Jaiswal dropped from ODI squad for England tour despite Afghanistan ton

[Ultimate_Game]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Why is Samson discarded? He was very good in the RSA ODIs couple of years back, on dicey decks. And he has shown he has the clutchness to deliver in KOs. 

 

I was expecting some promotion for him after he delivered us the T20 trophy. 

 

It's between him and Ishan for the wk role and I prefer Ishan due to Ishan being a left hander. Don't think we can make room for Samson.

[tapandrun]

5 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Jaiswal, Sai, Ishan may or may not show up. But what we know for certain is that Rohit, Kohli and KL haven't shown up in consecutive big matches for the last 3 WCs, and they're 40 years old now. Don't know about you but I would make a change for once coz doing the same thing and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

 

And I recall the narrative which was floated how we'll struggle in WT20 coz there's no Rohit and Kohli and guess what? We didn't miss them and in fact our win was much more dominant without them. I see the same stories being peddled.

 

Yes, now this is better way of putting it. comparing jaiswal/sai to kolhi/Rohit even at this stage was wrong. Its a fair argument that team is aging and newer player should hve got the chances but the decision have been made.

 

Comparing rohit and kolhi even today on any metrics dose not make sense, they are far ahead of any1 they are aging and do you trust aging players ??? This fact can not be ignored.

 

Not sure who set-up the narrative that Ind t20 side will struggle after kolhi and rohit, IPL was a big enough sample to say even the B side at that time be v.good. 

We do not have sample for Odis and Odis is diff from T20s and specially non-home conditions

 

[Gollum]

12 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Sachin played 6 wc till 2011, he never won a single one till 2011. 

For most of Sachin's career, we were up against the greatest ODI team in the history of the sport. No such standout team these days, and Indian cricket has become richer, stronger, IPL has also helped bring in new talent, get players used to big occasions. 

Edited June 22 by Gollum

[Gollum]

12 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

It's between him and Ishan for the wk role and I prefer Ishan due to Ishan being a left hander. Don't think we can make room for Samson.

We must keep multiple options on the table and take a final call close to the WC. That means more game time for Jaiswal, VS, Ishan, Sanju etc. 

[Praveen 06]

27 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Sachin played 6 wc till 2011, he never won a single one till 2011. 

Also choked in 2/2 finals

Edited June 22 by Praveen 06

[Praveen 06]

37 minutes ago, Manucrick said:

Maybe we  win the wc with virat i don't know what will happen in future but i don't trust him that my personal view you can have different view 

Already he won the 3 icc odi trophies. Will see what will  happen

[nevada]

31 minutes ago, Gollum said:

We must keep multiple options on the table and take a final call close to the WC. That means more game time for Jaiswal, VS, Ishan, Sanju etc. 

Sanju has played three back to back clutch innings in the T20 cup. He deserves a chance in ODIs as well. Clutchness >> career stats

[wanted_desi]

People really need to understand Virat/Rohit on bit of spicy pitch against a decent attack, i wouldn't trust them any more than i would Ishan or Jaiswal. I would trust them less even today, let alone in 15 months. 

 

Look at last time what happened to Virat in BGT. Different format, but those reflexes aren't there. 

 

 

[tapandrun]

44 minutes ago, Gollum said:

For most of Sachin's career, we were up against the greatest ODI team in the history of the sport. No such standout team these days, and Indian cricket has become richer, stronger, IPL has also helped bring in new talent, get players used to big occasions. 

 

29 minutes ago, Praveen 06 said:

Also choked in 2/2 finals

 

Post was nt to tell what sachin did or dint , it was to show it does not matter if some1 have won wc or if they didnt win in prime or not.

 

Dhoni won his 1st t20 and 1st Odi wc as captain then did nothing , its a team game a lot changes be it your team or opp or even the conditions.

 

Its clear jaiswal and rohit together can not play in 11, and there is no way Ind will carry Rohit to wc and will drop him in mid tournament. So there is no case where Jaiswal will play.

 

And the idea is if there is less probability of jaiswal playing should Ind consider some other options be it allrounder or a pacer or a mo batter.

 

In current team they had sundar, if they wanted they could have included jaiswal in-place of sundar ,but sundar is playing each format no matter if he performs or not

 

Edited June 22 by tapandrun

[nevada]

3 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Don't think you get it. Problem is not the runs but impact and scoring when it matters. I expect Kohli to fill up his boots in group stages. There're only 4-5 decent teams and in WC format most of your matches will be against mediocre and minnow teams with maybe 2 matches max with decent teams. You expect top 3 to be the highest scorers in LOIs followed by 4 and then 5. That's the nature of the game where top order gets to face majority of the deliveries.

 

The problem starts in the knockouts. That's where our top order has gone into its shell and under-performed. They fill up their boots and score runs for fun before that. And then the knockouts start and they can't stitch 2 games together where they bring their A game. At max they show up for one game (SF) and falter in the finals. I haven't seen Indian top order show up in 2 consecutive knockouts (SF and Final) the way our youngsters did in the recent WT20 where they put back to back 250+ scores!

 

We've seen Aussies show up consistently in knockouts but in ODI WCs stringing together 2 consecutive performances have been beyond them unless the opponent has been B'desh in one of the knockouts (2015 WC QF and 2017 CT SF). That's the reason I want impact players and youngsters in the team. They don't fear failure.

