Gavaskar criticises

[lemsip]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

That shot would have worked if there was no fielder there. They had a fielder specifically for this shot. So he could have avoided.  Hope he takes his chances after looking at the field

There were actually two fielders. It only went to the one at thirdman as he completely mishit the shot which was intended to go over long leg. He clearly wasn't thinking clearly. It was a low percentage shot at the best of times and especially in that situation where he was batting pretty fluently.

Edited December 28, 2024 by lemsip

[Vijy]

22 minutes ago, AKane said:

Yeah I am sure your heroes whoever they are would have batted better against Imran and Sarfraz "and" Pak umpires in Pakistan.

 

Or the 221 against prime Botham and Willis at the Oval in England.... 

 

And this game can be played not just with Gavaskar.....

 

I am sure the first choice bowling attacks like Lillee and company toured India with success.... what now they never even played? Strange! (BTW neither did big bad boy John Snow ever play in India) 

 

Go look at Lillee's average outside Aus/Eng/NZ - it is worse than Agarkar's. Plus never played in India.

 

I am sure the likes of Gary Sobers averaging 83 against worthless Indian attacks while averaging 43 vs Australia is likewise considered too. Was he so great? Maybe not huh?

Sobers played some Ind matches against a fairly good spin attack comprising the first spin trio (Gupte, Mankad, Ahmed). And there's his exploits against Aus in Packer series in addition to Tests. Anyone who saw Sobers (as I did) knows that he was comfortably better than Sunny as a batter.

[AKane]

14 minutes ago, Vijy said:

And there's his exploits against Aus in Packer series in addition to Tests

What are you talking about? Sobers never played Packer cricket did he..... I don't think he did but  just did promotions or press conferences. You probably meant the World team vs Aus when South Africa was banned.... He had one good inning then - that 254. Besides that he had 87 runs in 9 other innings.

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by AKane

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, AKane said:

What are you talking about? Sobers never played Packer cricket did he..... I don't think he did but  just did promotions or press conferences. You probably meant the World team vs Aus when South Africa was banned.... He had one good inning then - that 254. Besides that he had 87 runs in 9 other innings.

 

 

 

yeah, didn't mean Packer, but the ROW (rest of world) series. I agree it was the 254 alone that contributed to the bulk, but those were v. bowling friendly pitches and he had the highest runs from ROW despite being past his peak

[AKane]

7 minutes ago, Vijy said:

yeah, didn't mean Packer, but the ROW (rest of world) series. I agree it was the 254 alone that contributed to the bulk, but those were v. bowling friendly pitches and he had the highest runs from ROW despite being past his peak

Listen man these people like Sunny opening the batting after facing only Indian rubbish for Ranji did not have it easy. Except for people like Salgaonkar who twice broke his hand but then had his bowling action changed, it was not prep for world cricket.

 

In those days there was no helmet or thigh guard - just some socks stuffed in pockets. Indian cricket was a mess organization wise.

 

I think Sunny should have quit Indian team and earned money and experience in Packer WSC like Zaheer Abbas, Javed Miandad, Majid Khan, Asif Iqbal, Imran Khan, Sarfraz Nawaz etc did for World XI there. They gained valuable practice and experience and "money" which Sunny missed out on.

 

Sunny was patriotic but that only gets you ridicule and brickbats as we see here a la "he only played Packer-less attacks".

Edited December 28, 2024 by AKane

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, AKane said:

Listen man these people like Sunny opening the batting after facing only Indian rubbish for Ranji did not have it easy. Except for people like Salgaonkar who twice broke his hand but then had his bowling action changed, it was not prep for world cricket.

 

In those days there was no helmet or thigh guard - just some socks stuffed in pockets. Indian cricket was a mess organization wise.

 

I think Sunny should have quit Indian team and earned money and experience in Packer WSC like Zaheer Abbas, Javed Miandad, Majid Khan, Asif Iqbal, Imran Khan, Sarfraz Nawaz etc did for World XI there. They gained valuable practice and experience and "money" which Sunny missed out on.

 

Sunny was patriotic but that only gets you ridicule and brickbats as we see here a la "he only played Packer-less attacks".

I don't think anyone seriously denies (incl. Gollum or me) that he is one of our all-time top batters along with SRT, Dravid.

[vvvslaxman]

38 minutes ago, lemsip said:

There were actually two fielders. It only went to the one at thirdman as he completely mishit the shot which was intended to go over long leg. He clearly wasn't thinking clearly. It was a low percentage shot at the best of times and especially in that situation where he was batting pretty fluently.

