Underestimate the English test team at your own peril

[The Outsider]

Yes, we've defeated the Aussies 2-0 and thrashed the English ODI side 5-0, but the English test team is an entirely different proposition. They are a very good test team and in Indian conditions they are not too far off as opponents than Australia were because they have a spinner who can keep the game under control and also do damage in the last innings. Not only that, their fast bowlers Flintoff, Sidebottom, and Anderson can all swing the ball - essential in India and something which was missing from the Aussie attack with Flintoff and Anderson pretty good at reverse swing as well. Hoggard would have been a very welcome addition to the attack but luckily he is not in the frame. Flintoff and Anderson had delivered some very good spells during the last test series in India and with Monty not someone who can be consistently hit out of the attack will seriously test our batsmen. Dravid's poor form and Ganguly's retirement have left our batting vulnerable. Time and again over the last couple of years, Ganguly has dug us out of a whole and produced some very crucial innings from the number 5 and 6 slot. Yuvraj is a huge question mark for his spot. Given Dhoni's lack of confidence in Badrinath it's pretty much a given that Yuvraj will take the field. Moreover, in a two test series, just one slip by India is going to mean we will not be able to win the series....one batting collapse.....two-three dropped catches.....an innings of brilliance might ensure England will not be able to lose the series and the dodgy weather in Madras is not helping the cause either.

[Show_stopper]

Well tbh..i doubt Anderson will do much in these conditions. Its one thing to swing it in England and completely different doing it here. Infact, if you've noticed there was very little conventional swing even from the Indian bowling side in Ind-Aus series. It was mostly reverse swing(Zak) and seam movement(Ishant).Another factor is the SG ball being used which is ofcourse not too different from the dukes balls they use in Eng(certainly the difference between kookaburra and SG is greater than dukes and SG). Overall, i can see Eng doing a better job than Aus at challenging us.But beat us?? Unlikely i would say..unless we make a total botch of it.

[coffee_rules]

Toss win was vital in Aus series. 3 wins, we dominated the tests. 1 loss, we played catch up in Bangalore. The same will be true with Eng as well. In the last Drawid series, he lost the toss once in Nagpur, we drew with diffucult. We played well in Mohali to win. We won the toss in Mumbai and bowled first!!! Very bad decision by Drawid. We lost the test miserably.

[fineleg]

Yes, we've defeated the Aussies 2-0 and thrashed the English ODI side 5-0, but the English test team is an entirely different proposition. They are a very good test team and in Indian conditions they are not too far off as opponents than Australia were because they have a spinner who can keep the game under control and also do damage in the last innings. Not only that, their fast bowlers Flintoff, Sidebottom, and Anderson can all swing the ball - essential in India and something which was missing from the Aussie attack with Flintoff and Anderson pretty good at reverse swing as well. Hoggard would have been a very welcome addition to the attack but luckily he is not in the frame. Flintoff and Anderson had delivered some very good spells during the last test series in India and with Monty not someone who can be consistently hit out of the attack will seriously test our batsmen. Dravid's poor form and Ganguly's retirement have left our batting vulnerable. Time and again over the last couple of years, Ganguly has dug us out of a whole and produced some very crucial innings from the number 5 and 6 slot. Yuvraj is a huge question mark for his spot. Given Dhoni's lack of confidence in Badrinath it's pretty much a given that Yuvraj will take the field. Moreover, in a two test series, just one slip by India is going to mean we will not be able to win the series....one batting collapse.....two-three dropped catches.....an innings of brilliance might ensure England will not be able to lose the series and the dodgy weather in Madras is not helping the cause either.

Good post, shwetabh. I share the same sentiment, and infact wanted to post something very similar to your post. Ofcourse, given that fineleg would have posted it, the same people who react differently in this shwetabh thread, may have reacted saying "Eng playing well in India" - joke. The truth is given Dravid's form and Yuvi who is a BIG ? in Tests - a flutter in Sehwag or SRT/GG getting out quickly can be trouble. And Eng does have a better bowling attack than Aus. Two test series will always be tricky. Ponty Manesar (sic) will ofcourse also be an important factor.

[MundaPakistani]

ENG is certainly a better team than AUS but that might not be enough to win OR draw the series.

[The Outsider]

ENG is certainly a better team than AUS but that might not be enough to win OR draw the series.

In Indian condiitons...yes but in Australia or even in England, Australia would always start out as favorites because of their much superior batting line up. However, in Indian conditions the fact that they have an actual spinner and bowlers who can reverse swing the ball makes their attack a more challenging proposition than Australia's.

