Pant has all the skills leveling with Tendulkar but match awareness of Arshdeep

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

It was a bad shot. But we didn't lose because of it.

We sure did lol Ofcourse. Cummins immediately brought on Boland, Strac and himself. Whole complexion of the game changed. New batsmen were under immense pressure. Nitish Reddy could not even counter attack as it was not worth it. Jadeja bounced out predictably.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

We sure did lol Ofcourse. Cummins immediately brought on Boland, Strac and himself. Whole complexion of the game changed. New batsmen were under immense pressure. Nitish Reddy could not even counter attack as it was not worth it. Jadeja bounced out predictably.

 

We had to bat out 30 overs at max after that with 6 wickets in hand. Very much doable.

 

Counter attack? Reddy had to tuk tuk. Same with others,

 

Infact if anything, Jaiswal's shot was worse.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Lord said:

 

We had to bat out 30 overs at max after that with 6 wickets in hand. Very much doable.

 

Counter attack? Reddy had to tuk tuk. Same with others,

 

Infact if anything, Jaiswal's shot was worse.

 

Not doable when your last 3 are Siraj/Bumrah/Akash. Nitish reddy is not a specialist batsman. Sundar can hang around atone end that's it.  Australia was two half decent balls away from getting into tail.  Australia was hopeless as long as Pant was there.

[lemsip]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

We sure did lol Ofcourse. Cummins immediately brought on Boland, Strac and himself. Whole complexion of the game changed. New batsmen were under immense pressure. Nitish Reddy could not even counter attack as it was not worth it. Jadeja bounced out predictably.

The score was 126-4 after he got out.

A well set Jaiswal and 3 other proper batsmen ( who should really playing ahead of the  keeper in the order) were doomed to fold against a tired attack and a 70 over old ball just because Pant got out ? Apart from anything else, that  doesn't reflect well onthe allegedly long batting order that India geared their whole selection around.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Not doable when your last 3 are Siraj/Bumrah/Akash. Nitish reddy is not a specialist batsman. Sundar can hang around atone end that's it.  Australia was two half decent balls away from getting into tail.  Australia was hopeless as long as Pant was there.

 

Reddy just scored a hundred and was in form. Even Pant is not a specialist batsman.

 

Hanging around was all what was needed from Sundar lol.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, lemsip said:

The score was 126-4 after he got out.

A well set Jaiswal and 3 other proper batsmen ( who should really playing ahead of the  keeper in the order) were doomed to fold against a tired attack and a 70 over old ball just because Pant got out ? Apart from anything else, that  doesn't reflect well onthe allegedly long batting order that India geared their whole selection around.

 

You cannot assume a new bastman will bat exactly  according to their reputation. We have seen in 100s of matches where you leave the job to  others and they bungle up. Because you assume new batsmen would bat exactly the same way you bat. Reddy, Sundar, Jadeja are all rounders. Sundar has played not even 10 tests.  Reddy is  in his first series. Jadeja is not quiet the same Jadeja 2 years back. You can't bank on them that too after witnessing atleast dozen collapses in recent times in similar fashion. India collapsed from 408/3 to 462 against NZ and lost the test. 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Reddy just scored a hundred and was in form. Even Pant is not a specialist batsman.

 

Hanging around was all what was needed from Sundar lol.

 

But someone new to the crease will be tentative atleast at the start. They were nailed at the start. That is the point. Set batsman >>>>> New batsman always.

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

But someone new to the crease will be tentative atleast at the start. They were nailed at the start. That is the point. Set batsman >>>>> New batsman always.

After tea even Pant has to start all over again. 

 

Real reason was the ball started turning and bouncing unexpectedly after tea. 

[lemsip]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

Reddy, Sundar, Jadeja are all rounder

So is Pant and in addition he has been out on the field keeping continuously while Australia have been batting for hours in the heat. The last 2 Australian innings were 120 overs and 83 overs. And he was out batting again at 33/3 after less than a session off. Interesting that the other players get these passes but not the guy who at least showed some fight by facing 100+ balls.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

After tea even Pant has to start all over again. 

 

Real reason was the ball started turning and bouncing unexpectedly after tea. 

 

Head? lol He himself said "let me bowl al ong hop see what happens" Are you seriously saying that ball is something that was going to get him the wicket? Both Pant and Jaiswal were uber comfortable. If these two had batted till mandatory over start which was 13 or 14 overs away they would have shook hands. One more wicket. Australia would have pushed beyond mandatory overs. That is the point. India could not afford even a single wicket at that point

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, lemsip said:

So is Pant and in addition he has been out on the field keeping continuously while Australia have been batting for hours in the heat. The last 2 Australian innings were 120 overs and 83 overs. And he was out batting again at 33/3 after less than a session off. Interesting that the other players get these passes but not the guy who at least showed some fight by facing 100+ balls.

No Pant is a specialist batsman in this set up. Even after team selection there were cries that Indian batting was uber light.  So batsmen had to be more responsible to cover this. Turns out lower order were more responsible than top order.  

