Why is India Struggling in Tests: Data, Tactics & Truth | Ashwin × Jarrod Kimber × Himanish Ganjoo

[vvvslaxman]

43 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Yes batter failed badly. but Ind is now a team where both batting and bowling is an issue.

 

An argument is made that allrounders have scored more than pure batters, but in test we must remember that if a team scores 50 runs in total and if all 50 runs are scored by a no. 8/9/10 batter does not make them best batters in the side. Batters needs to score , need proper high scoring batters in top 6 in place of bit and pieces 

 

Yes develop some player but devlop them 1st at n0.6/7 same for allrounders 

 

You have 4 high scoring batters failed there. They are supposed to carry the workload. It is not just the runs. It is the way they looked. Jadeja, Sundar looked more comfortable than them.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

yes sorry meant the 2nd Test.

 

What's wrong with Jadeja getting wickets on Indian pitches? Ojha used to bowl slow and supposedly 'turn the ball' but was ineffective on same damn pitches.

 

Let's see if Harmer's stule works against better players of spin like NZ,SL before making him a legend. If he was that great, he'd been playing ahead of Maharaj

 

Yea.. fans are reacting as if we are struggling only against Harmer.  Have they forgotten the boat load of nobodies and otherwise average spinners we struggled against over the last 10 years?  Kuneman, Todd murphy, Dom bess, Leach, Hartle, Okeefe,  Glen Philips, Santner etc. Not to mention we got totally owned by Mehidy Hasan mirza, Taijul islam at Mirpur. One cannot possibly say  Jadeja is lesser bowler than those nobodies. It is ultimately the batting. Imagine getting out to a rank full toss which is what Kohli did.

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Yea.. fans are reacting as if we are struggling only against Harmer.  Have they forgotten the boat load of nobodies and otherwise average spinners we struggled against over the last 10 years?  Kuneman, Todd murphy, Dom bess, Leach, Hartle, Okeefe,  Glen Philips, Santner etc. Not to mention we got totally owned by Mehidy Hasan mirza, Taijul islam at Mirpur. One cannot possibly say  Jadeja is lesser bowler than those nobodies. It is ultimately the batting. Imagine getting out to a rank full toss which is what Kohli did.

 

The bias is that only slow loopy bowling is good spin bowling. Everyone has their style. 

[R!TTER]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

The bias is that only slow loopy bowling is good spin bowling. Everyone has their style. 

We'e been struggling against spin since 2012 - tbf more since DRS & even more so in LO games, especially the likes of Zampa & Santner! I don't think our domestic coaches/training has kept up with the advances across the globe, especially against spinners. These days good/cunning spinners are just as hard to score against, if not more, than strike bowlers!

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

The bias is that only slow loopy bowling is good spin bowling. Everyone has their style. 

I would attach blame to the batsmen mostly. Insanely poor crease bound technique without using the feet like peak Pujara used to do

[AKane]

26 minutes ago, Lord said:

What's wrong with Jadeja getting wickets on Indian pitches? Ojha used to bowl slow and supposedly 'turn the ball' but was ineffective on same damn pitches.

Nothing is wrong - let every spin bowler bowl like Jadeja and enjoy....

 

26 minutes ago, Lord said:

Let's see if Harmer's stule works against better players of spin like NZ,SL before making him a legend. If he was that great, he'd been playing ahead of Maharaj

Its not just Harmer - before it was Santner, and his 13 wickets and then that Ajaz Patel and his 11 wickets.....

 

BTW don't think that Aus will be rolled over in the 5 test matches here by the Jadeja clones. They have been watching and they will come here better prepared this time. If NZ and SA can do it why not us will be their thinking.

 

Edited December 2, 2025 by AKane

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, AKane said:

Nothing is wrong - let every spin bowler bowl like Jadeja and enjoy....

 

Its not just Harmer - before it was Santner, and his 13 wickets and then that Ajaz Patel and his 11 wickets.....

 

BTW don't think that Aus will be rolled over in the 5 test matches here. They have been watching and they will come here better prepared this time. If NZ and SA can do it why not us will be their thinking.

Both Jadeja and Sundar took 10 wicket haul too in that series. Only difference between the past and that series is Ashwin/Jadeja did not contribute with bat.  Many times India was saved by our lower order. Axar or Jadeja or Ashwin. Remember India was 34/3 against freaking bangladesh ath ome  and 144/6 before Jadeja and Ashwin added 199 runs. 

