EnterTheVoid Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Wasn't singling you out Mariyam. If people take the view .. 'Oh, the animal is going to die anyway, who cares about animal rights', please take your head out from where the sun doesn't shine.
ganeshran Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 hello der ... plants don't have a nervous system and ofcourse a brain that they can feel the pain. JC Bose proved that plants display a physiological response when subjected to trauma and variations in externsal . They display a reaction akin to that of the animal nervous system. He concluded that plants can feel pain. By extension of the pain argument, many scientists have concluded that crustaceans do not feel pain. Is eating and cooking them ok? I understand the arguments against unnecessary cruelty to livestock while transportation and slaughter, which is wrong. But not the argument that consuming plants is fine because they (supposedly) don't feel pain, but killing animals is evil because they feel pain. Both acts put an end to a living being and kill the cell which would otherwise have lived.
akshayxyz Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 hello der ... plants don't have a nervous system and ofcourse a brain that they can feel the pain. How can you claim that brain-CNS is the only system to feel the pain? And crying/weeping etc. are the only way to express pain? Plants have different mechanism to respond to stimuli and interact with their environment. Also, lets say you give some medicine/drug (e.g. morphine or general anesthesia) to an animal/human being - so that he stops feeling the pain - is it OK to kill/torture in that state? ... I like this point - if you have to kill for food, you have to kill for food. It should not matter whether its halal or jhatka. It looks like with halal the animal undergoes longer duration of pain. But it is difficult to prove that the stunned animal would feel less overall pain. After certain time brain would become unconscious anyway. And even in case of stunning, it will be a while before the brain becomes unconscious.
akshayxyz Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 I didn't follow your question. The article says that Halal/Kosher will be forbidden on the grounds of animal cruelty. According to Islamic law, the animal has to be Halal-ed when alive. Carrion is considered haraam. So, if the animal is stunned, it is not entirely in its senses and I don't know how that is categorized. Basically in Halal, 1) The knife shouldn't be seen by the animal. So it isn't scared at the time and can die peacefully. 2) The animal is laid down and the knife is placed on it softly till the jugular/wind pipe are located. 3) The head should be severed by a swift incision near the jugular/ wind pipe area. 4) The blood should be drained out. 5) Then the head should be aligned towards Mecca. I may not be a 100% right here. But this is the rough procedure. These steps remind me of the scene from Avatar - where hunter thanks the hunted to have allowed its body to be taken for food.
gaurav92 Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 I am a 100% Vegetarian and I hate to see animals killed any which way :((. But as someone pointed out, one must turn into a veggie before amending all these laws, its pointless to do this, when you consume a lot of meat, yourself.
Sachinism Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Anyone seen Food, Inc.? Farmers feed cows corn so they produce more milk, but the cows can't digest the corn, so they cut a hole in the side of the cow and take the corn out of the stomach with their hands. Who's gonna stop using dairy products? Don't know how common this is, but it happens
ravishingravi Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 I am seriously thinking of giving up non veg. But this is really a bever ending argument. I dont know how the animal is slaughtered should have any bearing on this issue NV-0rTaJiWw
ravishingravi Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 This was one of the comments on the video blade1994111able That is the most humain way to kill an animal because it doesnt put them through any stress. If the animal gets put through stress, the muscles become tense then the meat is tough and horrible. We owned a butchery and slaughter house. 2 days ago
Desi Cartman Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Halal or jhatka, it's the same thing. The animal is gonna die. It's ironical that people are fighting for the animals about to be slaughtered. I only value opinions of vegetarians on this subject.
cowboysfan Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 yyou have made a conscious decision to eat another animal when you dont have to(unlike our ancestors).does it really matter if its throat is slit and the blood drained out?.i
The Outsider Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Don't you stay in the USA?? Country with one of the highest rates of per capita meat consumption? Are defenseless animals not harmed there, before they are consumed? Some of the numbers in that link are mind boggling - Denmark/USA etc. consume roughly 0.3-0.4 kg meat per person everyday. Given that a some percentage is going to be kids, that's an insane 1 pound of meat per person daily!
EnterTheVoid Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Halal/Kosher, who the hell cares? As long as the animal is killed humanely and is not agonizing in pain for hours and hours on end, not an issue for me.
ravishingravi Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Sree, what is killing "humanely" ? Either ways, you are not asking its permission right ?
EnterTheVoid Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Sree' date=' what is killing "humanely" ? Either ways, you are not asking its permission right ?[/quote'] I've read/seen stories about cattle being stabbed with knives, needlessly beaten/kicked/shocked for no reason, just left to lay there dying on putrid and filthy abbatoir floors for hours and hours on end. Is any of the above really necessary? Probably not.
Mariyam Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Some of the numbers in that link are mind boggling - Denmark/USA etc. consume roughly 0.3-0.4 kg meat per person everyday. Given that a some percentage is going to be kids' date=' that's an insane 1 pound of meat per person daily![/quote'] Good question. Probably depends on how they measure the weight of the meat. Could be that the weight of the bone/fat is included. For eg, if you go to a butcher and ask for 3 kgs of Mutton, he initially weighs 3 kgs and after all the chopping and subsequent cleaning it might come down to only 2.3 kgs. Also, is 0.4kgs of meat really that much? How much on an average does an adult male who weigh 75 kgs eat every day? Or an adult female weighing 50kgs eat every day? I have no idea. But this number doesn't sound unbelievably high. Remember the "Merchant of Venice". Shylock asks Antonio for a pound of flesh. :P Maybe its not that big an amount after all.
ravishingravi Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 I've read/seen stories about cattle being stabbed with knives, needlessly beaten/kicked/shocked for no reason, just left to lay there dying on putrid and filthy abbatoir floors for hours and hours on end. Is any of the above really necessary? Probably not. Nah Sree, me thinks it is just about rationalizing the actual act of killing. As far as I am concerned the cow or the chicken or the lamb dont want to die for us. And we are not seeking their approval.
EnterTheVoid Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Mate, google this: "Australian cattle + Live Export + Indonesia" You need a cast iron stomach to watch the sheer brutality committed to these defenseless animals for absolutely no reason.
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