Is Dhoni too defensive as a captain ?

[Rajan]

A captain should not be aggressive just for the sake of it. Dhoni did what every other international captain would have done – Seal a historic triumph first. The weird thing is, he is being slammed as though he batted half was past day 5 and declared with a lead of 750. He didn’t. Our team had 160 overs to bowl NZ out. Now, I challenge anyone on this board to find at least 3 other instances when a side batting 3rd declared the 3rd innings with 160 overs left to bowl out the opposition on the 4th innings. It rarely happens. Generally, teams at best get 135-140 overs. When a captain takes decisions on the field, he cant be punting on weather and light conditions. It was our bad luck that we lost so much time to bad light and run.

He was the not out batsman when the play was called off almost 45 minutes early. he is aware of the DST fiasco and the subsequent impact on playing time. the weather report was very clear, in fact we were lucky that there was no rain on 4th day and the play was not affected till second session on day 5. he is a poor tactician if he did not take these in to account and assumed he had 160 overs to bowl NZ out in 2nd dig. Australian captains would have declared much earlier in the event of any prediction of weather interruption.i hate Asutralian cricketers for their arrogance/sledging but certainly respect them for their bold initiatives and pro activeness. Dhoni failed big time.sorry.

[Ram]

He was the not out batsman when the play was called off almost 45 minutes early. he is aware of the DST fiasco and the subsequent impact on playing time. the weather report was very clear, in fact we were lucky that there was no rain on 4th day and the play was not affected till second session on day 5. he is a poor tactician if he did not take these in to account and assumed he had 160 overs to bowl NZ out in 2nd dig. Australian captains would have declared much earlier in the event of any prediction of weather interruption.i hate Asutralian cricketers for their arrogance/sledging but certainly respect them for their bold initiatives and pro activeness. Dhoni failed big time.sorry.

No way, its easy for you to say that from the comforts of your living room, but I am sure every international captain would have done what Dhoni did. It was the right decision, which took into account the larger interests of the series and also had sufficient buffer for time lost due to inclement weather. How could anyone have possibly known we’ll lost a staggering 70 overs to rain and bad light? Besides, everyone criticizing Dhoni for batting on day 4 is missing an important point. No one has till now factored in the effects of keeping a team, which is going to bat last, on the field in the 3rd innings for as long as possible. It has a very demoralizing effect on the opposition batsman and forces them to play careless cricket when they bat. And, when you’re defending a total of 600, it means you can attack whatever be the case. So, Dhoni could keep fields in catching positions for longer, sustained periods. So, even though he declared 30 overs late, these two factors more than compensated for it. I say this again – Its not the job of the fielding captain to take calculated bets on weather conditions, especially when he is defending a series lead. Dhoni did what he had to do. It was rotten luck that we lost so much time due to rain and bad light.

[Cricketics]

no one is perfect and no one should be blind in supporting a particular favorite of theirs. dhoni did delay a little late and at same time weather was unlucky for us. Also we didn't serve ourself better too by dropping a catch which we did in the end which would have brought the last man in i,e chris martin, the wall of the ducks.

[flamy]

And what sin has balaji done?

he is a quota player :mad:

[zubinpepsi]

vow.. its amazing how most of the people r defending dhoni.. why cant ffs accept tht he made a mistake.. it amazes me to see how far ppl can go in defending dhoni..thinking 530 is not enough to defend against this NZ, every tom, dick and harry know that its gonna rain on the 5th day.. if dhoni wasnt aware, then sorry hes dumb feck like soaib Malik.. if he thought he cant defend 530 , then hes jus a weak captain who so defensive and know have the aggression to go for the win.. sorry this team doesnt have the guts to b no.1 if they r scared of defending 530 against a 8th ranked NZ team.. and he dint push for a win against ENG ion the 2nd test... surprising no one made an issue abt it.. and kumble and dravid got enough stick for being defensive.. y dhoni is seen like messiah.. dhoni is no different from the rest of the indian captains....

