Why is Dhruv Jurel playing as a pure batsman in our test team?

[lemsip]

35 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It proves only one thing Jurel is a back up keeper.

It doesn't actually "prove" anything as it is a bunch of subjective assertions from Gemini  without any facts or figures being quoted.

The fact is that despite being around the test side for quite a while now, Jurel still does not have role clarity. He is played as a specialist batsman but is batting below the wicketkeeper. In all the innings I have seen him play since his debut, there is a looseness in his technique that is quite apparent and not a great quality in a specialist. Even today he offerred a sitted to slip earlier in his innings and ultimately got out in the same way. I don't really see how he can be sustainably be in the artificial "specialist batsman who bats at number 6" role that Gambhir seems to have made up. As a keeper he is OK and has better glovework than Pant in some situations but overall I think Pant is actually the better keeper as well. Jurel's judgement and body language around DRS calls etc is particularly passive and unconvincing. So if he is a core part of batting, he either neededs to be played in the top order ( where there is no slot ) or sits out. 

Edited August 16 by lemsip

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, lemsip said:

It doesn't actually "prove" anything as it is a bunch of subjective assertions from Gemini  without any facts or figures being quoted.

The fact is that despite being around the test side for quite a while now, Jurel still does not have role clarity. He is played as a specialist batsman but is batting below the wicketkeeper. In all the innings I have seen him play since his debut, there is a looseness in his technique that is quite apparent and not a great quality in a specialist. Even today he offerred a sitted to slip earlier in his innings and ultimately got out in the same way. I don't really see how he can be sustainably be in the artificial "specialist batsman who bats at number 6" that Gambhir seems to have made up. As a keeper he is OK and has better glovework than Pant in some situations but overall I think Pant is actually the better keeper as well. Jurel's judgement and body language around DRS calls etc is particularly passive and unconvincing. So if he is a core part of batting, he either neededs to be played in the top order ( where there is no slot ) or sits out. 

If Pant is healthy no one is replacing him.Pant is a once in a generation player who might end up as best test WK batsman ever in  history.

 

If Pant is unavailable Jurel will be the option.  Saha was a better keeper than Dhoni but he never replaced him .

[Lone Wolf]

53 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

The thing Jurel is not so much better than others. Jurel had a good debut series at home against substandard English spinners. Then against Windies had a good outing. These A games have to be taken with a pinch of salt as the intensity levels are not going to be the same.

India A games in Australia were played on extremely spicy decks.. he showed his quality there and then when none other batters could cope up with the conditions.

Most of these Ranji batters have zero backfoot game and are all front foot plonkers coz of low bounce trashy surfaces they play on... Neither can play the ball late when needed

Jurel has all those qualities 

Edited August 16 by Lone Wolf

[lemsip]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If Pant is healthy no one is replacing him.

I wouldn't be so sure. If Gambhir is at the helm, he can easily be moved on as it is well known he is not a great fan of Pant back from Delhi Ranji days.

Edited August 16 by lemsip

[singhvivek141]

44 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Baz, ABDV, Buttler are superior batsmen in their respective format. Jurel is not even close to their skill level.

 

Both Baz and ABDV improved with time.

ABDV avg was is mid 30s till his 28th Test if my memory serves right.

[singhvivek141]

Dup

Edited August 16 by singhvivek141

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, lemsip said:

I wouldn't be so sure. If Gambhir is at the helm, he can easily be moved on as it is well known he is not a great fan of Pant back from Delhi Ranji days.

You are right, after all they managed to kick lot of people based on nothing but their whim and idiotic thinking.

[vvvslaxman]

18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

This mindset, that a person with keeping ability cannot be a good specialist batsman, existed till 1990 or thereabouts. It's an old fashioned idea. Don't know why it is being raised now. 

 

There have been so many cases where a keeper, who has played significant number of games as a specialist batsman, has done really well as a pure batsman. Often better too.

 

BATTING AVERAGES IN TESTS ....

 

ALEC STEWART

 

As Batsman .. 46.7 from 51 tests

As Keeper .. 34.9 from 82 tests

 

BAZ McCULLUM

 

As Batsman .. 42.9 from 49 tests

As Keeper .. 34.2 from 52 tests

 

KUMAR SANGAKKARA

 

As Batsman .. 66.8 from 86 tests

As Keeper .. 40.5 from 48 tests

 

AB deVILLIERS

 

As Batsman .. 48.9 from 90 tests

As Keeper .. 57.4 from 24 tests

 

 

Jurel may end up being a good test batsman or he may fail. But holding his keeping ability against him does not have any data based logic. It is just an old fashioned perception. 

 

I think he is being judged purely based on batting abiltity. Within his UP team over the last few seasons it is Rinku that made all the clutch runs. Jurel bashed Nagaland scoring 249 runs.   Nitish Reddy also played some crucial runs in Australia on juicy surfaces. He was the second highest run getter for India after jaiswal. He failed and promptly kicked out afterwards despite him being a bowler. 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Both Baz and ABDV improved with time.

ABDV avg was is mid 30s till his 28th Test if my memory serves right.

 

ABDV was always a freakish talent so was Baz.  Buttler in ODIs took his time to get settled.But he played as a keeper.I won't put Jurel in that category. My logic is , is he even the best batsman in UP?

[singhvivek141]

52 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It proves only one thing Jurel is a back up keeper.

 

Understand the data Gemini is pulling from.

It has a decent sample size for Pant, Kishan, Samson, KL...but not for Jurel.

 

Anyway, dont want to beat around the bush. I think Jurel can come around as a top tier Test batsman. He isnt a mentally midget and when we can give so many chances for mediocre batters like Rahane & KL, why dont to Jurel who seems to have more potential. 

 

Just because he is a very good keeper is his additional skill, shouldn't be held against him.

Edited August 16 by singhvivek141

[vvvslaxman]

What will they do if Sai sudarshan comes back? Who will they drop. He was also part of the set up? They can't drop DDP now.

[singhvivek141]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

ABDV was always a freakish talent so was Baz.  Buttler in ODIs took his time to get settled.But he played as a keeper.I won't put Jurel in that category. My logic is , is he even the best batsman in UP?

 

Yeah, he is better batsman in UP cricket than Aryan Juyal or Madhav Kaushik or Akshadeep Nath or Samarth Singh or Karan Sharma.

 

Rinku Singh is the only one who has better numbers than him. And frankly, I wont mind that, Rinku deserves a place in Tests as well. But Jurel has better hand eye coordination, technique and he is good on his both feet.

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

Lol. When everybody flopped vs SA, nobody gets the blame.

 

But when everybody flopped vs NZ, and Sarfaraz got the only hundred by an Indian batsman in the whole Test series, still he got blamed for that failure and dropped.

 

Jai ho logic 

If you actually watched that game you will see pitch had flattened out by then coz there was no wear and tear on the surface... Coz of that loss and failure of Indian spinners to outbowl Kiwis, they resorted to Rank turners where Sarfaraz failed...

After that India A went to Australia and Sarfaraz was brutally exposed on those spicy decks... While Jurel scored runs and was the only one in fact... Broke the door down and played the Perth test.  His only 1 inns appearance in Australia as seniors returned and he was back on the bench..

Sarfaraz never made it out after that.  Jurel once again heavily scored for India A in England and outscored Sarfaraz once again.

 

Then his clutch cameo in Oval test.

 

Best batter along with Sai Su in Recent India A tour of SL as well.

 

So he is there on merit unlike Sarfaraz who had a middling domestic season where every tom dick and Harry made merry on trash low bounce Ranji surfaces 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Yeah, he is better batsman in UP cricket than Aryan Juyal or Madhav Kaushik or Akshadeep Nath or Samarth Singh or Karan Sharma.

 

Rinku Singh is the only one who has better numbers than him. And frankly, I wont mind that, Rinku deserves a place in Tests as well. But Jurel has better hand eye coordination, technique and he is good on his both feet.

 

That is just UP. If you search across iNdia there are much batsmen with higher potential.  Infact Tilak varma was rated above him from the 2020 U19 batch. He gets found out around off stump channel both against spin and pace. He wafts at the ball. If you give chance to any specialist batsman this many times odds they will also start doing well at some point. 

[Lone Wolf]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

That is just UP. If you search across iNdia there are much batsmen with higher potential.  Infact Tilak varma was rated above him from the 2020 U19 batch. He gets found out around off stump channel both against spin and pace. He wafts at the ball. If you give chance to any specialist batsman this many times odds they will also start doing well at some point. 

Tilak is an excellent hitter of pace... But his spin playing game is on lower spectrum than Jurel.

