Is bumrah the goat?

[New guy]

9 hours ago, putrevus said:

No he is not, he is not even close. He is GOAT t20 bowler.

 

But Waqar is close righr?

[Malcolm Merlyn]

1 hour ago, New guy said:

But Waqar is close righr?

Old guy uski firikki le raha hai 

 

waqar the bottle caps goat 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, New guy said:

But Waqar is close righr?

Why are you burning?

[goose]

rule of thumb. if you have to ask, the answer is no

[Manucrick]

Yeah there are no better three format bowlers than Bumrah Him and Starc come close though

[goose]

14 minutes ago, Manucrick said:

Yeah there are no better three format bowlers than Bumrah Him and Starc come close though

 

inserting 'three format' is code for 'no'

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, goose said:

rule of thumb. if you have to ask, the answer is no

Why?

Margin may be thin,

but he could still win. 

 

Arre wah .. I made a rhyme!

[putrevus]

52 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Why?

Margin may be thin,

but he could still win. 

 

Arre wah .. I made a rhyme!

McGrath has  just 563 wickets at 21 not to forget him in Odis. 
 

Mcgrath has avg of 15 in t20s . If geniuses here can extrapolate 200 plus wickets of Bumrah then McGrath would have been greater in t20s too.

 

 

 

Edited August 14 by putrevus

[Sandz]

2 hours ago, goose said:

rule of thumb. if you have to ask, the answer is no

Right, we should down the forum then. What logic. 

[goose]

14 minutes ago, Sandz said:

Right, we should down the forum then. What logic. 

 

ok that was harsh. asking is fine. what i meant to say is when you find yourself saying 'yes if xyz happens' then the answer is no

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

McGrath has  just 563 wickets at 21 not to forget him in Odis. 
 

Mcgrath has avg of 15 in t20s . If geniuses here can extrapolate 200 plus wickets of Bumrah then McGrath would have been greater in t20s too.

 

 

 

 

Bumrah strikes at 43. McGrath at 52. Got to factor that, as well in tests.

 

At a similar stage in their careers (~250 wickets), McGrath's average was a good 2 runs higher and SR was a good 10 balls higher - lower impact bowler.

 

Plus, McGrath's supporting cast was superior - makes a huge difference for a pacer's success. 

 

Given all of that - I would put Bumrah higher. 

 

That said, if I were picking an all-time World XI, I would put Malcolm Marshall as my first pacer pick, followed by Bumrah and grudgingly Ozzie potty-mouth McGrath.

 

[express bowling]

5 hours ago, goose said:

 

inserting 'three format' is code for 'no'

 

It's very difficult to pinpoint anyone as the GOAT. It's very subjective and depends a lot on the decision maker's bias.

 

But there will definitely be different GOAT candidates for any one format and all formats. Because many old timers either did not play T20Is or hardly played them  ( Like McGrath played only 2 games )

 

 

Edited August 14 by express bowling

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

Bumrah strikes at 43. McGrath at 52. Got to factor that, as well in tests.

 

At a similar stage in their careers (~250 wickets), McGrath's average was a good 2 runs higher and SR was a good 10 balls higher - lower impact bowler.

 

Plus, McGrath's supporting cast was superior - makes a huge difference for a pacer's success. 

 

 

Plus McGrath's home conditions were the pacy and bouncy Aussie pitches, where he played 66 tests / 53% of his tests.

 

Asian pacers get to bowl much fewer overs in their home tests and in much less helpful conditions. 

 

And McGrath played in an era when top pacers were not viciously attacked by batters with much superior quality bats.

 

Everything is stacked against bowlers in Bumrah's era.

 

 

Edited August 14 by express bowling

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

Bumrah strikes at 43. McGrath at 52. Got to factor that, as well in tests.

 

At a similar stage in their careers (~250 wickets), McGrath's average was a good 2 runs higher and SR was a good 10 balls higher - lower impact bowler.

 

Plus, McGrath's supporting cast was superior - makes a huge difference for a pacer's success. 

 

Given all of that - I would put Bumrah higher. 

 

That said, if I were picking an all-time World XI, I would put Malcolm Marshall as my first pacer pick, followed by Bumrah and grudgingly Ozzie potty-mouth McGrath.

 

When he keeps up that SR reach 350 plus we will revisit his GOAT status.563 is very very big number. 
 

 

Bumrah is playing in extremely bowler friendly era .

 

Marshall was not the same  force in odis , just like Steyn who was not the same in Odis.
 

 

IMO he  has long way to go , he has been non factor in Odis. Not to forget him coming up short in so many important test matches. Can you believe our genius went wicketless in ICC test finals on a dream pitch.

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

When he keeps up that SR reach 350 plus

McG didn't have that SR even at 250, so that's kinda moot.

 

As for bowler-friendly, LOIs were much more bowler friendly in the 1990s and 2000s. 

Edited August 14 by BacktoCricaddict

[express bowling]

57 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

As for bowler-friendly, LOIs were much more bowler friendly in the 1990s and 2000s. 

 

Even test matches.  Current day red balls move much less ( except the Dukes used in England and the WI ).

 

And current day bat qualities are far superior. With batters using lot better hitting techniques too. 

 

 

Edited August 14 by express bowling

[putrevus]

27 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

McG didn't have that SR even at 250, so that's kinda moot.

 

As for bowler-friendly, LOIs were much more bowler friendly in the 1990s and 2000s. 

I agree with reverse swing bowling was more bowler friendly in LOIs.

 

 SR is only half the battle. Guy like McGrath never wowed with dazzling bowling, accuracy and relentless bowling  working on technique of batsmen was his forte.

 

Let us see how long Bumrah can keep up his current SR.

[Sgattick10]

Yes. 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

When he keeps up that SR reach 350 plus we will revisit his GOAT status.563 is very very big number. 
 

 

Bumrah is playing in extremely bowler friendly era .

 

Marshall was not the same  force in odis , just like Steyn who was not the same in Odis.
 

 

IMO he  has long way to go , he has been non factor in Odis. Not to forget him coming up short in so many important test matches. Can you believe our genius went wicketless in ICC test finals on a dream pitch.

 

Care to explain what happened to Kohli in this game ? It was a semifinal.

Smith scored a century on a flat batting track ?

 

Result

Australia vs India, 2nd Semi-Final

ICC Cricket World Cup

 

AUS 328/7

IND 233

Australia won by 95 runs

 

Click here to view more @espncricinfo : https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-cricket-world-cup-2014-15-509587/australia-vs-india-2nd-semi-final-656493/live-cricket-score

 

 

Or in this game...where he wasted dream start by openers by scoring a single digit

 

Result

New Zealand vs India, Final

ICC Champions Trophy

 

NZ 251/7

IND 254/6

India won by 4 wickets (with 6 balls remaining)

 

Click here to view more @espncricinfo : https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-champions-trophy-2024-25-1459031/india-vs-new-zealand-final-1466428/live-cricket-score

 

Oh...and I forgot. We played another WTC final without Bumrah. Smith again scored a century on a batting track..I wonder what did Kohli did there. He too must have atleast scored a 50..

 

Result
Australia vs India, Final
ICC World Test Championship

AUS 469 & 270/8d
IND 296 & 234
Australia won by 209 runs

Click here to view more @espncricinfo : https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-world-test-championship-2021-2023-1268315/australia-vs-india-final-1358412/live-cricket-score

 

 

[singhvivek141]

I find is amusing that folks here consider Waqar as a GOAT who avg 40 in Australia and 70 in India..who $hit in his pants twice against India in a WC and leaked runs like a baby with an overflowing diaper.

 

But yeah, its Bumrah who has to give agnipariksha for everything.