What role will Ashwin play for the rest of the world cup ? Ashwin should be a no-brainer (vs. Shardul ) against SENA teams in knock-out games.

[Nikhil_cric]

Just now, Serpico said:

Where would you have bowled ashwin in that match? Biggest partnership in the match was Babar-Rizwan, two right handers. Jadeja built tension by bowling quick economical overs and eventually siraj and kuldeep cashed in on that tension. If ashwin was there, Rohit might have used him and released all the pressure. 

Did you see either Netherlsnds vs PAK or SL vs PAK. 

 

Aryan Dutt and Theeksana threatened them the most .  If India cannot play Ashwin against PAK, then they should not have selected him in the first place. 

[Serpico]

One underrated benefit of having thakur is, he can be easily overlooked during bowling changes when he's not needed, without any awkwardness. Yesterday he bowled two overs and conceded a couple of boundaries and Rohit quickly removed him and brought back jaddu. This proved to the correct decision as Babar is not fluent against lefty spinners. If ashwin was there, rohit might have persisted with him since he's a 'senior' etc. 

 

Imagine if ashwin only bowled two overs in a full match.. all the commentators will point this out, all the media hungama is everything okay between rohit and ashwin bla bla. Unnecessary dramas. 

[Serpico]

4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Did you see either Netherlsnds vs PAK or SL vs PAK. 

 

Aryan Dutt and Theeksana threatened them the most .  If India cannot play Ashwin against PAK, then they should not have selected him in the first place. 

Ashwin is backup for axar, would you have played axar if he was fit?

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

This was a spinning pitch and an opponent that doesn't play off spin well. Where else will you play Ash? 

 

Even Netherlands recognised that and brought Aryan friggin Dutt on and had success on a much flatter deck in Hyderabad. 

 

 

Opposition that doesn't play off spin well? Where's that from? Why does then Ash average 38 v them. All other offies going back to Bhajji seem to be struggling too. Only Murali did well. 

 

They certainly play off spin better than medium pace. Even in Ned game they struggled v medium pacer more than Aryan Dutt.

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, Serpico said:

One underrated benefit of having thakur is, he can be easily overlooked during bowling changes when he's not needed, without any awkwardness. Yesterday he bowled two overs and conceded a couple of boundaries and Rohit quickly removed him and brought back jaddu. This proved to the correct decision as Babar is not fluent against lefty spinners. If ashwin was there, rohit might have persisted with him since he's a 'senior' etc. 

 

Imagine if ashwin only bowled two overs in a full match.. all the commentators will point this out, all the media hungama is everything okay between rohit and ashwin bla bla. Unnecessary dramas. 

 

Also he's a better hitter. Can be used if we need quick runs towards the end.

[Nikhil_cric]

1 minute ago, Serpico said:

Ashwin is backup for axar, would you have played axar if he was fit?

Ashwin is a much better bowler currently than Axar . Axar was picked mostly to lengthen that batting lineup.

 

Point is, you dont select a specialist off spinner in a squad if you're not even going to play him in a match against a team that struggles against offies the most .

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

Opposition that doesn't play off spin well? Where's that from? Why does then Ash average 38 v them. All other offies going back to Bhajji seem to be struggling too. Only Murali did well. 

 

They certainly play off spin better than medium pace. Even in Ned game they struggled v medium pacer more than Aryan Dutt.

When was the last time Ashwin played against PAK? I'm talking about current PAK team. 

[vvvslaxman]

20 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Well in some places where there's swing/bounce he can be handy. Here in Lucknow tonight in fact he could've been useful with the massive boundaries.

 

But ball doesn't swing much after 10 overs. Most of the time we use Bumrah and Siraj when the ball swings. After that you have to stick to cross seam stuff, slower ones, into the deck stuffs. 

[R!TTER]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

After that you have to stick to cross seam stuff, slower ones, into the deck stuffs. 