 

G has short straight boundaries. So there is a chance it could have gone over him. but problem was that particular ball was a little too wide to play. Also It caught the top edge.  That shot is absolutely fine if there are no fielders behind the wicket.  He still has to make an educated guess where this shot could go wrong. Having said that this is Pant. I still remember the comment from Warne about Pant. There was one ball in the 2021 series from LYon that vicisiouly spun past his bat. Next ball he waltzed down and smashed it over long on for six with long on fielder in place. He marvelled at the audacity.  I don't want him curb his insincts. That is what make him. But he has to be aware of field placings. He was very youthful. He is maturing now. So he has to be a bit more selective

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

G has short straight boundaries. So there is a chance it could have gone over him. but problem was that particular ball was a little too wide to play. Also It caught the top edge.  That shot is absolutely fine if there are no fielders behind the wicket.  He still has to make an educated guess where this shot could go wrong. Having said that this is Pant. I still remember the comment from Warne about Pant. There was one ball in the 2021 series from LYon that vicisiouly spun past his bat. Next ball he waltzed down and smashed it over long on for six with long on fielder in place. He marvelled at the audacity.  I don't want him curb his insincts. That is what make him. But he has to be aware of field placings. He was very youthful. He is maturing now. So he has to be a bit more selective

 

This is what we like about Pant and this is what Pant is all about. He'll be extremely infuriating when he throws his wkt away but he'll also win you matches on his own. You can't have Pant hammering the opponents and bag him when he gets out cheaply to a nothing shot. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

The problem lies in the so called specialist batters batting ahead of Pant - captain "Brearly" who can't even last 10 balls and :King" Kohli who's a tailender hogging the no. 4 spot. They're the problem, not Pant.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

This is what we like about Pant and this is what Pant is all about. He'll be extremely infuriating when he throws his wkt away but he'll also win you matches on his own. You can't have Pant hammering the opponents and bag him when he gets out cheaply to a nothing shot. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

The problem lies in the so called specialist batters batting ahead of Pant - captain "Brearly" who can't even last 10 balls and :King" Kohli who's a tailender hogging the no. 4 spot. They're the problem, not Pant.

 

I remember Adam Gilchrist long back said in an interview that his runs are a bonus for his team. That is how Australian team management treated him throughout his career. Expecting him to bat with both caution and aggression is not going to work. MS Dhoni for all his tremendous percentage cricket averages only 19 in Australia one of the worst by an Indian

[Vijy]

6 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

This is what we like about Pant and this is what Pant is all about. He'll be extremely infuriating when he throws his wkt away but he'll also win you matches on his own. You can't have Pant hammering the opponents and bag him when he gets out cheaply to a nothing shot. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

The problem lies in the so called specialist batters batting ahead of Pant - captain "Brearly" who can't even last 10 balls and :King" Kohli who's a tailender hogging the no. 4 spot. They're the problem, not Pant.

yeah, you win some, you lose some with him

[AKane]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

G has short straight boundaries. So there is a chance it could have gone over him. but problem was that particular ball was a little too wide to play. Also It caught the top edge.  That shot is absolutely fine if there are no fielders behind the wicket.  He still has to make an educated guess where this shot could go wrong. Having said that this is Pant. I still remember the comment from Warne about Pant. There was one ball in the 2021 series from LYon that vicisiouly spun past his bat. Next ball he waltzed down and smashed it over long on for six with long on fielder in place. He marvelled at the audacity.  I don't want him curb his insincts. That is what make him. But he has to be aware of field placings. He was very youthful. He is maturing now. So he has to be a bit more selective

Criticism against Pant is justified - Pant needs some guardrails/leash or else he will go completely out of control irresponsible.

 

However I think the criticism of Gavaskar that he never speaks against established players like Kohli/Rohit or before SRT/Dravid vs the newcomers is very valid. He never/rarely speaks against the BCCI establishment either.

 

I separate Sunny the player vs the commentator. As a commentator what he says esp nowadays is ...........

 

I

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, AKane said:

Criticism against Pant is justified - Pant needs some guardrails/leash or else he will go completely out of control irresponsible.

 

However I think the criticism of Gavaskar that he never speaks against established players like Kohli/Rohit or before SRT/Dravid vs the newcomers is very valid. He never/rarely speaks against the BCCI establishment either.

 

I separate Sunny the player vs the commentator. As a commentator what he says esp nowadays is ...........

 

I

nowadays is.... utter tripe coming from a BCCI bot.

 

Sunny would be better commentator for neutral matches.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, AKane said:

Criticism against Pant is justified - Pant needs some guardrails/leash or else he will go completely out of control irresponsible.

