What role will Ashwin play for the rest of the world cup ? Ashwin should be a no-brainer (vs. Shardul ) against SENA teams in knock-out games.

[rangeelaraja]

Shardul's batting is marginally better than Ashwins, while Ashwin's bowling is vastly superior to Shardul's - in our home conditions.

 

Teams like RSA, Eng and even NZ with gun batters would just decimate Shardul kind of bowling on flat track wickets.

 

I wonder how the Team is going to manage Ashwin for the remaining league matches ?

 

Probably play him against lesser to give him game time and save him up against SENA teams for knock-out games ?

 

Given how Jaddu and Kuldeep bowled today, I think Ashwin could easily match/better their bowling on these kind of wickets.

 

3 spinners is our best chance against SENA countries in these conditions.

[rangeelaraja]

Thoughts @vvvslaxman ?

[Vijy]

11 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

Shardul's batting is marginally better than Ashwins, while Ashwin's bowling is vastly superior to Shardul's - in our home conditions.

 

Teams like RSA, Eng and even NZ with gun batters would just decimate Shardul kind of bowling on flat track wickets.

 

I wonder how the Team is going to manage Ashwin for the remaining league matches ?

 

Probably play him against lesser to give him game time and save him up against SENA teams for knock-out games ?

 

Given how Jaddu and Kuldeep bowled today, I think Ashwin could easily match/better their bowling on these kind of wickets.

 

3 spinners is our best chance against SENA countries in these conditions.

ashwin is a better bat than shardul too. his power hitting has improved, he has better technique and could even be a floater on some more bowling-friendly pitches

[jf1gp_1]

Playing XI of India and Pakistan are built on different philosophy. India primarily went with specialist while pak middle order is batsmen who can bowler or bowler who can bat.  For now our method has worked and both Aussies and pak with focus on utility players have struggled for now. Lets see how it progresses. 

[rangeelaraja]

19 minutes ago, Vijy said:

ashwin is a better bat than shardul too. his power hitting has improved, he has better technique and could even be a floater on some more bowling-friendly pitches

 

+ 1.

 

Ashwin has rarely failed us with the bat.

[SRT100]

Ashwin in the subcontinent especially on flat pitches is a competent batsmen to at least hold down one end. He can bat with a good batsmen to get us to a target or set one.

[Vijy]

10 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

+ 1.

 

Ashwin has rarely failed us with the bat.

if anything, I think ashwin in last 2 years or so (speaking only of ODIs) is underrated with bat, and perhaps overrated with ball, even in SC. One thing I have to say for Lord T is that he finds some random way of getting wkts

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

Ashwin in the subcontinent especially on flat pitches is a competent batsmen to at least hold down one end. He can bat with a good batsmen to get us to a target or set one.

he has also improved hitting. In T20 intls, the sample size is low, but he had a SR of 136 in 2022.

[Majestic]

Batting wise, they are more or less sample. Ashwin is actually more reliable with bat than Thakur although Thakur is probably more brutal striker than Ashwin.

 

Bowling wise, Thakur is a wicket taker but leaks a lot of runs. Ashwin is not a wicket taker though and is economical. Ashwin is better than Thakur overall.

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

Thoughts @vvvslaxman ?

 

India made the mistake of going in with 4 seamers at oval. Now it is in the past. This is India. Going in with 4 seamers including Pandya is overkill if you ask me. 

 

 

 

 

Shami instead of Thakur would make more sense in some conditions. But he can be lethal in some places. His form is a mystery though.  That also weakens the batting. So India will be reluctant. So it will be between SKY assuming Pandya can bowl 10,  Ashwin and Thakur. 

Thakur relies on randomness to pick wickets. In swinging conditions he can swing. But with Siraj and Booms he is hardly going to get new ball. Ashwin on the other hand on a turning wicket can become a match winner himself.

 

 

Thakur/Ashwin in various phases. It is going to be skewed given that Ashwin played long back. But it is no brainer you will get better Economy than Thakur. 

