1 great bowling performance after 4 yrs, 0 good batting performance in 4 yrs, Freddie is superman

[King Tendulkar]

because thats not his role.his role is to tie up one end' date='bowl fast n accurate consistently,make the batsmen uncomfortable,so that others can take wickets too.bowling is all about building pressure.if he takes wickets in the process,fantastic.[/quote'] Well that seem a great excuse for not taking wickets. Its not my job taking wickets, I just build up pressure and let others take the wickets. Considering how awful england have been since 2005 don't you think he should take wickets as well? So you are literally saying the strategy meetings of england and Flintoffs mindset is , he just has to keep things tight and its down to others to take wickets due to some percieved pressure he has built?

[Lord]

Well that seem a great excuse for not taking wickets. Its not my job taking wickets, I just build up pressure and let others take the wickets. Considering how awful england have been since 2005 don't you think he should take wickets as well? So you are literally saying the strategy meetings of england and Flintoffs mindset is , he just has to keep things tight and its down to others to take wickets due to some percieved pressure he has built?

i'm not saying Freddie role is only to create pressure.he does bowl to get wickets.but that is not his PRIMARY role.wen the batsmen consistently defend u n look to see the bowler thru,it becomes harder to take wickets.but because of the pressure he creates wickets from the other end.dont forget how he gets the crowd involved.he makes thing happen,either from his end or from other end.

[Gambit]

Last 50 tests ? 50 tests is a long time' date=' boss. Some great cricketers have their entire career spanning 50 tests.[/quote'] Exactly. It is a long time. And he has done exceptionally well with both bat and ball over a length of 50 tests which goes to show that he isn't 'Afridiesque' like you suggested. If anything, if he was Afridiesque, he would have done well in 2 tests and flopped in the other 48.

From 2006 to 2009 ( last 3 yrs) http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/12856.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;spanmin1=23+Jul+2006;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround Batting avg of 26.73. Bowling avg of 36.23 Subhan- allah.

LOL. This is over a period of JUST 15 tests. You seem to be a major Sehwag fanboy. Did you know that Sehwag averaged a mere 37 for 3 years, between May 2005 and Jan 2008. Was he Afridiesque too? And this was over a period of 19 tests. From what I have seen of you so far(this and the Ganguly thread), for you cricket starts and ends with Statsguru. Cricket is as mental as it is physical. Cricketers like Freddie can lift their entire side with a spell or a wicket or two. They don't necessarily have to take 5fer after 5fer to lead their side to victory. Watching Freddie put his soul into every delivery uplifts England like no other. Pathan can take a 5fer with two full tosses and three down the legside dismissals and no one would bat an eyelid but Freddie can take a roaring 3fer and change the entire complexion of the game. He is a force of nature and it would be unfair to judge his utility using mere numbers.

[Sachinism]

Exactly. It is a long time. And he has done exceptionally well with both bat and ball over a length of 50 tests which goes to show that he isn't 'Afridiesque' like you suggested. If anything, if he was Afridiesque, he would have done well in 2 tests and flopped in the other 48. LOL. This is over a period of JUST 15 tests. You seem to be a major Sehwag fanboy. Did you know that Sehwag averaged a mere 37 for 3 years, between May 2005 and Jan 2008. Was he Afridiesque too? And this was over a period of 19 tests. From what I have seen of you so far(this and the Ganguly thread), for you cricket starts and ends with Statsguru. Cricket is as mental as it is physical. Cricketers like Freddie can lift their entire side with a spell or a wicket or two. They don't necessarily have to take 5fer after 5fer to lead their side to victory. Watching Freddie put his soul into every delivery uplifts England like no other. Pathan can take a 5fer with two full tosses and three down the legside dismissals and no one would bat an eyelid but Freddie can take a roaring 3fer and change the entire complexion of the game. He is a force of nature and it would be unfair to judge his utility using mere numbers.