Edited December 2, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, AKane said:

Nothing is wrong - let every spin bowler bowl like Jadeja and enjoy....

 

Its not just Harmer - before it was Santner, and his 13 wickets and then that Ajaz Patel and his 11 wickets.....

 

BTW don't think that Aus will be rolled over in the 5 test matches here by the Jadeja clones. They have been watching and they will come here better prepared this time. If NZ and SA can do it why not us will be their thinking.

 

 

Santner was flogged badly in SL series prior to that. That's what good batsmen do. Doesn't play regularly at home too. 

 

You have to ask why they do better against India as compared to other good spin batting teams

 

Jadeja has rolled Aus over enough times,even doing decently in Aus. If batting holds up against Lyon/Murphy, our spinners will be fine

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

Santner was flogged badly in SL series prior to that. That's what good batsmen do. Doesn't play regularly at home too. 

 

You have to ask why they do better against India as compared to other good spin batting teams

 

Jadeja has rolled Aus over enough times,even doing decently in Aus. If batting holds up against Lyon/Murphy, our spinners will be fine

 

If our current Indian test team plays a match against a side that has Shams Mulani, Saurabh, Harsh Dube,  Saxena on these square turners they will be folding like a cheap suit. 

[AKane]

33 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Both Jadeja and Sundar took 10 wicket haul too in that series.

So what? We lost both those matches. In our home, on our doctored pitches, their spinners won them the matches. Ours did not.

 

Tendulkar was regularly abused as to he scores centuries but India loses.

 

Same applies now.

 

33 minutes ago, Lord said:

Santner was flogged badly in SL series prior to that. That's what good batsmen do. Doesn't play regularly at home too. 

 

You have to ask why they do better against India as compared to other good spin batting teams

Maybe he learnt from that? Why should he play regularly in his home? They don't make spinning wickets there. Next year the tour is there - they will have their pace bowlers (O'Rourke, Henry, Jamieson et al) . Lets see how our pacers and Jadeja do there vs the Kane Williamson types. Personally I want a pace bowling lineup of Siraj, Akashdeep and Prasidh in NZ.

 

BTW we are touring SL next year too....

 

36 minutes ago, Lord said:

Jadeja has rolled Aus over enough times,even doing decently in Aus. If batting holds up against Lyon/Murphy, our spinners will be fine

Okay then there is no issue at all - Last five matches was all due to batting. Jadeja will be the key etc etc... Dream on.

 

South African batting was hardly Everton Weekes and Gary Sobers and Basil Butcher - they were Bavuma, Stubbs, Muthusamy, Jansen for heavens sakes...our spinners could not handle this.

 

 

[Lord]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

Nothing is wrong - let every spin bowler bowl like Jadeja and enjoy....

 

Yep will make them more successful than following loopers like Ojha and Powar

[Lord]

14 minutes ago, AKane said:

So what? We lost both those matches. In our home, on our doctored pitches, their spinners won them the matches. Ours did not.

 

Tendulkar was regularly abused as to he scores centuries but India loses.

 

Same applies now.

 

No our batsmen lost the series, theirs didn't. They didn't bowl any magic deliveries. It was horrible batting against both pace and spin.

 

Tendulkar was wrongly abused for that. We had no pace bowling at that time to win games. Used to win enough at home due to Kumble etc

14 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

Maybe he learnt from that? Why should he play regularly in his home? They don't make spinning wickets there. Next year the tour is there - they will have their pace bowlers (O'Rourke, Henry, Jamieson et al) . Lets see how our pacers and Jadeja do there vs the Kane Williamson types. Personally I want a pace bowling lineup of Siraj, Akashdeep and Prasidh in NZ.

 

If he was quality spinner, he'd be playing regardless of tracks. 

 

Yes same bowling attack that drew in England. I'd add Harshit too. 

14 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

BTW we are touring SL next year too....

 

Okay then there is no issue at all - Last five matches was all due to batting. Jadeja will be the key etc etc... Dream on.

 

South African batting was hardly Everton Weekes and Gary Sobers and Basil Butcher - they were Bavuma, Stubbs, Muthusamy, Jansen for heavens sakes...our spinners could not handle this.

 

 

No we drew the Eng series due to mammoth scores by batsmen.

 

Same batting has won the WTC without even needing Harmer to play. So I'd say its quite good for modern times and they showed it.

[vvvslaxman]

19 minutes ago, AKane said:

So what? We lost both those matches. In our home, on our doctored pitches, their spinners won them the matches. Ours did not.