 

However I think the criticism of Gavaskar that he never speaks against established players like Kohli/Rohit or before SRT/Dravid vs the newcomers is very valid. He never/rarely speaks against the BCCI establishment either.

 

I separate Sunny the player vs the commentator. As a commentator what he says esp nowadays is ...........

 

I

 

Sunny has split personalities.  Let us not forget SUnny was instrumental in dropping Kapil dev and sandip patil from the team after Delhi test loss because they played irresponsible shot

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-1984-85-61797/india-vs-england-2nd-test-63392/full-scorecard

 

 

Ravi bot and Sandip patil were in cruise control and suddenly Patil gifted his wicket at 41. Then immediately 

Kapil hit a six and gifted his wicket . India was suddenly looking at its tail to save the test. ENded up losing it. That was not a good English team. After spooked by L Siva in the first test where he took 12 wickets India lost it surprisingly.

 

https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/589157/i-was-there-tim-robinson-remembers-england-s-test-win-in-delhi-1984-85

 

 

[AKane]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Sunny has split personalities.  Let us not forget SUnny was instrumental in dropping Kapil dev and sandip patil from the team after Delhi test loss because they played irresponsible shot

He was captain of that team and the loss was on him - thing is Kapil of course came back but with Azharuddin's centuries that irresponsibility ended Patil's career.

 

Just as a side note for people who talk about Mumbai lobby, Sandip Patil was from Bombay too but it did not spare him from Gavaskar.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, AKane said:

He was captain of that team and the loss was on him - thing is Kapil of course came back but with Azharuddin's centuries that irresponsibility ended Patil's career.

 

Just as a side note for people who talk about Mumbai lobby, Sandip Patil was from Bombay too but it did not spare him from Gavaskar.

 

BCCI also plays a role here. THey protect these superstars with brand value. Especially Kohli whose brand value is massive.  Second highest is Rohit if i am right. Players like Ashwin, Jadeja even Bumrah don't have that much brand value. Kohli's brand value is almost 20 times more than that Jasprit bumrah. If Boom fails in 3 series they won't midn dropping him either. So criticism about them is controlled by BCCI. Adam Gilchrist's praise about Kohli looked contrived as if  someone gave him a paper to read.

[Vijy]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

BCCI also plays a role here. THey protect these superstars with brand value. Especially Kohli whose brand value is massive.  Second highest is Rohit if i am right. Players like Ashwin, Jadeja even Bumrah don't have that much brand value. Kohli's brand value is almost 20 times more than that Jasprit bumrah. If Boom fails in 3 series they won't midn dropping him either. So criticism about them is controlled by BCCI. Adam Gilchrist's praise about Kohli looked contrived as if  someone gave him a paper to read.

probably Ro-Ko PR team

[AKane]

32 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Kohli's brand value is almost 20 times more than that Jasprit bumrah. If Boom fails in 3 series they won't midn dropping him either. So criticism about them is controlled by BCCI. Adam Gilchrist's praise about Kohli looked contrived as if  someone gave him a paper to read.

This is insane stuff - Only brand value should be on field performance for BCCI. And Bumrah..... I mean no Indian player should match up to him maybe even historically as bad as we have been in pace bowling before the IPL.

 

And Gilchrist puzzles me - he is Australian and why should he care what BCCI thinks? But I readily admit people think differently. Whites, blacks, orientals, latinos and asian Indians all think extremely differently about everything.

[Vijy]

24 minutes ago, AKane said:

This is insane stuff - Only brand value should be on field performance for BCCI. And Bumrah..... I mean no Indian player should match up to him maybe even historically as bad as we have been in pace bowling before the IPL.

 

And Gilchrist puzzles me - he is Australian and why should he care what BCCI thinks? But I readily admit people think differently. Whites, blacks, orientals, latinos and asian Indians all think extremely differently about everything.

Probably gets a fat payday through events overseen by BCCI - commentary in Ind, IPL coaching/mentoring stints, etc. Or even just direct cash payments from them

[vvvslaxman]

Here these Aussie reporters agree with Sunil Gavskar. As i said he can play. No issue. But as these guys say there were 3 fielders for this shot.

 

 

[First class]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

Best player from Ind against Pak bowlers on Pak pitches was ironically Sanju Manju... it is quite hilarious

Yes, Majrekar failed all the plan IK had against India in that 1989 series in Pakistan , with IK, Wasim , Waqar and Qadir , Pakistan had their best bowling attack and were expecting at least 2-0 series win , but Manrekar saved all tests for India, all 4 matches were drawn .