suma25 Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 How many more babies will be killed before we can do something about this? Menaka Ganhi needs to build some shelter for these street dogs before placing their rights above human babies. Please remind me how many more babies have been killed by dogs after that incident in Mumbai.
Mariyam Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 As tragic as the incident in Baglapur is, there are many things that we can do other than criticize Maneka Gandhi and call for the extermination of strays. Thats a very simplistic solution. It is we (humans) who in our quest for urbanization and in the name of development have removed the dogs from what was once their rightful habitat. We encroach upon their land, build our huge buildings, factories, slums even and they not only lose their natural habitat, but also their source of food. Ever thought about that? A dog doesn't generally eat human flesh. That it mauled this kid is because it probably was hungry and out of other options or just crazed by hunger. What we can do, is take a stray dog home, have it vaccinated and take care of it. That way it won't be a stray anymore and maul unsuspecting children. @ people who say Dogs don't have a place in the food chain are simply fooling themselves. Dogs are carnivores and an integral part of the food chain as you and me. I'm a Muslim, not a very religious one though. Some interpretation of Islam says that dogs are unclean and not fit to be pets. In spite of this, I've taken a stray dog as a pet a few years ago. My family welcomed by decision, some in my building/society didn't. I am not trying to act holier than thou here but just trying to say that if I can do it, so can you guys.
DomainK Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I dont think anyone here had yet called for extermination of dogs. So no need to get emotional over it. @Suma: We have incidents in Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore. Must we wait for more? Counting dead babies is fun, isnt it?
Mariyam Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I dont think anyone here had yet called for extermination of dogs. So no need to get emotional over it. @Suma: We have incidents in Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore. Must we wait for more? Counting dead babies is fun, isnt it? Yes they did indirectly. Somebody called for stray dogs to be neutered. That is not very different from extermination.There is no next generation.
Mariyam Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I think the supreme court should just intervene in such cases and find out a way to deal with it. Change the laws if needed. Laws are made to protect the society from dangers. If the law is itself becoming a threat' date=' it needs to be changed.[/quote'] Supreme Court???? Our judiciary is already burdened with a backlog of millions of cases. If and when this makes it to the court, it will be decades before the case is solved. Let me ask you a question: The incidence of strays biting kids or whoever is not very high. Most strays are not crazy. Does it warrant 'neutering' all strays for the actions of a few? Point to ponder. Hypothetically, if we have 10-12 cases where poor homeless starving people ate up other kids sleeping outside, would you call for neutering all homeless people. I'm not taking a stand here, just playing the devil's advocate.
Mariyam Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 ^ hamare desh main insaan 'kuttay ki maut' mar rahe hai, aur yahan ICF mein awara kutta bachao andolan shuru hogaya hai :winky: another crazy thing about stray dogs is that they start mounting in public places :giggle: Mera maqsad koi andolan chalu karwana nahi hai. Main to sirf itna keh rahi hoon ki be fair to everyone. Including strays.
suma25 Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I dont think anyone here had yet called for extermination of dogs. So no need to get emotional over it. @Suma: We have incidents in Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore. Must we wait for more? Counting dead babies is fun, isnt it? huh? I didn t say we should wait for it to happen .I just asked you how many more such incidents have happened in mumbai ( where dogs have mauled babies) after that one incident and instead you havent provided me with any one .There are more cases of babies dying due to malnutrition diseases or infant moratlity in and around mumbai then by dog maulings so stop being over hysterical as if dogs are in the hunt looking for babies to feed on. if that were the case people in the jhopdis wouldnt allows dogs to hang around near them.
suma25 Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Yes they did indirectly. Somebody called for stray dogs to be neutered. That is not very different from extermination.There is no next generation. how many more dogs do you need on the streets. pagal ho gaya hain kya?
Mariyam Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 how many more dogs do you need on the streets. pagal ho gaya hain kya? gaya??? :D 'gayi' you mean.