Very well put. His mere presence on the field makes such a massive difference and the amount he puts into every delivery is amazing. Watching the spells he has bowled so far this ashes series, you can understand why people have been going a bit OTT

[patriot]

Exactly. It is a long time. And he has done exceptionally well with both bat and ball over a length of 50 tests which goes to show that he isn't 'Afridiesque' like you suggested. If anything, if he was Afridiesque, he would have done well in 2 tests and flopped in the other 48. LOL. This is over a period of JUST 15 tests. You seem to be a major Sehwag fanboy. Did you know that Sehwag averaged a mere 37 for 3 years, between May 2005 and Jan 2008. Was he Afridiesque too? And this was over a period of 19 tests. From what I have seen of you so far(this and the Ganguly thread), for you cricket starts and ends with Statsguru. Cricket is as mental as it is physical. Cricketers like Freddie can lift their entire side with a spell or a wicket or two. They don't necessarily have to take 5fer after 5fer to lead their side to victory. Watching Freddie put his soul into every delivery uplifts England like no other. Pathan can take a 5fer with two full tosses and three down the legside dismissals and no one would bat an eyelid but Freddie can take a roaring 3fer and change the entire complexion of the game. He is a force of nature and it would be unfair to judge his utility using mere numbers.

Stats although don't tell the entire story, paint a pretty honest picture. Sirjee, Its better to look at stats rather delude yourself by mistaking myths to be facts. If you even looked at the last page of Ganguly thread - almost everyone agrees that Ganguly was pathetic on the most important aspects of captaincy , be it leading from the front with the bat, keeping calm under pressure or being tactically brilliant on the field to get the best out of bowlers. Dhoni beats him black and blue in all these aspects- APART from statiscally resultwise being FAR superior - because if you don't have those attributes the results would not come. Your singular point about the so called merit of Ganguly's captaincy , about how he " selected" players , is nothing but a rubbish myth, exposed by a couple of other posters. Most of the players including Dhoni and Yuvraj selected themselves through their "A" tour and under 19 performances. Ganguly himself - a walking wicket in test cricket for almost 2 years was not fit to be in the side, wtf is he to select players. Its the selectors job, and they selected players on the merit of their performances. Your other point about how he took over under horrible circumstances also tries to give him bucketloads of undue credit. He had the support of Tendulkar, Kumble, Srinath ( who he treated like sh!t), Dravid, Laxman - who were all as much or more experienced than him and were proven great performers for India. Then the superb role played by Wright. Losing a shameful 20 odd finals in a row and failing to beat the 2 weakest sides in test cricket ( Zim and WI in 2002) , are probably the " highlights" of this motivating, inspiring genius of a Ganguly's captainship. WRT to Sehwag, don't even begin to compare him to Freddie. What Sehwag has done as a test opener is UNPRECEDENTED in the 150 years of test cricket. An average of 50+ at that rate, 2 triples...etc. You just come across as just another fan, who's more swayed by hype and myths rather than facts. VVS and Harbhajan and individually done FAR more against Australia, but the English media has made Freddie some sort of mythological hero and you haev just fallen for it. I am not saying Freddie is not great, but so much hype about a frickin single 5W haul every 4 years or so ? BTW, I clearly compared consistency of Afridi the T20 and ODI player to Freddie the test player. That should not have been too difficult to figure out.

[chanakya]