 

 

 

 

 

Our batsmen lost the matches. These bowlers are nobodies outside INdia. Most of them are. May be Jadeja should practice bowling well disguised full tosses like Santner bowled to Kohli.

Edited December 2, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[AKane]

13 minutes ago, Lord said:

No we drew the Eng series due to mammoth scores by batsmen

2nd test yes although Akashdeep had the 10fer.

 

But Oval yeah - after Brooks and Root brought them to within 73 runs of a 3-1 series win with 7 wickets in hand, the batsmen did the trick and not Prasidh and Siraj who got the 6 run win plus Akashdeep and the wicket of Brook at 301.

 

Even the English posters on their forums were describing Prasidh and Siraj as "relentless" but you go ahead and credit the batsmen.

[AKane]

28 minutes ago, Lord said:

Same batting has won the WTC without even needing Harmer to play. So I'd say its quite good for modern times and they showed it.

Come on don't mix pace and spin wickets.

 

You can take digs at Harmer in England or Santner in NZ but here they performed - over there pace bowlers are required. 

 

Just FYI in the WTC of the 35 wickets that fell 3 went to spinners.

 

In the 2 tests we won in England -

 

at Lords   18/20 went to pace bowlers with Jadeja and Sundar getting 1 each.

at Oval     19/20 went to pace bowlers with spinners getting 0.

 

Thank you very much.

 

[Lord]

1 minute ago, AKane said:

Come on don't mix pace and spin wickets.

 

You can take digs at Harmer in England or Santner in NZ but here they performed - over there pace bowlers are required. 

 

Just FYI in the WTC of the 35 wickets that fell 3 went to spinners.

 

In the 2 tests we won in England -

 

at Lords   18/20 went to pace bowlers with Jadeja and Sundar getting 1 each.

at Oval     19/20 went to pace bowlers with spinners getting 0.

 

Thank you very much.

 

 

I was talking about SA batting mainly. But that's exactly the point. Indian batsmen here have felled to pace too. 

 

As for Harmer and Santner, they maybe good spinners, but there is nothing much to suggest they are better than Indian spinners. We need bigger sample size against better batsmen

[Lord]

17 minutes ago, AKane said:

2nd test yes although Akashdeep had the 10fer.

 

But Oval yeah - after Brooks and Root brought them to within 73 runs of a 3-1 series win with 7 wickets in hand, the batsmen did the trick and not Prasidh and Siraj who got the 6 run win plus Akashdeep and the wicket of Brook at 301.

 

Even the English posters on their forums were describing Prasidh and Siraj as "relentless" but you go ahead and credit the batsmen.

 

Talking about the whole series

 

Last Test was a spicy pitch and Jaiswal scored a great ton. We were defending 373 in the last innings which gave bowlers enough cushion tp win despite a bad period. That was simply missing this series. Ofcourse bowlers did the job too. Even Akashdeep was good in Test they won. but they had backing of big scores

[Nikhil_cric]

7 hours ago, Lord said:

 

No our batsmen lost the series, theirs didn't. They didn't bowl any magic deliveries. It was horrible batting against both pace and spin.

 

Tendulkar was wrongly abused for that. We had no pace bowling at that time to win games. Used to win enough at home due to Kumble etc

 

If he was quality spinner, he'd be playing regardless of tracks. 

 

Yes same bowling attack that drew in England. I'd add Harshit too. 

No we drew the Eng series due to mammoth scores by batsmen.

 

Same batting has won the WTC without even needing Harmer to play. So I'd say its quite good for modern times and they showed it.

Felled by one pace bowler.   

 

Fairly accurate bowling from a 6'9" bowler. 

 

Accurate bounce from that height is impossible to play if the wicket has even a little bit 

[rollingstoned]

9 hours ago, R!TTER said:

We'e been struggling against spin since 2012 - tbf more since DRS & even more so in LO games, especially the likes of Zampa & Santner! I don't think our domestic coaches/training has kept up with the advances across the globe, especially against spinners. These days good/cunning spinners are just as hard to score against, if not more, than strike bowlers!

Domestic batters don't play with drs so use the pad more and have to go through a learning curve in international cricket. Ashwin has mentioned this before. Even kp had issues with left arm spin was because he was raised to pad the ball and then had to adapt which was when he started sweeping, not coz he sucked. 

Jimmy adams would've been exposed badly in this era lol. 

Edited December 3, 2025 by rollingstoned