Cricketics Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Animals should be kept in zoo. Thats the best home for them. To hell with anyone asking for them to be left free. Tell Maneka Gandhi to keep the dogs in her house if she is really worried so mucha bout all the dogs in India. These dogs are killing people in India. It's scary seriously.
punjabi_khota Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 LOL@ Maryam :rotfl: Why wouldn't you want to neuter stray dogs ???? You want more stray dogs on the street ? Arre maarna nahi hai to mat maaro..but neuter karna to banta hai . And regarding Food chain, the stray dogs don't come into the picture. There are no stray dogs in western world , so do you think their food chain is disturbed because of that ?
Ram Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 We have to be pragmatic. Its easy to be all idealistic and say that we have treat stray dogs humanely and this and that, but that will involve things like capturing stray dogs, sheltering them etc.. In our country, forget dogs, PEOPLE don’t have places to live. We cannot be spending lakhs of rupees constructing dog shelters. If you think outright killing of these dogs is a bit too extreme, fine, but we gotto do something at least to a point where their population starts to a)stabilize and then b)reduce. If neutering them is the way to go about it, lets do it. Bottomline, I love human rights more than animal rights. I have to live in peace first. I’ll think about dogs and cats later.
Mariyam Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 LOL@ Maryam :rotfl: Why wouldn't you want to neuter stray dogs ???? You want more stray dogs on the street ? Arre maarna nahi hai to mat maaro..but neuter karna to banta hai . And regarding Food chain, the stray dogs don't come into the picture. There are no stray dogs in western world , so do you think their food chain is disturbed because of that ? You can 'lol' all you want. :) The word 'stray' is something that you and me have coined to describe these dogs. To answer your question, no I don't want more strays on the streets. But neither do I want the dogs to be neutered which really is an euphemism for outright extermination. I suggested people adopting one. Surely that is more humane than neutering. BTW: I have seen many many stray dogs in Philadelphia. I must have captured a few on some of the pics I took. I'll put them up if I find them. Read "Oliver Twist" by Charles Dickens. He specifically talks about how poor Oliver had to sleep next to stray dogs after a grueling 10 hour shift cleaning chimneys. The west obviously have had their share of experience with strays. Aaj aap kutton ko neuter karne ki baat kar rahe ho, kal kahoge bhikariyon ko aur homeless logon ko neuter karo. We have to be pragmatic. Its easy to be all idealistic and say that we have treat stray dogs humanely and this and that, but that will involve things like capturing stray dogs, sheltering them etc.. In our country, forget dogs, PEOPLE don’t have places to live. We cannot be spending lakhs of rupees constructing dog shelters. If you think outright killing of these dogs is a bit too extreme, fine, but we gotto do something at least to a point where their population starts to a)stabilize and then b)reduce. If neutering them is the way to go about it, lets do it. Bottomline, I love human rights more than animal rights. I have to live in peace first. I’ll think about dogs and cats later. I am trying to be pragmatic. Being idealistic is saying we should neuter dogs. The right to procreate is a nature given right of every organism on God's green earth. You and me, do not have the right to debar a certain individual or a species from this right. All you say is true, HOWEVER, there are 2 points that you overlook: 1) Humans don't have places to stay, but its not their natural habitat which has been encroached upon by millions of dogs. Its not their natural way of life that has gone for a toss. Ultimately, humans are responsible for the fate of their kind due to this haphazard urbanization. But what about the fauna of th place they call cities? The dog (which we call a stray) is punished for human urbanization without any kind of returns. The entire 'stray' phenomenon is a result of urbanization. If there wasn't such mindless urbanizations, the strays wouldn't be as threatened and they wouldn't have to eat/maul a young kid. That is not the natural behaviour of a dog. 2) You talk about reducing the population of dogs, and that is possibly happening anyways. If you try and see the ratio of people to dogs in say, the geographical area of Mumbai city from 1800 to present, you will find that the number (ratio) has been drastically reduced. I'm bad with numbers and am not going to do this calculation :P Since you like human rights over rights of other species, will you chop off all the trees in the Borivili national park and rehabilitate the homeless there? That is also putting human needs over the needs of others in the food chain. This whole discussion reminds me of a very famous saying " The true character of a nation is displayed in the manner in which they treat their poor, their oppressed and their fauna " - Mahatma Gandhi
nikred Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Aaj aap kutton ko neuter karne ki baat kar rahe ho, kal kahoge bhikariyon ko aur homeless logon ko neuter karo. Hey guys, what category of logical fallacy does this come under? I see many people use this kind of argument, just wanted to know if there is any name for it. Sorry, Mariyam, nothing against you, just wanted to know. :P
Mariyam Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Hey guys, what category of logical fallacy does this come under? I see many people use this kind of argument, just wanted to know if there is any name for it. Sorry, Mariyam, nothing against you, just wanted to know. :P I write a freaking essay and all you quote is the footnote :P That question was metaphoric. Not literal. Neutering strays is the easy way out of a complex solution. Will we apply a superficial approach when tackling problems involving humans?