[Kumar]

who the hell would underestimate the english, they got a great side? They are not fraking bangldesh

[MundaPakistani]

In Indian condiitons...yes but in Australia or even in England' date= Australia would always start out as favorites because of their much superior batting line up. However, in Indian conditions the fact that they have an actual spinner and bowlers who can reverse swing the ball makes their attack a more challenging proposition than Australia's.

Yes thats what i meant.

[fineleg]

who the hell would underestimate the english, they got a great side? They are not fraking bangldesh

You havent been here long enough. Lots of folks here will claim 100% 2-0 win to India. Hence the relevance of this thread.

[Kumar]

You havent been here long enough. Lots of folks here will claim 100% 2-0 win to India. Hence the relevance of this thread.

ah..kk:two_thumbs_up:

[satishg]

You havent been here long enough. Lots of folks here will claim 100% 2-0 win to India. Hence the relevance of this thread.

but u have been here long enough and that 2-0 optimism from you can never happen i suppose :D

[satishg]

on the post well yes England is a much better side than the Australians rite now because of their potent bowling attack..I think a sane cricket fan wud definitely know that this series is not gonna be a walk in the park for us..but still Englands battings leaves a lot to be desired..they still cant play spin that well and infact wen u compare Englands batting to Oz the aussies are miles ahead..so i am pretty confident that we wud win the series 1-0 and if we play with a lot of intensity, we have a good chance of beating them 2-0..hopefully Mumbai 2005 wudn happen again..thats the only way poms can beat us..we threw the match in 2 sessions then..

[punjabi_khota]

You havent been here long enough. Lots of folks here will claim 100% 2-0 win to India. Hence the relevance of this thread.

Oh you mean like the folks who claimed we will thrash Australia ? humm...

[Cricketics]

lol there is a player Amjad Khan in eng's line up i won't be surprised if aajtak or any other hindi news channel in tv gives us heading like this "Veeru(sehwag) ne Gabbar singh(amjad khan) ko khoob dhoya"

[The Outsider]

lol there is a player Amjad Khan in eng's line up i won't be surprised if aajtak or any other hindi news channel in tv gives us heading like this "Veeru(sehwag) ne Gabbar singh(amjad khan) ko khoob dhoya"

:hysterical::hysterical: As funny as it is....it won't be surprising.

[Ram]

Amit Mishra is the key. The English are world renowned for their inadequacies against quality leg-spin.

[Dinx - the Jinx]

shwetabh is talking only about +points from english side. Lets look at some of the -ves that the English carry and then come to a conclusion on who is the clear favorite for the coming series. Odds against England 1. Two of their main bowlers have been forced to tour (atleast thats what I believe) and will have no motivation at all to play this series. If a tyre blasts anywhere near Chepauk, they will be ready to fly back. Thats the state of their minds and you cant expect 100% from these blokes 2. They have absolutely no match practice. Even their net sessions are not going to be very effective due to the security cover and the weather in Chennai. They are going to be very rusty and doubtful in their stroke play, as the ball doesnt come on to the bat that nicely. And the seamers are going to have some trouble getting into the rhythm as they dont know exactly how the pitch is going to behave and where to bowl to. 3. Their middle order, except for KP, is very vulnerable as exposed by the Saffies during the English summer. 4. Their batting against spin was very poor in the ODIs and I dont think the even test team can shrugg off the spin threat from Bajji, Mishra. They haven't seen Mishra yet. So they are going to have it difficult facing him. Or even Sehwag and Yuvi can do enough damage. 5. In Dhoni we have a better captain than we had in Dravid few years back. Even if we lose the toss and hand the 1st innings advantage to England, Dhoni will have enough tricks up his sleeve to get us back into the test match, whereas KP look lost most of the time when his team doesnt back his plans, as was seen in the ODIs. 6. I expect a few top players in the England team to fake injuries, stomach bug etc. 7. England may have success in a few sessions like a bunch of Indian wickets falling together or England scoring 100+ runs in a session without losing a wicket. But I belive those sessions will be far and few and India will win more sessions than England and will eventually win the test match. 8. England haven't faced Ishant Sharma yet in tests and they are going to have a tough time dancing to his tunes a la PWnting. 9. Agreed that Monty may have some success, but I dont think he'll be lethal enough to win the match signle handedly. Last time around, he was a rookie and we dint respect him much and paid the price, that too only in Mumbai because of Dravid's inexplicable choice to bowl first. This time, I'm sure we'll see off Monty with caution and respect. We have had bigger threats from Murali and Warne in the past and we have come out of that with success. The moment our batters consider someone as a threat, they tend to give enough respect and succeed against them. Overall I can say that England may play well in patches, a few sessions here and there - but they lack the will and skill to go on to win a test match, leave alone the series. They'll be more than happy to lose the 2nd test in 3 days so that they can get back home early for Christmas. Absolutely not their fault, considering the current scenario under which they have agreed to come. Even if India falters in a couple of sessions, we have the quality in both batting (VS, GG in tearing form, SRT, VVS, MSD providing balance, Yuvi hungry to make it count and RD playing do or die) and bowlilng (ZK's reverse swing, IS's ever increasing list of bunnies, Bajji leading the spin attack with Mishra ready to replace AK) to bounce back and win the tests. 2-0 is on the cards and the only thing that can prevent that from happening is rain (or may be pakistan)