Stats although don't tell the entire story, paint a pretty honest picture. Sirjee, Its better to look at stats rather delude yourself by mistaking myths to be facts. If you even looked at the last page of Ganguly thread - almost everyone agrees that Ganguly was pathetic on the most important aspects of captaincy , be it leading from the front with the bat, keeping calm under pressure or being tactically brilliant on the field to get the best out of bowlers. Dhoni beats him black and blue in all these aspects- APART from statiscally resultwise being FAR superior - because if you don't have those attributes the results would not come. Your singular point about the so called merit of Ganguly's captaincy , about how he " selected" players , is nothing but a rubbish myth, exposed by a couple of other posters. Most of the players including Dhoni and Yuvraj selected themselves through their "A" tour and under 19 performances. Ganguly himself - a walking wicket in test cricket for almost 2 years was not fit to be in the side, wtf is he to select players. Its the selectors job, and they selected players on the merit of their performances. Your other point about how he took over under horrible circumstances also tries to give him bucketloads of undue credit. He had the support of Tendulkar, Kumble, Srinath ( who he treated like sh!t), Dravid, Laxman - who were all as much or more experienced than him and were proven great performers for India. Then the superb role played by Wright. Losing a shameful 20 odd finals in a row and failing to beat the 2 weakest sides in test cricket ( Zim and WI in 2002) , are probably the " highlights" of this motivating, inspiring genius of a Ganguly's captainship. WRT to Sehwag, don't even begin to compare him to Freddie. What Sehwag has done as a test opener is UNPRECEDENTED in the 150 years of test cricket. An average of 50+ at that rate, 2 triples...etc. You just come across as just another fan, who's more swayed by hype and myths rather than facts. VVS and Harbhajan and individually done FAR more against Australia, but the English media has made Freddie some sort of mythological hero and you haev just fallen for it. I am not saying Freddie is not great, but so much hype about a frickin single 5W haul every 4 years or so ? BTW, I clearly compared consistency of Afridi the T20 and ODI player to Freddie the test player. That should not have been too difficult to figure out.

yup its all the media. And statistics are always honest to goodness impossible to deceive stuff.

[Gambit]

Stats although don't tell the entire story, paint a pretty honest picture. Sirjee, Its better to look at stats rather delude yourself by mistaking myths to be facts. If you even looked at the last page of Ganguly thread - almost everyone agrees that Ganguly was pathetic on the most important aspects of captaincy , be it leading from the front with the bat, keeping calm under pressure or being tactically brilliant on the field to get the best out of bowlers. Dhoni beats him black and blue in all these aspects- APART from statiscally resultwise being FAR superior - because if you don't have those attributes the results would not come. Your singular point about the so called merit of Ganguly's captaincy , about how he " selected" players , is nothing but a rubbish myth, exposed by a couple of other posters. Most of the players including Dhoni and Yuvraj selected themselves through their "A" tour and under 19 performances. Ganguly himself - a walking wicket in test cricket for almost 2 years was not fit to be in the side, wtf is he to select players. Its the selectors job, and they selected players on the merit of their performances. Your other point about how he took over under horrible circumstances also tries to give him bucketloads of undue credit. He had the support of Tendulkar, Kumble, Srinath ( who he treated like sh!t), Dravid, Laxman - who were all as much or more experienced than him and were proven great performers for India. Then the superb role played by Wright. Losing a shameful 20 odd finals in a row and failing to beat the 2 weakest sides in test cricket ( Zim and WI in 2002) , are probably the " highlights" of this motivating, inspiring genius of a Ganguly's captainship.

Look brother. Dhoni and Ganguly inherited very different Indian teams at very different times. I have tried to drill this into your head but to no avail. Ganguly's achievements as captain when compared to what earlier Indian captains achieved home and away were colossal and unmatched. He raised the bar like no other. We used to get trampled like insects abroad but under him, we showed fight and firepower. His batting obviously wasn't the best in the lineup. But as captain, he did average 43 away from home against the top 8 teams which is far from shabby. Suppose you hail from a very poor family and to improve your financial situation, you start a company. You do well and are prosperous. Your turnover is about a lakh. 30 years down the line your son takes over and build on what you did. Turnover increases to 20 lakhs. That doesn't necessarily mean you were a piss poor businessman compared to your son. What it means is that you did well to take your family out of a rut and gave your son a very good launching pad to much greater things. He was brash and coarse. Even the biggest bastard of them all, SRW acknowledges this. He showed Australia the literal middle finger and beat them at their own game. Dhoni is building on the platform Ganguly established during his tenure. Indian Cricket and cricketers did a near volte face under him. If you didn't follow Indian Cricket in the 90s, I can understand. If you did, then it's perplexing that you don't see this change. Or maybe you don't want to.

WRT to Sehwag, don't even begin to compare him to Freddie. What Sehwag has done as a test opener is UNPRECEDENTED in the 150 years of test cricket. An average of 50+ at that rate, 2 triples...etc.