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Head? lol He himself said "let me bowl al ong hop see what happens" Are you seriously saying that ball is something that was going to get him the wicket? Both Pant and Jaiswal were uber comfortable. If these two had batted till mandatory over start which was 13 or 14 overs away they would have shook hands. One more wicket. Australia would have pushed beyond mandatory overs. That is the point. India could not afford even a single wicket at that point

 

no already said it was bad shot. But why could no other bat on the same track? They had to bat for far less than what Pant already did and one set batsman was already there.

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

No Pant is a specialist batsman in this set up. Even after team selection there were cries that Indian batting was uber light.  So batsmen had to be more responsible to cover this. Turns out lower order were more responsible than top order.  

he is the keeper first, batter second. if he is a specialist batter, then bring in jurel and let him keep.

 

Or are you saying that Pant should be dropped altogether and Jurel should replace him?

[goose]

pant faced 100 balls than got out. can we have a few more like him please?

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

no already said it was bad shot. But why could no other bat on the same track? They had to bat for far less than what Pant already did and one set batsman was already there.

Apparently only Pant can bat on this track, and only he deserves criticism for throwing away his wicket. Jaiswal's shot that led to his wicket (whether we consider it a nick or not) was also pretty poor in the situation.

[lemsip]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is the point. India could not afford even a single wicket at that point

Rubbish. If anything, India's middle and lower order has consistently batted better than the top throughout the series. They have started their innings in much worse situations and with the ball doing a lot more than it was here and they didn't even need to score any runs here. You are making it out as if this was pitch that was easy when Pant was batting and suddenly turned into an unsurviveable minefield as soon as he got out with 6 wickets remaining. If Jaiswal, Reddy, Jadeja and Sundar can't even survive 25-30 overs on this pitch against the old ball and with just one spinner to face there are more serious problems with the batting even lower down. Obviously Pant played a bad shot but batters do get out but from that situation a batting heavy side with one well set top order batsman still at the crease should have easily been able to cope with that situation. 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, lemsip said:

Rubbish. If anything, India's middle and lower order has consistently batted better than the top throughout the series. They have started their innings in much worse situations and with the ball doing a lot more than it was here and they didn't even need to score any runs here. You are making it out as if this was pitch that was easy when Pant was batting and suddenly turned into an unsurviveable minefield as soon as he got out with 6 wickets remaining. If Jaiswal, Reddy, Jadeja and Sundar can't even survive 25-30 overs on this pitch against the old ball and with just one spinner to face there are more serious problems with the batting even lower down. Obviously Pant played a bad shot but batters do get out but from that situation a batting heavy side with one well set top order batsman still at the crease should have easily been able to cope with that situation. 

People making out Pant to be the sole savior of Indian batting are doing two mistakes: (a) overhyping him in a sense, and (b) downplaying the others.

 

He batted 100 balls, got out to a reckless shot. Doesn't mean that the rest of the lineup had to fold like a bunch of jelly-legged wimps. By the time he got out, ball was soft and everything. If Bolund lasted that long, so too could likes of "great" all-rounders Jaddu, NKR, Sundar, etc. And the other established batter Jaiswal

[lemsip]

11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

No Pant is a specialist batsman in this set up.

His primary role is a keeper. He just happens to be a better batsman than most of the others in the top order but that is more because they are crap. In a properly functioning batting order he will have at least 3 or 4 proper solid batsmen coming in ahead of him not least so he has time to recover after keeping for long hours.

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, lemsip said:

Rubbish. If anything, India's middle and lower order has consistently batted better than the top throughout the series. They have started their innings in much worse situations and with the ball doing a lot more than it was here and they didn't even need to score any runs here. You are making it out as if this was pitch that was easy when Pant was batting and suddenly turned into an unsurviveable minefield as soon as he got out with 6 wickets remaining. If Jaiswal, Reddy, Jadeja and Sundar can't even survive 25-30 overs on this pitch against the old ball and with just one spinner to face there are more serious problems with the batting even lower down. Obviously Pant played a bad shot but batters do get out but from that situation a batting heavy side with one well set top order batsman still at the crease should have easily been able to cope with that situation. 

 

This is 4th innings under pressure you are talking about. You sound like Reddy and SUndar have played like 100 tests?  Jadeja is not quiet the same. You cannot leave it to other btasmen to cover. There is no end to your "contribution". This is not relay race. You have to do everything to survive as much as possible assuming your dismissal can trigger a potential collapse. You don't distribute the survival. Things can happen. WHen batsman is new to the crease he can get a peach.  Extra bounce to Jadeja for instance. You sound liek batsman will be ready to rock and roll from ball 1 with full confidence. That is not how Test match works. Even the seasoned batsman will be nervous let alone someone who is 3 tests old.

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, lemsip said:

His primary role is a keeper. He just happens to be a better batsman than most of the others in the top order but that is more because they are crap. In a properly functioning batting order he will have at least 3 or 4 proper solid batsmen coming in ahead of him not least so he has time to recover after keeping for long hours.

If that is the line of argument is presented then argument to drop Pant will become more solid and bring in someone like Jurel who put a price on his  wicket against barrage of short ball tactics from England and tricky situation.  He also navigated another crucial chase after we lost top order.  Jurel could have also said "i am only a keerp why should score more than 30". He didn't do. He saved two tests and helped win