[SachDan]

vow.. its amazing how most of the people r defending dhoni.. why cant ffs accept tht he made a mistake.. it amazes me to see how far ppl can go in defending dhoni..thinking 530 is not enough to defend against this NZ, every tom, dick and harry know that its gonna rain on the 5th day.. if dhoni wasnt aware, then sorry hes dumb feck like soaib Malik.. if he thought he cant defend 530 , then hes jus a weak captain who so defensive and know have the aggression to go for the win.. sorry this team doesnt have the guts to b no.1 if they r scared of defending 530 against a 8th ranked NZ team.. and he dint push for a win against ENG ion the 2nd test... surprising no one made an issue abt it.. and kumble and dravid got enough stick for being defensive.. y dhoni is seen like messiah.. dhoni is no different from the rest of the indian captains....

Again Zubin with his favourite mantra - I just call it as I see it. Good, honest post anne :two_thumbs_up:

[Laaloo]

Exactly, a team aspiring to be a champion side does not need to post the opposition more than 600 runs to win especially against a 8th ranked side.

[Rajan]

Now, I challenge anyone on this board to find at least 3 other instances when a side batting 3rd declared the 3rd innings with 160 overs left to bowl out the opposition on the 4th innings. It rarely happens. Generally, teams at best get 135-140 overs.

1.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64113.html Australia set 564 runs and gave almost 190+ overs to pak.declared 2nd innings at 5 for 361. 2.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63165.html West indies set 550+ runs and 2+ days 3.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/298793.html SA set NZ 530 runs on the 3rd day. 200+ overs. 4.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63910.html Australia set 462 runs, declared their 2nd innings at 277 for 5, giving 180+ overs to west indies. 5.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63823.html SA sets 570 runs and 200+ overs for windies. i did not check deeper than this. needless to say, all tests were won by the teams which gave themselves more time to bowl the opposition out.India is not 80's windies or Waugh/Ponting's Aussies with McGrath and Waerne, but certainly this NZ is also weak.shud have been dismissed and the test won. Dhoni failed.

[Ram]

1.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64113.html Australia set 564 runs and gave almost 190+ overs to pak.declared 2nd innings at 5 for 361. 2.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63165.html West indies set 550+ runs and 2+ days 3.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/298793.html SA set NZ 530 runs on the 3rd day. 200+ overs. 4.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63910.html Australia set 462 runs, declared their 2nd innings at 277 for 5, giving 180+ overs to west indies. 5.http://content.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63823.html SA sets 570 runs and 200+ overs for windies. i did not check deeper than this. needless to say, all tests were won by the teams which gave themselves more time to bowl the opposition out.India is not 80's windies or Waugh/Ponting's Aussies with McGrath and Waerne, but certainly this NZ is also weak.shud have been dismissed and the test won. Dhoni failed.

Now, if I post scorecards of matches when teams batting last were bowled out in less 120 overs, will you then accept that you are wrong? Besides, your logic is flawed to even to begin with. To say ‘Well, these teams gave themselves a lot of time and they won the match’ seems to imply that the ONLY way to win a match bowling last is to give yourself in excess of 180-200 overs, which is obviously not the case.

[Rajan]

No way, its easy for you to say that from the comforts of your living room, but I am sure every international captain would have done what Dhoni did. Besides, everyone criticizing Dhoni for batting on day 4 is missing an important point. No one has till now factored in the effects of keeping a team, which is going to bat last, on the field in the 3rd innings for as long as possible. It has a very demoralizing effect on the opposition batsman and forces them to play careless cricket when they bat. And, when you’re defending a total of 600, it means you can attack whatever be the case. So, Dhoni could keep fields in catching positions for longer, sustained periods. So, even though he declared 30 overs late, these two factors more than compensated for it. .

i wud have been happy if he had done it. he did not do it. he did not attack enough.if u had watched the match live, u wud know . he was needlessly defensive. did not create enough opportunities. he let the game drift away on the 4th evening as well as 5th morning too. i am not even sure whether v r discussing about the same innings by the way u r defending him!

[zubinpepsi]

morris has lost it completelty.. hes jus defending for the sake of it..

[cowboysfan]

these old-timers dont get it-they are the 8th ranked team for petes sake.if you cant be satisfied with a 500 lead against them then frankly you dont even deserve the 3rd place in the ranking.If an opponent is down then you step on their throat and not wait for them to get up and shake your hand.

[Ram]

morris has lost it completelty.. hes jus defending for the sake of it..

