Sundar as no 5 batsman

[Soldier]

3 hours ago, Vijy said:

nope, just go look at how he's batting in ranjis. playing like a proper tailender

Yea I wouldn't judge based of ranji alone..

Can have all the great stats and still fail in international cricket. Will only look at ability and skills. 

[putrevus]

7 hours ago, Soldier said:

Yea I wouldn't judge based of ranji alone..

Can have all the great stats and still fail in international cricket. Will only look at ability and skills. 

That can happen but vice versa  will never happenn.

 

A player with bad stats and  looking crap in domestic cricket suddenly will light up international cricket.That is what people are expecting Sundar to do.

 

 

Edited February 15 by putrevus

[Soldier]

33 minutes ago, putrevus said:

That can happen but vice versa  will never happenn.

 

A player with bad stats and  looking crap in domestic cricket suddenly will light up international cricket.That is people are expecting Sundar to do.

Depends. Marnus and also head had poor stats in shield compared to say marcus Harris.

 

We all know who develope better. 

[Trichromatic]

35 minutes ago, Soldier said:

Depends. Marnus and also head had poor stats in shield compared to say marcus Harris.

 

We all know who develope better. 

 

Never happens in Indian cricket.

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, Soldier said:

Depends. Marnus and also head had poor stats in shield compared to say marcus Harris.

 

We all know who develope better. 

Head had almost 40 avg in FC. marnus had 35+. IIRC, remove Sundar's test stats (a small sample) and his FC batting avg < 30.

 

only people who did great in tests despite such poor FC average were in the ancient days - like Hon. Stanley Jackson

[Soldier]

37 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Head had almost 40 avg in FC. marnus had 35+. IIRC, remove Sundar's test stats (a small sample) and his FC batting avg < 30.

 

only people who did great in tests despite such poor FC average were in the ancient days - like Hon. Stanley Jackson

True but less than their highest averaging guys like Harris and a couple or others. 

 

It'd county that changed both 

 

I would highly recommend county exposure for our youngsters but they only care about IPL. I can't fault them either. It is what it is. Unless we get players that love tests like bumrah, shami and ashwin etc. 

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Soldier said:

True but less than their highest averaging guys like Harris and a couple or others. 

 

It'd county that changed both 

 

I would highly recommend county exposure for our youngsters but they only care about IPL. I can't fault them either. It is what it is. Unless we get players that love tests like bumrah, shami and ashwin etc. 

yes, but look at the gap. harris has around 45 in shield, the others had 35-40. in our case, many batters have FC of >50 (even >60) whereas sundar has < 30 (when tests are excluded)

[Lord]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

That can happen but vice versa  will never happenn.

 

A player with bad stats and  looking crap in domestic cricket suddenly will light up international cricket.That is what people are expecting Sundar to do.

 

 

 

Domestic stats is meaningless for someone who already proved at highest level. Sundar has shown his ability and temperament in Tests he played.

 

Now its matter of staying fit and consistency.

[bowl_out]

Sundar should take Ashwin's spot in overseas tests. For home tests, he needs to wait for his turn until Ashwin is retired or injured. I don't see him playing above No.7 for a start. As he displays consistency with the bat at 7, he might be bumped up to 6

[putrevus]

48 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Domestic stats is meaningless for someone who already proved at highest level. Sundar has shown his ability and temperament in Tests he played.

 

Now its matter of staying fit and consistency.

That is just nonsense.What ability has he shown. That he scored couple of 50 on flat wickets.

 

Gill also had showed temperament in dealing with bigger pressure as opener in setting up that taget in Gabba.How is he doing now.

 

Is Sundar laying eggs  in last 3 years he could not add one domestic hundred.Good starts that too fifties mean nothing.

 

Dhawan scored a brilliant debut 180.. Kambli scored double 100s and still has avg over 50, How did they end up.

 

Sundar will be worse investment than Pandya. 

[Lord]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

That is just nonsense.What ability has he shown. That he scored couple of 50 on flat wickets.

 

Gill also had showed temperament in dealing with bigger pressure as opener in setting up that taget in Gabba.How is he doing now.

 

Is Sundar laying eggs  in last 3 years he could not add one domestic hundred.Good starts that too fifties mean nothing.

 

Dhawan scored a brilliant debut 180.. Kambli scored double 100s and still has avg over 50, How did they end up.

 

Sundar will be worse investment than Pandya. 

 

So just because they failed he will fail too, what is this logic? So many success stories are there too. Warner didn't even play FC before playing Tests.

