Will Kohli retire as a top 5 Indian batter in tests?

[The Hound]

Who are 100% ahead of him as a test better? I can think of only Gavaskar, Dravid and Tendulkar. 

 

Overall career he's probably ahead of VVS, and other pre 90s greats Vishwanath, Vengsarkar, Merchant etc. 

 

Let's say if Sydney were his last test what will be his overall legacy as a test batter only? 

[saransh]

18 minutes ago, The Hound said:

Who are 100% ahead of him as a test better? I can think of only Gavaskar, Dravid and Tendulkar. 

 

Overall career he's probably ahead of VVS, and other pre 90s greats Vishwanath, Vengsarkar, Merchant etc. 

 

Let's say if Sydney were his last test what will be his overall legacy as a test batter only? 

 

Laxman 281 vs ATG Aussies,96 vs SA ATG attack on a green mamba in durban and half century against Australia in Mohali > Kohli's whole test career @Ultimate_Game

[Lord]

Top 5 bats

 

Gavaskar

Tendulkar

Dravid

Sehwag

VVS/Kohli

[vvvslaxman]

If he plays like this for 2 more years he will finish below Chetan Chauhan

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, saransh said:

 

Laxman 281 vs ATG Aussies,96 vs SA ATG attack on a green mamba in durban and half century against Australia in Mohali > Kohli's whole test career @Ultimate_Game

 

Forget Laxman, even Shardul's innings at Gabba and his knock against Eng in 2021 dragging us to a decent 1st innings total and followed by another half century in the 2nd innings is greater than what the so called "King" has done away from home.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

Top 5 bats

 

Gavaskar

Tendulkar

Dravid

Sehwag

VVS/Kohli

 

I'm sorry but there's no way Kohli is at the same level as VVS anymore. That ship has sailed now.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

I'm sorry but there's no way Kohli is at the same level as VVS anymore. That ship has sailed now.

 

overall career he has a shout. Had an insane 5 years

[Laaloo]

Right now he would be tied for 5th with VVS. If he keeps playing like this and average keeps dropping, he won't make the top 5.

 

I have to include Sehwag in the top 5.

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, Lord said:

 

overall career he has a shout. Had an insane 5 years

 

But the other 10 years dragged it down. VVS has that 281 and innings where he shepherded the tail to win us Tests. What's Kohli's trademark knock? Where did his knock make a difference? Any impact similar to VVS or other top batters? I'm afraid none.

 

Kohli is the biggest downhill skier the game has ever seen. Give him a 300/2 situation like Perth, or a patta, or a match which is lost or where the match's not in balance and he'll fill his boots. But when the match is there to be won or saved and runs are required and your runs could make the difference, he disappears.

 

It's not a coincidence that when you look at any of our top wins, they all came when Kohli wasn't around (2020 BGT, series against Eng at home, series decider against Aus at Dharamshala) or Kohli didn't play a role. There's not a single match you can find where we won thanks to Kohli, especially away from home. Our home dominance was all built on Ashwin and Jadeja, and our overseas wins thanks to Bumrah, Shami and our pacers along with runs from Pant. Kohli hasn't made any difference to our fortunes at all.

 

VVS OTOH has thos eimpactful knocks where he made the difference.

[Bigg Brother]

Impact wise Pujara is above him. Don't look purely at stats. So many soft useless runs and still lingering at average of 47   

[Sean Bradley]

Gavaskar

Tendulkar

Dravid

GR Vishwanath

Sehwag

Kohli

[goose]

he's competing with laxman for 5th spot, tendulkar, gavaskar, dravid, sehwag all in front

[Ultimate_Game]

My top 5:

 

1. Gavaskar

2. Tendulkar

3. Dravid

4. Sehwag

5. VVS

[The Hound]

34 minutes ago, Laaloo said:

 

 

I have to include Sehwag in the top 5.

He was a massive FTB who scored majority of his runs on flat pitches and against average bowling. 

Should be in the Ganguly-Azharuddin tier. 

[The Hound]

Another thing to note is last decade and this decade have produced wickets that are much better for bowling almost everywhere in the world than they were in 2000s and before that. 

[Ultimate_Game]

36 minutes ago, The Hound said:

He was a massive FTB who scored majority of his runs on flat pitches and against average bowling. 

Should be in the Ganguly-Azharuddin tier. 

 

Nope. He was much better for the following reasons...

 

1. He was an opener and changed the way the game is played. He was the one who started Bazball and scaring opponents the way he hammered the bowling while opening.

 

2. He was pretty good away from home as well as his innings at MCG (195) and his debut Test in SA where he scored a 100 showed. Plus the knocks he played against a peak Murali and Mendis when others couldn't even lay bat on the ball were out of this world. So yeah, not a FTB by any means.

[zen]

My AT Test 11:

 

Gavaskar

Sehwag

Pujara*

Tendulkar

Dravid

Pant*
Mankad (as spin bowling AR - has 2 100s in Aus and 1 in Eng) … or VVS or Kohli* if you prefer a specialist batsman … or Pataudi if you prefer a specialist captain 

Kapil (as swing bowling AR) 

Bumrah*
Shami* … or Srinath or Zak per requirement
Chandra

 

* current (or not officially retired) player 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2024 by zen

[Vijy]

Top 5 Indian batters who could perform across a variety of conditions (but not all conditions) are:

 

1. SRT

2. Gavaskar

3. Dravid

4. Merchant

5. Sehwag/VVS

 

I am the only one that will put Merchant there, but that's fine with me - I am prepared to die on this hill, even if sample size is low. My father, who lived to 90-odd, got to see cricketers from early 40s to mid 00s. This is the ranking that we both believed in - BTW, he loved sehwag's aggression (reminded him of mushtaq ali), so he was not a traditionalist. Neither am I. Obviously, when I am comparing across eras, I am not saying that Merchant would have instantaneous success if thrown into modern era directly - we would have to assume access to similar resources.

 

Everything I have read indicates that Merchant was our best technician apart from SRT - could handle spin, seam/swing, and pace/bounce. Lost best years to WW2, played on uncovered pitches, had nearly identical home and away avgs of about 47-48 against a strong team (Eng) and did not stat pad vs weaker teams like NZ, SA, WI at the time. And there's his FC avg of 71 with 13,000 runs; best after Bradman.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Vijy

[First class]

3 hours ago, Lord said:

Top 5 bats

 

Gavaskar

Tendulkar

Dravid

Sehwag

VVS/Kohli

This is almost right , I would definitely put Kohli ahead of VVS and only marginally lower than Sehwag . 

Gavaskar

Tendulkar

Dravid

Sehwag

Kohli 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, First class said:

This is almost right , I would definitely put Kohli ahead of VVS and only marginally lower than Sehwag . 

Gavaskar

Tendulkar

Dravid

Sehwag

Kohli 

Pak rates Kohli higher than Ind do (excluding the RCB fans and online bots). It is an interesting dichotomy - maybe because Kohli reminds them of Zaheer Abbas