Where does the question of what Sehwag did earlier arise? I showed what he did over a period of 3 years just as what you did for Freddie. Did you compare Sehwag to Afridi during that period just as you have done for Freddie? Do you point fingers at Sehwag and wonder why he is yet to win a single ODI final for India? How about his below par 3rd and 4th innings averages? Just 1 ton from 50 3rd+4th innings knocks. Do you question his status as a 'matchwinner' despite just 3 of his 15 test tons coming in Indian victories? Are you not questioning him because you are 'swayed by hype and myths'?

[Mr. Wicket]

Well that seem a great excuse for not taking wickets. Its not my job taking wickets, I just build up pressure and let others take the wickets. Considering how awful england have been since 2005 don't you think he should take wickets as well? So you are literally saying the strategy meetings of england and Flintoffs mindset is , he just has to keep things tight and its down to others to take wickets due to some percieved pressure he has built?

Fair points, KT. How is it that other bowlers like McGrath, Kumble, Warne, Murali, Ambrose, Pollock, etc could fill roles as the stock and strike bowlers - bowling long tight spells to put pressure on the batsmen and helping the guy at the other end (who they might go after) but also taking the wickets? Saying Flintoff just creates opportunities is a strange excuse. I think it's more an issue of the fact that Flintoff doesn't pitch the ball up more (something he also mentioned after the Lord's test and his five-for then, where he said he was making an effort to bowl fuller) - so that the ball beats the bat more than it actually takes the edge.

[Chandan]

almost everyone agrees that Ganguly was pathetic on the most important aspects of captaincy ' date=' be it leading from the front with the bat, keeping calm under pressure or being tactically brilliant on the field to get the best out of bowlers. Dhoni beats him black and blue in all these aspects- APART from statiscally resultwise being FAR superior - [b']because if you don't have those attributes the results would not come. Your singular point about the so called merit of Ganguly's captaincy , about how he " selected" players , is nothing but a rubbish myth, exposed by a couple of other posters. Most of the players including Dhoni and Yuvraj selected themselves through their "A" tour and under 19 performances. Ganguly himself - a walking wicket in test cricket for almost 2 years was not fit to be in the side, wtf is he to select players. Its the selectors job, and they selected players on the merit of their performances. .

How you shift goalposts, Patriot, it is almost unbelievable. You didn't answer one single question of mine. Ponting leads from the front and has terrific numbers to show---is he a better captain than Border? And if you don't know, in Ganguly's era, selectors took captain's and coaches words very seriously. Why else did you think they had such long meetings just before the selection of teams for important tours? And Dhoni's performances are better than Ganguly's on the basis of just 7 tests? It is saying as if Mike Hussey was a better batsman than Sachin and Lara just after playing 7 matches! What next? U-19 performance selects players? Wow!! So where is Pujara? Why has he not been given a single chance? Rayudu was the star at that level. How many chances did he get? Stop turning cricket into a numerical game.

[vvvslaxman]

That reminds me of a comment from Sehwag. He said after a match that he was looking to play Freddie off safely so that he could score off the rest of the bowlers. That' date=' I think, is a huge compliment.[/quote'] Gambhir also said Flintoff has bowled the most hostile spell he has ever faced. Punter said in 2005 Flintoff hit the ball harder than any other bowler.

[vvvslaxman]

Michael Holding gave a beautiful explanation. One of the reason he hasn't picked more wickets was because only 10% of his dismissals were bowled or leg before which is below average for any bowler (spinner included). Batsmen generally tries to see him off and score off others.

[Mr. Wicket]

Michael Holding gave a beautiful explanation. One of the reason he hasn't picked more wickets was because only 10% of his dismissals were bowled or leg before which is below average for any bowler (spinner included). Batsmen generally tries to see him off and score off others.

That's also an issue of bowling the wrong length. Given the height and trajectory Flintoff has, he needs to regularly pitch it up further. When he has pitched it up more (Ashes 05, Lord's test here) he's a regular threat to the stumps and puts the LBW and bowled dismissals in play more often. Look in other series, particularly abroad such as the last Ashes in Australia. Flintoff bowled as usual with a lot of pace and fire- but just kept it too short and thus didn't have the success of other fuller-length bowlers. Re. the excuse of batsmen seeing him off and scoring off others... that's a regular tactic to better bowlers. That's how they handle a McGrath, Ambrose, a Kumble in India, Muralitharan, Warne, Pollock, etc. Didn't stop them getting wickets.