 

You look at basic technique and his is solid and not flashy like Gill/Dhawan.Infact I don't see a technically better youngster we have.

[putrevus]

Just now, Lord said:

 

So just because they failed he will fail too, what is this logic? So many success stories are there too. Warner didn't even play FC before playing Tests.

 

You look at basic technique and his is solid and not flashy like Gill/Dhawan.Infact I don't see a technically better youngster we have.

What is happening to that best technique in FC .Why is he not scoring runs.Why is he not batting at number 3 or 4 in FC.

 

Steve Smith started as bowler and ended as great batsman, does it mean every failed bowler will become Steve Smith.

 

 

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What is happening to that best technique in FC .Why is he not scoring runs.Why is he not batting at number 3 or 4 in FC.

 

Steve Smith started as bowler and ended as great batsman, does it mean every failed bowler will become Steve Smith.

 

 

Doesn't matter. If basic technique is compact runs will eventually come. By your logic we should be selecting Ricky Bhui or Jagadeesan since they are scoring runs. But everyone knows they are not international class.

 

Batting position is decided by TM. I agree they are using him wrongly.

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

Doesn't matter. If basic technique is compact runs will eventually come. By your logic we should be selecting Ricky Bhui or Jagadeesan since they are scoring runs. But everyone knows they are not international class.

 

Batting position is decided by TM. I agree they are using him wrongly.

It matters a lot. technique is just one part, you need temperament and muscle memory to score 100s too.They don't not come out of the blue.

 

Not everyone who scores FC runs will be good in international cricket.It is 99% guranteed a  guy like Sundar who cannot score score a lick in FC will not do well in international cricket.

 

You are taking one or two occurances as a norm.If he too good at number 6 , any sane TM will promote him.he is hardly scoring runs at number 7 , what they will do for him.

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

What is happening to that best technique in FC .Why is he not scoring runs.Why is he not batting at number 3 or 4 in FC.

 

Steve Smith started as bowler and ended as great batsman, does it mean every failed bowler will become Steve Smith.

 

 

first, let me say that I agree with you.

 

next, I want to clarify this misconception. smith was a huge scorer in the shield from the start. he was a batting AR in a sense. it's just that Oz national team played him as a bowling AR - same mistake they made with cameron white in tests.

 

this actually bolsters your argument. smith was scoring heavily in domestics, whereas sundaram is not. both debuted as bowling ARs (in a sense), but smith was at least proven in domestics with the bat, which sundaram is not

Edited February 16 by Vijy

[Vijy]

9 hours ago, Lord said:

Doesn't matter. If basic technique is compact runs will eventually come. By your logic we should be selecting Ricky Bhui or Jagadeesan since they are scoring runs. But everyone knows they are not international class.

 

Batting position is decided by TM. I agree they are using him wrongly.

jagadeesan is not int'l class. I don't think Bhui has had enough of a run, especially as batter-keeper

[Soldier]

11 hours ago, Vijy said:

yes, but look at the gap. harris has around 45 in shield, the others had 35-40. in our case, many batters have FC of >50 (even >60) whereas sundar has < 30 (when tests are excluded)

That is true. Unless his injuries are very bad, I don't see how he would loe so much skill though. He is very talented and mentally clutch. Hope he recovers form.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, Soldier said:

That is true. Unless his injuries are very bad, I don't see how he would loe so much skill though. He is very talented and mentally clutch. Hope he recovers form.

it's not about injuries alone, but all the accompanying effects: loss of batting rhythm, loss of confidence, loss of some muscle power/flexibility (can affect footwork, etc)

[Soldier]

20 minutes ago, Vijy said:

it's not about injuries alone, but all the accompanying effects: loss of batting rhythm, loss of confidence, loss of some muscle power/flexibility (can affect footwork, etc)

Yea Gill too. I want him dropped to focus on ranji first to build confidence. His technique has glaring holes. 

 

After that dengue he hasn't been the same. Muscle loss etc. 

 

Sundar and Gill are young. They can learn but time is running out.

 

At this point both are struggling. 

 

Fluke 100 that Gill scored should be discounted. He got extremely lucky.

[Vijy]

Just now, Soldier said:

Yea Gill too. I want him dropped to focus on ranji first to build confidence. His technique has glaring holes. 

 

After that dengue he hasn't been the same. Muscle loss etc. 

 

Sundar and Gill are young. They can learn but time is running out.

 

At this point both are struggling. 

 

Fluke 100 that Gill scored should be discounted. He got extremely lucky.

yep, they should both have an unbroken ranji season. they can work on their fitness and flaws, and come back better, in principle