yoda Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Mariyam, good posts there. We do need to show some compassion towards those poor animals while still protecting ourselves from the vicious ones. Regarding the west, dogs in shelters are up for adoption and if they can't find a home, they are euthanized. http://www.americanhumane.org/about-us/newsroom/fact-sheets/animal-shelter-euthanasia.html Realistically, you can't find a home for every stray animal. So one needs to find a practical solution which can keep strays off the streets forever and yet given them a chance to find a home if possible.
punjabi_khota Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 You can 'lol' all you want. :) The word 'stray' is something that you and me have coined to describe these dogs. To answer your question, no I don't want more strays on the streets. But neither do I want the dogs to be neutered which really is an euphemism for outright extermination. I suggested people adopting one. Surely that is more humane than neutering. BTW: I have seen many many stray dogs in Philadelphia. I must have captured a few on some of the pics I took. I'll put them up if I find them. Read "Oliver Twist" by Charles Dickens. He specifically talks about how poor Oliver had to sleep next to stray dogs after a grueling 10 hour shift cleaning chimneys. The west obviously have had their share of experience with strays. Aaj aap kutton ko neuter karne ki baat kar rahe ho, kal kahoge bhikariyon ko aur homeless logon ko neuter karo. Is that all you got ? First you came up with the lame "food chain" argument, which is obviously wrong. These dogs on the street don't serve any food chain purpose. NONE AT ALL. Comparing with humans ? The irony of your argument couldn't be more stark. Neutering stray dogs arguably helps the homeless, bhikaris and poor the most. The rich people in their cars are the least bothered. The baby who died was a child of the poor. Your Mahatma Gandhi quote makes my argument even stronger. To treat the poor well, we need to get rid of these dogs.
Mariyam Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Is that all you got ? First you came up with the lame "food chain" argument, which is obviously wrong. These dogs on the street don't serve any food chain purpose. NONE AT ALL. Comparing with humans ? The irony of your argument couldn't be more stark. Neutering stray dogs arguably helps the homeless, bhikaris and poor the most. The rich people in their cars are the least bothered. The baby who died was a child of the poor. Your Mahatma Gandhi quote makes my argument even stronger. To treat the poor well, we need to get rid of these dogs. What comparison to humans? You should refer post# 37.... that quote was metaphorical. But clearly that was lost on you. Lame or otherwise, I'm not the one who got 'food chain' into the argument. Neither do I believe, that not having a place in a food chain is a green light for the neutering/extermination of a species. A species has the right to procreate irrespective of its place in a food chain. And in this case, the dogs were an integral part of the local food chain before man came and urbanized the whole place pushing the dogs to the fringe of the food chain. " To treat the poor well, we need to get rid of these dogs" More poor and homeless die every year under the cars of rich/ middle class people like you and me, when they sleep on the roads/footpath and are run over than by bites by stray dogs. And since cars too don't have any place in the food chain, should we get rid of cars for the betterment of the poor :P As ridiculous as my above example sounds, its exactly what you are propagating. Because of some isolated examples of strays biting humans, you suggest all strays should be exterminated. Then be fair and apply that line of thought everywhere.
punjabi_khota Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Now comparing dogs with cars Maybe you come from the land of Disney ?
beetle Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 We all know there is only one B*T*H responsible for the dog menace in this country.
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