[patriot]

Look brother. Dhoni and Ganguly inherited very different Indian teams at very different times. I have tried to drill this into your head but to no avail. Ganguly's achievements as captain when compared to what earlier Indian captains achieved home and away were colossal and unmatched. He raised the bar like no other. We used to get trampled like insects abroad but under him, we showed fight and firepower. His batting obviously wasn't the best in the lineup. But as captain, he did average 43 away from home against the top 8 teams which is far from shabby

. =>>>> FALSE. Azharuddin has a much better record as captain AT HOME. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/26329.html?captain=1;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28779.html?captain=1;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting Azhar 20 tests: W13, L4, D3 Ganguly 21 tests: W10, L3, D8 Azhar's team was far more ruthless at home. Under Ganguly we have failed to even clean sweep teams like Zimbabwe. You see how statsguru that you detest so much unmasks some of myths about your hero ? Ganguly inherited a team of Tendulkar, Dravid, Kumble, Laxman, Srinath - half the team of proven match winners - what was so bad about this inheritance. They were all given the clean chit in the match fixing scandal and in any case never had an image problem. Or are trying to bull shyte that Ganguly inspired great performances from them by coming late for tosses or remaining semi-naked draped in a towel not to " upset" the great partnership between VVS and Dravid ? This became some news ...I guess this is the sort of novel inspiration that has created myths that has bedazzled fans like yourself. And what is so great about the team that Dhoni has inherited COMPARATIVELY ?

Suppose you hail from a very poor family and to improve your financial situation, you start a company. You do well and are prosperous. Your turnover is about a lakh. 30 years down the line your son takes over and build on what you did. Turnover increases to 20 lakhs. That doesn't necessarily mean you were a piss poor businessman compared to your son. What it means is that you did well to take your family out of a rut and gave your son a very good launching pad to much greater things.

==>>>> Very bad analogy. Ganguly built shyte mountains of myths among a few fans. One of which I have exposed above. If in 7-8 years, the entire 11 changes and becomes the NO.1 team, will you still give credit to the " launching pad" given by Ganguly.

He was brash and coarse. Even the biggest bastard of them all, SRW acknowledges this. He showed Australia the literal middle finger and beat them at their own game. Dhoni is building on the platform Ganguly established during his tenure. Indian Cricket and cricketers did a near volte face under him. If you didn't follow Indian Cricket in the 90s, I can understand. If you did, then it's perplexing that you don't see this change. Or maybe you don't want to.

==>>>>> Yes, yes another myth. Coming late for the toss repeatedly to show that you are a uncourteous, uncouth person who thinks himself to be bigger than the game counts as ruthless mental disintegration , I can imagine. It damned Australia so much that Harbhajan single handedly annhiliated them with his bowling to produce once in a lifetime performance and in the middle of yet another humiliating defeat 2 of our classiest test batters, produced one the the greatest fightbacks in the history of test cricket in Kolkata that turned a series on its head. Thanks to Ganguly who spent a truckload of time in that test match sitting in the dressing room in the same position, wrapping himself in a towel, watching 2 champions with nerves of steel battle it out remaining NOT OUT the entire day 4. Believe me had Ganguly taken off the towel or changed his sitting position, those 2 would have gotten out and the history that we are so proud of would be totally different. Australians well and truely believe that it was this masterful ploy by Ganguly that unsettled them and beat them at their own game. Do you know what your hero Flintoff had to say about this " I am bigger than the game " attitude of Ganguly when he had a stint with Lancashire ? Aha..perhaps Ganguly was just trying to be a brash and coarse bastard to unsettle Flintoff , so that it would play on Flintoffs mind, when India tours England later. If anything Ganguly is someone who lacks self respect and thinks he can play on till he wants irrespective of how he bats. What do you have to say about his sucking upto Pawar with arranging a meeting et al when he was booted from the side ? Or his shameless exploitation of the emotions of the gullible Kolkata public ? KKR have given him enough hints that he is NO GOOD and unwanted, any selfrespecting man who has captained India for a period of time should have given KKR a middle finger and walked out. But not Ganguly. He'll fail another season banking on the support of the Kolkata crowd to put pressure on SRK and burn his effigies. not allow his films to release in Kolkata if he dares to boot him out. He's a fighter..I tell you.