 

I don't care about the top scorers or leaderboards. What has it given us? I only care about the trophy. As an example likes of Axar, Dube, Ishan may not be top run getters but they show up when chips are down. In fact I don't recall when Dube hasn't shown up to pull us out of fire. These players may not have the stats or show up on leaderboard but they had impact. And based on what I've seen over the last 3 ODI WCs I don't think a combo of Rohit, Kohli and KL can get it done and I want to go with Jaiswal/Sooryavanshi, Sai, Ishan. I don't want to do the same thing again and want to go with high impact players. The goal is not to show up on the leaderboards but win tourneys.

Axar is super clutch. Contributes with bat, ball and fielding! Even during DC's faltering campaign, he took some stunning catches. We need more such committed, big match players.  

[cricspirit]

Rohit has to fail constantly or get injured. There is no other hope for Jaiswal for the next 1.5 years.

 

Feel bad for Samson too. He cant get a shot and is not even being discussed

[Ultimate_Game]

43 minutes ago, nevada said:

Axar is super clutch. Contributes with bat, ball and fielding! Even during DC's faltering campaign, he took some stunning catches. We need more such committed, big match players.  

 

There's a reason India started winning when we added Axar and Dube to the team. Ishan has shown the same trait and Sooryavanshi has so far shown up in every big match he has played.

[tapandrun]

Lets just say top 5+1 are fixed :-(rohit, gill, kolhi, iyer, Kl+pandaya) , what can Ind selectors do to make it a wc winning side ??

Lets say Ind is 7-7.5 side how to make it 8.5-9.0 side.

 

7-7.5 meaning they would need luck to go to the SF , 8.5-9.0 is SF will be easy road they will be top2 contenders to win the wc with all bases covered ???

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

Lets just say top 5+1 are fixed :-(rohit, gill, kolhi, iyer, Kl+pandaya) , what can Ind selectors do to make it a wc winning side ??

Lets say Ind is 7-7.5 side how to make it 8.5-9.0 side.

 

7-7.5 meaning they would need luck to go to the SF , 8.5-9.0 is SF will be easy road they will be top2 contenders to win the wc with all bases covered ???

 

With Rohit, Kohli and KL in the top order no matter you do, you're not winning . Anything you do is like putting lipstick on a pig. This core group struggled in their prime and expecting them to win us a WC when they're 40 is idiocy. Plus this lineup is all right-handed and plays a similar style. They'll be very easy for the teams to plan against and will get stuck. At least add a couple of lefties so opponent bowlers have to continually adjust and they can't go with matchups targeting right-handers.

[jf1gp_1]

Rohit Sharma once said he didnt watch 2011 world cup after he didnt make it to the squad. Rohit back then might have cursed Yousuf or Sachin for loss of place. 

Jaiswal if not selected for 2027 WC will have the same feelings and guy he would curse would be Rohit.  

[Ultimate_Game]

24 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Rohit Sharma once said he didnt watch 2011 world cup after he didnt make it to the squad. Rohit back then might have cursed Yousuf or Sachin for loss of place. 

Jaiswal if not selected for 2027 WC will have the same feelings and guy he would curse would be Rohit.  

 

Difference is that 2011 Rohit hadn't done anything to merit a spot and was averaging around 30. But Jaiswal has been our best Test batter, one of the best batters in T20Is before he was dropped and in ODIs is averaging 71 across 6 games with 2 100s. Jaiswal has done nothing wrong at all!

 

Plus Rohit in 2011 wasn't dropped due to a 40 year old fat phuck. Jaiswal is.

[jf1gp_1]

2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Difference is that 2011 Rohit hadn't done anything to merit a spot and was averaging around 30. But Jaiswal has been our best Test batter, one of the best batters in T20Is before he was dropped and in ODIs is averaging 71 across 6 games with 2 100s. Jaiswal has done nothing wrong at all!

 

Plus Rohit in 2011 wasn't dropped due to a 40 year old fat phuck. Jaiswal is.

Forget Rohit i don't see any place for Virat as well. Rohit at least wants to play that he is a liability is another matter. Virat sort of wants to play but his primary focus today is the business side of world. I am sure entire BCCI administration wants us to win the world cup but dont know why not taking the right steps. 

[Ultimate_Game]

5 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Forget Rohit i don't see any place for Virat as well. Rohit at least wants to play that he is a liability is another matter. Virat sort of wants to play but his primary focus today is the business side of world. I am sure entire BCCI administration wants us to win the world cup but dont know why not taking the right steps. 

 

Ideally both 40 year olds shouldn't be there but dropping Rohit is a low hanging fruit. Everyone can see the guy is unfit, fat, can't last WC and reflexes are shot. Plus he averages 19 in SA and that was in his prime.

[New guy]

9 hours ago, Gollum said:

For most of Sachin's career, we were up against the greatest ODI team in the history of the sport. No such standout team these days, and Indian cricket has become richer, stronger, IPL has also helped bring in new talent, get players used to big occasions. 

Plus we had a really really weak bowling attack. 

[New guy]

21 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Forget Rohit i don't see any place for Virat as well. Rohit at least wants to play that he is a liability is another matter. Virat sort of wants to play but his primary focus today is the business side of world. I am sure entire BCCI administration wants us to win the world cup but dont know why not taking the right steps. 

At that age, reflexes can suddenly disappear overnight and you can have a stinker. Kohli is not a technique guy like sachin or dravid who can compensate for lack of reflexes when they are gone.