Will Kohli retire as a top 5 Indian batter in tests?

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, New guy said:

Lara and pontings era barely overlapped

 

Also it's easy to be "match winning" when you have other players including your teams openers already bullying the opposition bowlers and demotivating them even before you arrive on the crease, and goats like McGrath and Warner turning your ever knock into "match winning" ones.

 

Having the cushion of having many greatd in your team and having a great team is under rated in how much it contributes to so called match winning knocks 

Lara and Ponting debuted 5 years apart (Dec 1990 vs Dec 1995). I already explained my rationale to "Zen" about why I rate objectively evaluatable technical merits higher for both films and batters. The discussion about match-winners does not interest me as such - it is a more subjective call, and one where there are many unnecessary heated words exchanged.

Edited December 31, 2024 by Vijy

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, New guy said:

Sachin had god like figures in Australia my dude. So did laxman. I don't think batting was ever the problem in Australia 

 

In fact for a period of 10 years (2000 to 2009), India's record in Australia was  played 9, loss 4, win 2, draws 3. It was head and shoulders above any other teams in Australia against that goat team.

This is what I initially said, or at least meant to say. More Ind batters had better records in Eng than in Aus in the 90s and early 00s: look at how Azhar, Ganguly, Dravid did in Eng vs in Aus (VVS is the exception; SRT did well in both places). There is no doubt that Eng was the easier place to bat in our batters. Not sure what exactly you are trying to say here.

 

As for the part in bold: that is correct, but again, I fail to see how it invalidates my point in the above paragraph (in italics). Feels like a rather tangential discussion at this point, where we are discussing different topics.

Edited December 31, 2024 by Vijy

[R!TTER]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

Er there was a man called Jeff Thomson.

 

There were also Andy Roberts, Michael Holding, Dennis Lillee and John Snow.

 

None of them were Akhtar/Lee fast, except Jeff who was speculated to be just as quick although during much shorter span. All the others you named were clocked to be under 140 during World series.

[adi B]

On 12/30/2024 at 11:38 PM, Lord said:

Top 5 bats

 

Gavaskar

Tendulkar

Dravid

Sehwag

VVS/Kohli

Kohli below Laxman comfortably!

Laxman had more impact-full knocks than Kohli and against Tough Sides.

Also Laxman Averaged close to 48 after playing 122 tests I think ,Let Kohli play another 10 matches ,his average will come near too laxman

[R!TTER]

Laxman did well overall but he did fail consistently in SL, right now he'd definitely be above BRat but even then you could say he underperformed in Asia for some odd reason!

Edited December 31, 2024 by R!TTER

[Vijy]

Just now, R!TTER said:

None of them were Akhtar/Lee fast, except Jeff who was speculated to be just as quick although during much shorter span. All the others you named were clocked to be under 140 during World series.

Jeff looked faster to me live than Lee did. Saw him live.

[adi B]

281 in kolkata, 80 odd in mohali with Ishant ,100 in Srl chasing 250 odd on that turner ,96 in Durban, 167 against McGrath and Warne in Sydney,124 in Napier are some of the clutch knocks just from the top of my head which Let alone kohli but any Indian batsmen can even dream off!

 

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, adi B said:

281 in kolkata, 80 odd in mohali with Ishant ,100 in Srl chasing 250 odd on that turner ,96 in Durban, 167 against McGrath and Warne in Sydney,124 in Napier are some of the clutch knocks just from the top of my head which Let alone kohli but any Indian batsmen can even dream off!

 

Don't forget his knock with Dartchuckbhajan vs NZ in India too

Edited December 31, 2024 by Vijy

[adi B]

2 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Don't forget his knock with Dartchuckbhajan vs NZ in India too

Yeah forgot that one, India were 16/6 iirc with 1 full day remaining ,I thought we were done and didn't watch the match the next day ,only checked the scores 

[vvvslaxman]

Kohli had a great peak. Nobody questions that. Great couple of series. But he has failed in crunch moments way too many times. Whatever he achieved in the first half neutralized by his second half performances. If anything Axar, Jadeja, Ashwin were more impactful with bat than Kohli.

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, adi B said:

Yeah forgot that one, India were 16/6 iirc with 1 full day remaining ,I thought we were done and didn't watch the match the next day ,only checked the scores 

Yup amazing save that was.  Kohli has saved us in LOIs a lot. But we cannot confuse that with Test matches. He rarely saved us in Tests.

[Vijy]

7 minutes ago, adi B said:

Yeah forgot that one, India were 16/6 iirc with 1 full day remaining ,I thought we were done and didn't watch the match the next day ,only checked the scores 

yes, it was another top knock from Lax.

[R!TTER]

12 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Jeff looked faster to me live than Lee did. Saw him live.

Except feels doesn't give you actual numbers -

 

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Except feels doesn't give you actual numbers -

 

There were no proper speed gun tests, barring isolated studies, in the thompson era. So looking at speed tests is comparing apples to oranges.

[adi B]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Yup amazing save that was.  Kohli has saved us in LOIs a lot. But we cannot confuse that with Test matches. He rarely saved us in Tests.

Yeah he even had a great opportunity to win us the headingly test in 2018 ,chasing just 191  ,he was batting well with Pandu at the other end but got out when we were 140/5 I think 

[Vijy]

8 minutes ago, adi B said:

Yeah he even had a great opportunity to win us the headingly test in 2018 ,chasing just 191  ,he was batting well with Pandu at the other end but got out when we were 140/5 I think 

he choked then... not the first time it happened in tests

[AKane]

9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

There were no proper speed gun tests, barring isolated studies, in the thompson era. So looking at speed tests is comparing apples to oranges.

I remember Nehra was clocked at 149 odd in 2003 world cup. Nehra was not even in the same zip code as Holding speed wise.

 

 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, AKane said:

I remember Nehra was clocked at 149 odd in 2003 world cup. Nehra was not even in the same zip code as Holding speed wise.

 

 

if we go by the zip and stick only to the WI pacers I have seen, Nehra did not have the avg zip of Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Patterson, and Sylvester Clark.

[First class]

15 years from now 

 

Gavaskar

Tendulkar

Jaiswal 

Dravid 

Sehwag 

[Vijy]

13 minutes ago, First class said:

15 years from now 

 

Gavaskar

Tendulkar

Jaiswal 

Dravid 

Sehwag 

that would be cool. remains to be seen if that happens.