Where does the question of what Sehwag did earlier arise? I showed what he did over a period of 3 years just as what you did for Freddie. Did you compare Sehwag to Afridi during that period just as you have done for Freddie? Do you point fingers at Sehwag and wonder why he is yet to win a single ODI final for India? How about his below par 3rd and 4th innings averages? Just 1 ton from 50 3rd+4th innings knocks. Do you question his status as a 'matchwinner' despite just 3 of his 15 test tons coming in Indian victories? Are you not questioning him because you are 'swayed by hype and myths'?

==>>> How about SRT's 4th innings average ? Do you forget the number of matches Sehwag has set us up by his smashing performance in the 1st innings ? Was it Sehwag's fault that it rained in Chennai when he scored 155 against Aussies when we had the match by the scruff of the neck ? Was it sehwags fault that the team collapsed disgustingly when he scored the most audacious century( 195) by an indian in Australia ( in Melbourne). Do you forget the countless number of times , he has put off teams even with a quick 30-40 ? Would the win in chennai against Eng last year been possible without Sehwags 80 odd from 60 balls? Heck no. Believe me , SRT would have played in his usual meek manner in 4th innings, made the dressing room nervous as hell, choked as usual and we would have collapased like we always do. Instead Sehwag made a joke of a target ( 387), that was far more than what India had ever chased home. How many finals has SRT performed with the bat in the 450 odd games he has played ? I can remember Sharjah in 1998 that some people still fantasize about and then after a small matter of 10 years in the VB tri series last year. Since you claim to have watched alot more cricket through the late 90's , please correct me if I have missed some more "final" performances of this most capped ODI player, who also holds most of the recordds in the ODI format.

[Gambit]

=>>>> FALSE. Azharuddin has a much better record as captain AT HOME. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/...s;type=batting http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/...s;type=batting Azhar 20 tests: W13, L4, D3 Ganguly 21 tests: W10, L3, D8 Azhar's team was far more ruthless at home. Under Ganguly we have failed to even clean sweep teams like Zimbabwe. You see how statsguru that you detest so much unmasks some of myths about your hero ?

My emphasis wrt Ganguly's captaincy has always been on performances away from home. Now, please compare Azhar to Ganguly away using your best buddy statsguru from home. Compare their batting averages as captain away from home against top 8 teams too.

Ganguly inherited a team of Tendulkar, Dravid, Kumble, Laxman, Srinath - half the team of proven match winners - what was so bad about this inheritance. They were all given the clean chit in the match fixing scandal and in any case never had an image problem. Or are trying to bull shyte that Ganguly inspired great performances from them by coming late for tosses or remaining semi-naked draped in a towel not to " upset" the great partnership between VVS and Dravid ? This became some news ...I guess this is the sort of novel inspiration that has created myths that has bedazzled fans like yourself. And what is so great about the team that Dhoni has inherited COMPARATIVELY ?

The team of proven match winners won jack all away from home until Ganguly came at the helm. Just a quick recap - '96 0-1 v Eng '96 0-2 v RSA '97 0-1 v WI '98 0-1 v NZ '99 0-3 v OZ Under Ganguly, we became a different team abroad. Just compare the number of wins under Ganguly abroad with the number of wins in the last 20 odd years under various captains before he came. And before you say that Ganguly had nothing to do with those wins, he contributed in wins in Pak,WI,England and Sri Lanka. India, under Ganguly, looked a very different outfit compared to India of the 90s. Just because you can't find the filter for this in statsguru doesn't mean this assertion is false. Scores of commentators, cricket journalists and former players stated this not once but again and again and again. But hey, maybe they should shut up and let statsguru do all the talking.

