. He is not even 25% of Yuvraj as a pcakage. Heck even falls short of Raina as a package.  Pandya regardless of how he is doing well, i always want to keep an eye on his fitness. Any time it can happen.

Yeah that's the issue. You can't expect a good top 7 batsman or a proper wicket taking bowler at 8 from this guy. 

 

All of our spin all-rounders are overrated. 

 

All teams (including BD and SL) 

have spinners who are either

 

1. Batters who bowl offspin (DDS,          Iftikhar, Travis Head, Markram,        Philips, Root, Mehidy)

 

2.  Accurate SLA's who can hit -              Nasum, Nawaz, Wellalage,                  Santner.

 

3. Specialist wrist spinner/ mystery        spinner(Theeksana/Mujeeb)

 

We don't have anyone who fits into any of these categories except wristie.

 

Our finger spinners are the only ones in the world who can't bat in the top order or be a late order hitter or have some real mystery by spining the ball both ways from a tight line and at high speed like Theeksana/Mujeeb .

 

Our LOI cricket is way behind the times 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

20 minutes ago, putrevus said:

So catches have been dropped only of poor Bumrah. Where do you come up with these gems.

 

Bumrah has stunk all his career in knock out matches in perfect bowling conditions.

 

Jadeja's job was being a support bowler in  2015, 2017 and in 2019. 

 

That 77 was played in most important match , It would have been match winning if Bumrah showed up then.

 

That was not Bumrah's only stinker , his long line of stinkers ,2019 Semis and 2017 finals not to mention T20 semis in 2016 .

ICC test finals 2021 is again where the great Bumrah could not buy even a wicket.

Jadeja was part time player in 2019 .He will  play his part again this world cup as part timer depending on the situation.

 

When Bumrah stops choking in big matches, we will revisit Bumrah's greatness.

 

Jadeja was MOM in finals last time India won an ICC trophy.

 

Let Bumrah win MOM in any knock match for change.

 

Bumrah may have, questionably, choked in ICC tournament but Jadeja is the biggest failure in Indian white ball cricket for over 9 years and especially in ODI cricket . Never has a player so mediocre got such unyielding support regardless of his fraud numbers either as batter or bowler.

 

Support bowler ? Lmao.  So support bowler batting at #7 will not give us runs nor will he pick up wickets and it's OK?

 

 

 

 

[Khota]

Yes for ODI not 20.

[Suhaan]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

 Bumrah might not be sole reason for India stinking in knock out matches but his ineffectiveness in pressure matches is a major reason for India not doing anything in knock out matches since 2016. 

What stopped Kohli and other top batters to overhaul the not so tall target?

Kohli too has stunked and stunked big alongwith Rohit in crucial/ko matches in last 6 years?

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Suhaan

[Vijy]

on pitches that turn, it is good to have ashwin in the team