 

Jurel was I guess VC of that Jaiswal U19 batch.. so he clearly was earmarked to be the guy who had something in him.

He is always leading India A sides as well.

[singhvivek141]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

That is just UP. If you search across iNdia there are much batsmen with higher potential.  Infact Tilak varma was rated above him from the 2020 U19 batch. He gets found out around off stump channel both against spin and pace. He wafts at the ball. If you give chance to any specialist batsman this many times odds they will also start doing well at some point. 

 

Rating high in U19 doesnt mean everything bro. Piyush Chawla was highly rated...turned out to be a failure.

Jaydev Unadkut was highly rated...ended as a joke. Vijay Zol, Unmukt Chand...so many names ended up being nowhere despite making waves in the U19.

 

Game refinement in the U19 days can vary courtesy of the infrastructural exposure those kids have gone through in their early days. How they adjust when the playing field is levelled actually builds up a cricketer. 

 

There is no comparison of a cricketing infra in Mumbai vs Hyd vs UP Cricket. Yet Jurel has outperformed Sarfaraz in A tours.

[BacktoCricaddict]

35 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Rinku Singh is the only one who has better numbers than him. And frankly, I wont mind that, Rinku deserves a place in Tests as well.

Sadly Rinku has been typecast as a T20 finisher and nothing more 

[vvvslaxman]

34 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

Rating high in U19 doesnt mean everything bro. Piyush Chawla was highly rated...turned out to be a failure.

Jaydev Unadkut was highly rated...ended as a joke. Vijay Zol, Unmukt Chand...so many names ended up being nowhere despite making waves in the U19.

 

Game refinement in the U19 days can vary courtesy of the infrastructural exposure those kids have gone through in their early days. How they adjust when the playing field is levelled actually builds up a cricketer. 

 

There is no comparison of a cricketing infra in Mumbai vs Hyd vs UP Cricket. Yet Jurel has outperformed Sarfaraz in A tours.

Why is Jurel rated? Not sure what he has done to be rated?

[vvvslaxman]

21 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Sadly Rinku has been typecast as a T20 finisher and nothing more 

There is a systemic problem. BCCI in order to reduce annual contract they try to typecast players. For one format you just have to give less money. Grade C is format-specific.

 

The team selection is going to be largely from this. Sarfraz khan was dropped from central contract list because he did not feature in enough international matches in the previous cycle. But if you look at the list many are like that. SKY plays just one format. Still in Grade B. But Sarfraz is totally excluded.

 

Grade A
Shubman Gill, Jasprit Bumrah, Ravindra Jadeja
Grade B
Washington Sundar, Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli, KL Rahul, Mohammed Siraj, Hardik Pandya, Rishabh Pant, Kuldeep Yadav, Yashasvi Jaiswal, Suryakumar Yadav, Shreyas Iyer
Grade C
Axar Patel, Tilak Varma, Rinku Singh, Shivam Dube, Sanju Samson, Arshdeep Singh, Prasidh Krishna, Akash Deep, Dhruv Jurel, Harshit Rana, Varun Chakaravarthy, Nitish Kumar Reddy, Abhishek Sharma, Sai Sudharsan, Ravi Bishnoi, Ruturaj Gaikwad
 

[BacktoCricaddict]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

There is a systemic problem. BCCI in order to reduce annual contract they try to typecast players. For one format you just have to give less money. Grade C is format-specific.

 

The team selection is going to be largely from this. Sarfraz khan was dropped from central contract list because he did not feature in enough international matches in the previous cycle. But if you look at the list many are like that. SKY plays just one format. Still in Grade B. But Sarfraz is totally excluded.

 

Grade A
Shubman Gill, Jasprit Bumrah, Ravindra Jadeja
Grade B
Washington Sundar, Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli, KL Rahul, Mohammed Siraj, Hardik Pandya, Rishabh Pant, Kuldeep Yadav, Yashasvi Jaiswal, Suryakumar Yadav, Shreyas Iyer
Grade C
Axar Patel, Tilak Varma, Rinku Singh, Shivam Dube, Sanju Samson, Arshdeep Singh, Prasidh Krishna, Akash Deep, Dhruv Jurel, Harshit Rana, Varun Chakaravarthy, Nitish Kumar Reddy, Abhishek Sharma, Sai Sudharsan, Ravi Bishnoi, Ruturaj Gaikwad
 

Rutu ... ?? Enough said