==>>>>> Yes, yes another myth. Coming late for the toss repeatedly to show that you are a uncourteous, uncouth person who thinks himself to be bigger than the game counts as ruthless mental disintegration , I can imagine. It damned Australia so much that Harbhajan single handedly annhiliated them with his bowling to produce once in a lifetime performance and in the middle of yet another humiliating defeat 2 of our classiest test batters, produced one the the greatest fightbacks in the history of test cricket in Kolkata that turned a series on its head. Thanks to Ganguly who spent a truckload of time in that test match sitting in the dressing room in the same position, wrapping himself in a towel, watching 2 champions with nerves of steel battle it out remaining NOT OUT the entire day 4. Believe me had Ganguly taken off the towel or changed his sitting position, those 2 would have gotten out and the history that we are so proud of would be totally different. Australians well and truely believe that it was this masterful ploy by Ganguly that unsettled them and beat them at their own game.

Australia prided themselves on unsettling teams off the field even before the cricket began. SRW acknowledged that Australia's tactics were not successful in the 2001 series because of Ganguly's return fire. RSA were almost as good as OZ on paper but mentally, they weren't even on the same map. India under Ganguly matched Australia on and off the field. BTW who fought with the selectors to get Harbhajan included? Was it statsguru? Like it or not, the mental aspect of the game made a huge difference against the Aussies.

If anything Ganguly is someone who lacks self respect and thinks he can play on till he wants irrespective of how he bats. What do you have to say about his sucking upto Pawar with arranging a meeting et al when he was booted from the side ? Or his shameless exploitation of the emotions of the gullible Kolkata public ? KKR have given him enough hints that he is NO GOOD and unwanted, any selfrespecting man who has captained India for a period of time should have given KKR a middle finger and walked out. But not Ganguly. He'll fail another season banking on the support of the Kolkata crowd to put pressure on SRK and burn his effigies. not allow his films to release in Kolkata if he dares to boot him out. He's a fighter..I tell you.

Fact 1 - Ganguly has won more MoM awards than any other KKR player in the IPL. Fact 2 - He was the best Indian Test batsman since his comeback in RSA 2006 until the end of the Series v RSA in 2008 after Sehwag. He retired on a high against OZ with a 100 and an 80 in two test wins v OZ. Regarding your comments about film posters etc, by the same absurb judging of players token, did Ganguly ever do anything that compares with Dhoni snubbing the Indian government and 'demeaning' the Khel Ratna by not attending the ceremony choosing to instead shoot some ad somewhere?

==>>> How about SRT's 4th innings average ? Do you forget the number of matches Sehwag has set us up by his smashing performance in the 1st innings ? Was it Sehwag's fault that it rained in Chennai when he scored 155 against Aussies when we had the match by the scruff of the neck ? Was it sehwags fault that the team collapsed disgustingly when he scored the most audacious century( 195) by an indian in Australia ( in Melbourne). Do you forget the countless number of times , he has put off teams even with a quick 30-40 ?

SRT's 4th innings performances aren't the best but then again aren't the worst either. It's much better than Sehwag's 30 though. Despite his average 4th innings performance, Tendulkar atleast has 3 epic tons in the 4th innings. 136 v Pak at Chennai which we all know about(since it happened in the 90s, you might have missed it), 119* v England to save a game and 103* v England last year. The excuses you have used for Sehwag are valid for SRT throughout his career. Agree or disagree? And a quick 30-40 from Sehwag in tests is a decent contribution according to you? Reminds me of Ganguly fanboys going on and on about his 39 and 40 at Karachi. :cantstop:

Would the win in chennai against Eng last year been possible without Sehwags 80 odd from 60 balls? Heck no. Believe me , SRT would have played in his usual meek manner in 4th innings, made the dressing room nervous as hell, choked as usual and we would have collapased like we always do. Instead Sehwag made a joke of a target ( 387), that was far more than what India had ever chased home.

Hmm. Tendulkar made 136 v Pak, got out and we lost with just 17 runs to go. What stopped us from doing the same after Sehwag got out(when another 260 runs were required)?