No I am not. I was supporting India’s move to play for an hour on day 4, even while we were batting on day 3. The funny thing is, had we bowled out NZ in whatever time we got, none of you guys would have had the chance to proclaim your ‘phail theories’.. :P

[Ram]

these old-timers dont get it-they are the 8th ranked team for petes sake.if you cant be satisfied with a 500 lead against them then frankly you dont even deserve the 3rd place in the ranking.If an opponent is down then you step on their throat and not wait for them to get up and shake your hand.

Don’t harp relentlessly on the semantics of rankings and ICC ratings. They are not even worth the byte space they take up to be stored in a computer. We did what we HAD to do. And every other international captain would have done the same.

[Ram]

i wud have been happy if he had done it. he did not do it. he did not attack enough.if u had watched the match live' date=' u wud know . he was needlessly defensive. did not create enough opportunities. he let the game drift away on the 4th evening as well as 5th morning too. i am not even sure whether v r discussing about the same innings by the way u r defending him![/quote'] If you want criticize our intensity while being on the field on days 4 and 5, go ahead. But don’t say the decision to declare on day 4 was wrong. Those are two completely different issues.

[Rajan]

Now, if I post scorecards of matches when teams batting last were bowled out in less 120 overs, will you then accept that you are wrong? Besides, your logic is flawed to even to begin with. To say ‘Well, these teams gave themselves a lot of time and they won the match’ seems to imply that the ONLY way to win a match bowling last is to give yourself in excess of 180-200 overs, which is obviously not the case.

MM, u have lost it. u threw a challenge, an open challenge for any one at the board. u said this: ======== Now, I challenge anyone on this board to find at least 3 other instances when a side batting 3rd declared the 3rd innings with 160 overs left to bowl out the opposition on the 4th innings. It rarely happens. Generally, teams at best get 135-140 overs. =============================== i accepted the challenge and proved ur perception/assumption is wrong.now, accept it instead of arguing something just for the sake of argument. My point is very simple- Dhoni is very much aware of NZ weather. especially wellington weather.no doubts about it. he should have declared early. third, U r wrong if u say that other international captains would also have done that. sorry. i disagree. Australian captains have historically have set even challenging targets and won. Australian captains like Waugh or Ponting would certainly have declared earlier.that sets them apart from Dhoni.

[zubinpepsi]

^^ in b4 we are not ozzies... but hilariously the same people will claim that we r better than ozzies.. :--D

[Ram]

MM, u have lost it. u threw a challenge, an open challenge for any one at the board. u said this: ======== Now, I challenge anyone on this board to find at least 3 other instances when a side batting 3rd declared the 3rd innings with 160 overs left to bowl out the opposition on the 4th innings. It rarely happens. Generally, teams at best get 135-140 overs. =============================== i accepted the challenge and proved ur perception/assumption is wrong.now, accept it instead of arguing something just for the sake of argument.

I threw out the challenge to show that a 3rd innings declaration with more than 180-200 overs left in the game rarely happens.. I did not say it NEVER happens. So, to begin with, you have misconstrued the purpose of my challenge.

My point is very simple- Dhoni is very much aware of NZ weather. especially wellington weather.no doubts about it. he should have declared early. third, U r wrong if u say that other international captains would also have done that. sorry. i disagree. Australian captains have historically have set even challenging targets and won. Australian captains like Waugh or Ponting would certainly have declared earlier.that sets them apart from Dhoni.

You're kidding right? Ponting is a guy who deliberately kept his frontline bowlers away from the attack and had part-timers bowl at Indian batsman, so that he escapes a match ban, even while compromising his team’s chances of victory. Here, we did not compromise our chances of victory. We were simply short-changed by the Weather Gods.

[SachDan]

If you want criticize our intensity while being on the field on days 4 and 5, go ahead. But don’t say the decision to declare on day 4 was wrong. Those are two completely different issues.

I would go the other way around. Fielding lapses are part of the game. Add to that our catching in this series was not of the top quality. It was Dhoni's decision to delay the declaration that deprived us of an easy victory. Period! Yeah..every other INDIAN CAPTAIN would have done the same but not captains of other teams :--D

[The Outsider]

I think it's fair to say Rajan has pwned Morris - the thread should be declared closed.