And depending on the pitch/stadium he can be handy like here today, the issue is the KO games - none of them are being held in traditional Indian strongholds, at least not this time of the year where dew can have a massive impact!

8 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I'm talking about current PAK team. 

CT finals from what I remember!

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

When was the last time Ashwin played against PAK? I'm talking about current PAK team. 

ok then why do Moeen,Maxwell,Nabi all struggle v them?

 

[vvvslaxman]

 I have no issues Thakur playing. But when he sucks he sucks real bad. Can leak runs in all phases. He can completely neutralize any advantage you get from other bowlers. His batting regressed so bad that he is now days more a no.9 batsman

[Lord]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 I have no issues Thakur playing. But when he sucks he sucks real bad. Can leak runs in all phases. He can completely neutralize any advantage you get from other bowlers. His batting regressed so bad that he is now days more a no.9 batsman

 

In big games he tends to focus more. Anyway can be hidden

 

I'd still play Shami but Ashwin/Thakur are equal depending on opposition/conditions

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, R!TTER said:

And depending on the pitch/stadium he can be handy like here today, the issue is the KO games - none of them are being held in traditional Indian strongholds, at least not this time of the year where dew can have a massive impact!

CT finals from what I remember!

 

From whatever i have seen so far off spinners play a major role. Maxwell,  Ashwin most recently against Australia,  Nabi. Guys like DeKock are suspect against off spinners.  In IPL out of 12 innings Ashwin has dismissed him 4 times. Just goes for 6 runs an over. 

[Nikhil_cric]

Also @Lord

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=7;orderby=economy_rate;spanmin1=01+Jan+2021;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

Sort that list by economy and see how many offspinners have strangulated them. Babar struggles against half decent off spin. 

 

They get choked by even mediocre off spin and it's been an issue for a long time .

 

And no team plays off spin worse than Pakistan. 

 

Even minnows play off spin better.

 

And Ash is no ordinary off spinner. He can turn it both ways too. 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

ok then why do Moeen,Maxwell,Nabi all struggle v them?

 

Huh? When did these bowlers struggle vs them.

 

Look at the list I've put up

[IndiaWC8311]

Thakur is a volatile stock. Don't know which way he will go on any particular day.

 

Ashwin is a reliable, yield based stock. Know exactly what you get with him.

 

You already have volatility in Siraj, Pandu etc so it depends how you want to go

 

My preference is Ashwin but can go with either as both have winning mentality having won multiple IPL titles under MSD

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

In big games he tends to focus more. Anyway can be hidden

 

I'd still play Shami but Ashwin/Thakur are equal depending on opposition/conditions

 

Shami  is way better than Thakur in Indian conditions. Next option is Ashwin.  I don't think even Rohit trusts Thakur. He is just there as some kind of back up within the XI rather than an useful entity in some capacity.

[sensible-indian]

14 hours ago, Adamant said:

What did he do when ball was turning in Chennai?

Actually by the time it started turning, he had bowled 6 overs and taken out of spell after a couple of threatening overs.

 

Then he came back after a lot of wickets had fell, took green (fluke wicket) and then tail blocked him.

 

The same Ashwin killed the game against aus when he had a few overs to bowl when the pitch turned.

 

Its not all about final stats.

Edited October 16, 2023 by sensible-indian

[sensible-indian]

I would rather play surya, shami or Ash over Thakur.

[Lord]

26 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Actually by the time it started turning, he had bowled 6 overs and taken out of spell after a couple of threatening overs.

 

Then he came back after a lot of wickets had fell, took green (fluke wicket) and then tail blocked him.

 

The same Ashwin killed the game against aus when he had a few overs to bowl when the pitch turned.

 

Its not all about final stats.

 

Ball was turning throughout in Aus game. Ashwin was darting. After he came back lot of wickets had fallen and RR was low so he could flight it.

 

Same way in that ODI, we were defending 400 so he could bowl like a Test match.

 

Lacks courage otherwise or it maybe team direction. Nabi bowled much better yesterday on a flatter deck.