How many finals has SRT performed with the bat in the 450 odd games he has played ? I can remember Sharjah in 1998 that some people still fantasize about and then after a small matter of 10 years in the VB tri series last year. Since you claim to have watched alot more cricket through the late 90's , please correct me if I have missed some more "final" performances of this most capped ODI player, who also holds most of the recordds in the ODI format.

Tendulkar averages 53 in finals with the following performances against the best teams - v Australia 10 10 1 514 134 117* 91 57.11 2 2 0 v England 1 1 0 14 14 - - 14.00 0 0 0 v New Zealand 1 1 0 69 69 - - 69.00 0 1 0 v Pakistan 5 5 0 161 95 41 24 32.20 0 1 1 v South Africa 5 5 0 218 67 57 45 43.60 0 2 0 v Sri Lanka 9 8 1 361 128 74 53 51.57 1 3 1 v West Indies 5 5 1 134 66 40 28* 33.50 0 1 2 Here's an exercise for you. Use statsguru and show me tournament finals India has won without a contribution from Sachin since his debut. Let's see the list for Sehwag(he has played in 16 finals where he averages a whopping 30 and is yet to win us a single match). Your favourite Ganguly beats Sehwag hollow in this.

[zubinpepsi]

How about SRT's 4th innings average ? Do you forget the number of matches Sehwag has set us up by his smashing performance in the 1st innings ? Was it Sehwag's fault that it rained in Chennai when he scored 155 against Aussies when we had the match by the scruff of the neck ? Was it sehwags fault that the team collapsed disgustingly when he scored the most audacious century( 195) by an indian in Australia ( in Melbourne). Do you forget the countless number of times , he has put off teams even with a quick 30-40 ? Would the win in chennai against Eng last year been possible without Sehwags 80 odd from 60 balls? Heck no. Believe me , SRT would have played in his usual meek manner in 4th innings, made the dressing room nervous as hell, choked as usual and we would have collapased like we always do. Instead Sehwag made a joke of a target ( 387), that was far more than what India had ever chased home. How many finals has SRT performed with the bat in the 450 odd games he has played ? I can remember Sharjah in 1998 that some people still fantasize about and then after a small matter of 10 years in the VB tri series last year. Since you claim to have watched alot more cricket through the late 90's , please correct me if I have missed some more "final" performances of this most capped ODI player, who also holds most of the recordds in the ODI format.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: what a tool u r.. comparing SRTagainst the inconsistent shewag.. if ur a sehwag fanboy shudnt u b supporting flintoff.. as they both provide a similar impact on their team with their presence.. albiet their average stats..? :wtf:

[punjabi_khota]

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: what a tool u r.. comparing SRTagainst the inconsistent shewag.. if ur a sehwag fanboy shudnt u b supporting flintoff.. as they both provide a similar impact on their team with their presence.. albiet their average stats..? :wtf:

Sehwag has extraordinary stats in tests.

[zubinpepsi]

Sehwag has extraordinary stats in tests.

sorry i stand corrected.. 50+ avg is not an average thing. wat i mean to say is.. shewag blows hot and cold... shewag is an impact player for India jus like hoe flintoff is to england.. look at his ODI.. he doesnt have much to show off.. but the start he gives is very essential for the rest of the players to cash it on.. if a guy who hails shewag for this, shudnt he be also praising flintoff.?? that was my qn..:--D

[vvvslaxman]

Very good 10 over spell. Best spell i have seen in recent times apart from Ishant's spell and most recently Zaheer's non stop 15 over spell in New zealand. Ishant didn't take many wickets. But we all know what that spell did.

[hari504504]

Flintoff led the attack from the front when it mattered the most ... don't compare him with Fluke afridi

[jusarrived]

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: what a tool u r.. comparing SRTagainst the inconsistent shewag.. if ur a sehwag fanboy shudnt u b supporting flintoff.. as they both provide a similar impact on their team with their presence.. albiet their average stats..? :wtf:

inconsistent ? avg of 52+ @ ~80 sr , a stat SRT can only dream of