 

 

Power play

 

Thakur - 11 wicket avge 44 Economy 6.28

Ashwin -  5 wickets avge 46.60 Economy 5.68

 

Middle overs

 

Thakur - 44 wickets  avge 25.22 Economy 5.62

Ashwin  - 121 wickets avge 35.14 Economy 4.77

 

Death overs

 

Thakur -  9 wickets avge 40.11 Economy 9.06

Ashwin - 28 wickets avge 24.42 Economy 5.92

 

 

Pros and Cons

 

Thakur

Can swing the ball

Can pick wickets with random change ups

Not sure how, but he picks 2 wickets in one over 

Better striker with bat albeit it has never happened in ODis

 

Cons

Unpredictable

Batting is a bonus not reliable

very expensive in all phases

 

 

Ashwin

Will give you better control

Predictable

Much more reliable and effective batsman under pressure.

Biggest plus is he is an asset against left handers

 

Cons

Predictability, he could quickly resort to darting

Fielding . Not a massive downgrade though compared to Thakur

 

 

 

In theory they have to look at the tracks and decide the combination.  Looking at today's selection it seems he will be played agianst subcontinent teams,  Ashwin against SENA

 

 

 

 

[bsriharsha]

3 pacers 3 spinners give a good balance to the side. 

 

Either play Ashwin ahead of Shardul or leave Shardul out and pick a proper batsman if you want added depth (which allows the batsmen to play with more freedom)

[Adamant]

Should not play a single match from now on

 

Chennai was the most favourable place for him and he did **** all

[rangeelaraja]

23 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Should not play a single match from now on

 

Chennai was the most favourable place for him and he did **** all

 

He conceded only 34 runs in 10 overs and took a wicket. How is an eco rate of 3.4 rate bad ?

 

He doesn't leak easy peasy runs like Shardul.

 

 

[deepdynamo]

Against NZ and England and on flat wickets, I want Sky over Shardul.

 

Both these teams are playing 7 genuine batters + an allrounder 

We are playing with 5 batters + 3 allrounders

This may bite us in KO.



 

[jf1gp_1]

9 minutes ago, deepdynamo said:

Against NZ and England and on flat wickets, I want Sky over Shardul.

 

Both these teams are playing 7 genuine batters + an allrounder 

We are playing with 5 batters + 3 allrounders

This may bite us in KO.

Problem with that is you could be out-batted by opposition and sky could be made irrelevant. 

[Adamant]

13 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

He conceded only 34 runs in 10 overs and took a wicket. How is an eco rate of 3.4 rate bad ?

 

He doesn't leak easy peasy runs like Shardul.

 

 

Shardul is a better batsman and also way more clutch.

Let him get an opportunity first before declaring him useless. He hardly got any chance 

[rangeelaraja]

31 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Shardul is a better batsman and also way more clutch.

Let him get an opportunity first before declaring him useless. He hardly got any chance 

Clutch as what - batsman or bowler ? What is the historical basis of calling him clutch ? 
 

My issue with him is - he is an extremely weak bowler on these flat wickets - and middle order hitters from SENA teams can take 8-10 runs from his lollipop bowling without a lot of risk. 
 

If he is there primarily for his batting and not bowling - then might as well play Kishan or SKY. 
 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by rangeelaraja

[Lone Wolf]

I don't know but Ashwin's selection should purely depend on conditions & toss factor...  As when dew comes into play he is useless. 

SENA sides are not all bad players of spin.  Off spin still remains easiest form of spin to deal with in modern day cricket.  Three spinners in India can be overkill at times.  I'd rather play Shami

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I don't know but Ashwin's selection should purely depend on conditions & toss factor...  As when dew comes into play he is useless. 

SENA sides are not all bad players of spin.  Off spin still remains easiest form of spin to deal with in modern day cricket.  Three spinners in India can be overkill at times.  I'd rather play Shami

yes Shami is best option. But TM wants some placebo assurance of batting depth.

 

Ashwin is slightly safer option than Thakur. But Thakur also has fighting attitude.

[Gollum]

Play him in Lucknow and also against NZ, he has a mental hold over Kiwis, plus plenty of LHBs in NZ.