[Lord]

shwetabh is talking only about +points from english side. Lets look at some of the -ves that the English carry and then come to a conclusion on who is the clear favorite for the coming series. Odds against England 1. Two of their main bowlers have been forced to tour (atleast thats what I believe) and will have no motivation at all to play this series. If a tyre blasts anywhere near Chepauk, they will be ready to fly back. Thats the state of their minds and you cant expect 100% from these blokes 2. They have absolutely no match practice. Even their net sessions are not going to be very effective due to the security cover and the weather in Chennai. They are going to be very rusty and doubtful in their stroke play, as the ball doesnt come on to the bat that nicely. And the seamers are going to have some trouble getting into the rhythm as they dont know exactly how the pitch is going to behave and where to bowl to. 3. Their middle order, except for KP, is very vulnerable as exposed by the Saffies during the English summer. 4. Their batting against spin was very poor in the ODIs and I dont think the even test team can shrugg off the spin threat from Bajji, Mishra. They haven't seen Mishra yet. So they are going to have it difficult facing him. Or even Sehwag and Yuvi can do enough damage. 5. In Dhoni we have a better captain than we had in Dravid few years back. Even if we lose the toss and hand the 1st innings advantage to England, Dhoni will have enough tricks up his sleeve to get us back into the test match, whereas KP look lost most of the time when his team doesnt back his plans, as was seen in the ODIs. 6. I expect a few top players in the England team to fake injuries, stomach bug etc. 7. England may have success in a few sessions like a bunch of Indian wickets falling together or England scoring 100+ runs in a session without losing a wicket. But I belive those sessions will be far and few and India will win more sessions than England and will eventually win the test match. 8. England haven't faced Ishant Sharma yet in tests and they are going to have a tough time dancing to his tunes a la PWnting. 9. Agreed that Monty may have some success, but I dont think he'll be lethal enough to win the match signle handedly. Last time around, he was a rookie and we dint respect him much and paid the price, that too only in Mumbai because of Dravid's inexplicable choice to bowl first. This time, I'm sure we'll see off Monty with caution and respect. We have had bigger threats from Murali and Warne in the past and we have come out of that with success. The moment our batters consider someone as a threat, they tend to give enough respect and succeed against them. Overall I can say that England may play well in patches, a few sessions here and there - but they lack the will and skill to go on to win a test match, leave alone the series. They'll be more than happy to lose the 2nd test in 3 days so that they can get back home early for Christmas. Absolutely not their fault, considering the current scenario under which they have agreed to come. Even if India falters in a couple of sessions, we have the quality in both batting (VS, GG in tearing form, SRT, VVS, MSD providing balance, Yuvi hungry to make it count and RD playing do or die) and bowlilng (ZK's reverse swing, IS's ever increasing list of bunnies, Bajji leading the spin attack with Mishra ready to replace AK) to bounce back and win the tests. 2-0 is on the cards and the only thing that can prevent that from happening is rain (or may be pakistan)

DRAVID WAS ACTUALLY A VERY GOOD TEST CAPTAIN.HE WON US THE SERIES IN ENG,WI N TEST IN SAF.WHICH HASNT HAPPENED B4.BESIDES , DHONI HASNT LOST A TOSS IN TESTS YET,SO U CANT SAY 4 SURE HOW WILL HE FARE.

[Desi Cartman]

If we have 5 full days of play and if Eng selects Harmison then i'm 100% sure that India will win ...

[Show_stopper]

Dinakkar, point no. 6 craked me up. LOL!!:haha: