Brainfade Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Sure, a lot of India does have that mindset thing, but that's not the end of the story. A country with our size & diversity should be able to produce world class athletes provided there are facilities in place to nurture the best talent there is in the country. Sooner or later, the grain will be sorted from the chaff and international success will motivate talented youngsters to pursue sports as a career. You think USA, the all time lord of the Olympics has this super duper fit/healthy/outdoorsy attitude ? Why would it suffer from the world's highest obesity rate & major healthcare problems ? I bet you, with your fitness routine fall sick far lesser than the average Indian or American. Not to mention that most of India is not as economically fortunate - we have bigger priorities than playing sports - like eking out a decent living. It is elitist to suggest otherwise. Some may bring up the example of China. How do they do it? Answer: They operate on a completely different paradigm - govt mandate and compulsion.
Clarke Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 ^^ Which is why i mentioned Bindra's example, the dude is passionate about shooting and spent a fortune from his own pocket to pursue the sport. Gone are the days when running barefoot with a stick in hand on a dirt field was some sort of training for hockey. How many Astro Turf stadiums do we have per state ?
Brainfade Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 ^^ Which is why i mentioned Bindra's example' date=' the dude is passionate about shooting and spent a fortune from his own pocket to pursue the sport. Gone are the days when running barefoot with a stick in hand on a dirt field was some sort of training for hockey. [b']How many Astro Turf stadiums do we have per state ? I remember when they built one at SAI in Bangalore in the early '90s. From all accounts, it was only the 2nd one in all of India. By then, Holland - a nation the size of India's palm - reportedly had 50.
Lurker Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Sure' date=' a lot of India does have that mindset thing, but that's not the end of the story. [b']A country with our size & diversity should be able to produce world class athletes provided there are facilities in place to nurture the best talent there is in the country. Sooner or later, the grain will be sorted from the chaff and international success will motivate talented youngsters to pursue sports as a career. Facilities play their own role. They are far more useful for honing a person's strength and take him to the next level. What they can not do is to create a culture. If you have a fit and sporting culture the facilities will follow, just because you have facilities the culture does not grow on its own. Case in point, the rich places of Mumbai South, Gurgaon etc. No shortage of swimming pools and top gyms, how many top athletes have they produced? You think USA, the all time lord of the Olympics has this super duper fit/healthy/outdoorsy attitude ? Why would it suffer from the world's highest obesity rate & major healthcare problems ? I bet you, with your fitness routine fall sick far lesser than the average Indian or American. The obesity phenomenon is prevalent in US amongst certain section. And yes it is a real danger to the nation. But thats one side of the story. The other side of the story (personal experience) is that I have met Olympic marathoners, Navy Seals, Fitness athletes and many others in my day to day work. It is fairly common, in USA, to work with someone who has worked in Armed Forces. It is fairly common to work with someone who plays tennis and golf regularly. Fairly common to know somebody at work who does serious lifting. How common is it to find any of those amongst Indian diaspora? At home or abroad? There is a reason Internet chats and cricket are two of Indian's favorite pasttime :winky:
f.b.m Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 India suffers in sports because Indians, perhaps more than any other citizens of a country, have this weird tendency to lay responsibility on somebody else and get into argumentative mood for the heck of it. The Western world does good in sports because an average Westerner is fit, healthy and has (generally speaking) a more outdoorsy and sporty mindset. Even the Indians who have moved abroad stick to the same old routine. Lets celebrate spelling bee champions in US, or how 2 Indian origins are Governors now, or how those Sikhs and Gujjus in England are representing England in cricket. You want India to go good in sports, starts with you. Get a fit culture going, do your own contribution, dont worry about others doing it. xxx This. Couldnt have said it better. Apart from the xxx at the end obviously.
Cricketics Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 US is good at every sport ? Kiddin brah ? The only sport they dominate are the ones no one else gives a shyte about. They suck at soccer' date=' have no one in tennis who has won anything since over a decade, obviously don't play cricket.[/quote'] Bryans brothers, perhaps the greatest mens doubles team in tennis history.
Clarke Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Facilities play their own role. They are far more useful for honing a person's strength and take him to the next level. What they can not do is to create a culture. If you have a fit and sporting culture the facilities will follow' date= just because you have facilities the culture does not grow on its own. Case in point, the rich places of Mumbai South, Gurgaon etc. No shortage of swimming pools and top gyms, how many top athletes have they produced? Seriously, a few pools/gyms in Mumbai South should be good enough ? A town of hundred thousand would have those in US. Even in a country with relatively far lesser corruption like the US, you would have a fairly large pool of potential enthusiasts to begin with. There has to be some chaff & grain to begin with to separate the grain :haha: Facilities are more than just pools & gyms, which is why i mentioned astro-turf earlier. What about the dietitians, the fitness experts and all the other support staff ? How many of those potential sportsmen have access to the best of Mumbai's gyms ? Remember our 2007 victory in England ? RP Singh was much better then and on the following Australia tour as our makeshift spearhead, wasn't he ? What was the x factor behind his sudden success ? Not sure if you read this then: http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvind/content/story/305521.html The specific muscle strength training they acted upon for a damn month's county stint, you reckon any of this happens in Ranji for the full time cricketers ? Last i heard, BCCI was planning some IT project on managing player's injuries. But that's just cricket, imagine what it must be like for our local soccer/hockey domestic standards. The obesity phenomenon is prevalent in US amongst certain section. And yes it is a real danger to the nation. But thats one side of the story. The other side of the story (personal experience) is that I have met Olympic marathoners, Navy Seals, Fitness athletes and many others in my day to day work. It is fairly common, in USA, to work with someone who has worked in Armed Forces. It is fairly common to work with someone who plays tennis and golf regularly. Fairly common to know somebody at work who does serious lifting. How common is it to find any of those amongst Indian diaspora? At home or abroad? There is a reason Internet chats and cricket are two of Indian's favorite pasttime :winky: That certain section happens to be a fourth of the population and if you include overweight folks, that's two thirds of the population. Not quite the fit & outdoorsy population and i wouldn't call the vast majority as a certain section. The marathoners, athletes etc used the same system i have been talking about. I bet if you threw them in their early years in India, a vast majority would not really be some of the best in business. What would happen to those that failed badly career wise in either country ? They could manage on welfare in the US or some odd low paying job in India. Which one is better off ? Wouldn't that play on the mind of a prospective Indian athlete ? Glad you mentioned Armed Forces: http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-06/opinion/frum.obesity.military_1_military-personnel-physical-education-military-service?_s=PM:OPINION
Lurker Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Remember our 2007 victory in England ? RP Singh was much better then and on the following Australia tour as our makeshift spearhead, wasn't he ? What was the x factor behind his sudden success ? Not sure if you read this then: http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvind/content/story/305521.html The specific muscle strength training they acted upon for a damn month's county stint, you reckon any of this happens in Ranji for the full time cricketers ? Last i heard, BCCI was planning some IT project on managing player's injuries. But that's just cricket, imagine what it must be like for our local soccer/hockey domestic standards. This is a classic example of what I meant. There are always 7000 excuses made my someone else on somebody else's behalf. Dude, this is 2011. A chap in backwaters of Andhra can get to MIT if he wants to. He can do all the research online. He knows which forms to fill, which forms are obsolete, which tests to do etc. What is so different for a cricketer? You think RP Singh got so fat because Indian Govt is supposed to send him Doctors his way? You got to be kidding me. Sure his stint in county helped him. Basically he was polished to become a final product. I dont have an issue with that at all. My issue is why did RP Singh became fat in the first place?? Lets start taking ownership of us a bit as well, eh? That certain section happens to be a fourth of the population and if you include overweight folks, that's two thirds of the population. Not quite the fit & outdoorsy population and i wouldn't call the vast majority as a certain section. You and I will have to respectfully disagree on that. Lets just agree that in US a fat guy is called fat, in India a fat guy is supposed to be prosperous. The marathoners, athletes etc used the same system i have been talking about. I bet if you threw them in their early years in India, a vast majority would not really be some of the best in business. What would happen to those that failed badly career wise in either country ? They could manage on welfare in the US or some odd low paying job in India. Which one is better off ? Wouldn't that play on the mind of a prospective Indian athlete ? Already have answered this. If economic indeed played a role, 2nd and 3rd Generation Indians would be celebrated QBs in NFL, winning Boston Marathons and championing Toure De France. Instead they are busy winning spelling bees and becoming Governors. Glad you mentioned Armed Forces: http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-06/opinion/frum.obesity.military_1_military-personnel-physical-education-military-service?_s=PM:OPINION Dude, all things considered US Armed forces and cops would be miles ahead of their Indian counterpart in terms of physical fitness. Why are you even going there?? xxx
surajmal Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 There is a reason British had to take up slavery in the new world. The indentured labourers from India weren't paying dividends since physical work and lndians are like oil and water. I kid I kid. East or West India is the best. (to our resident kotwal Vijay Sharma). :two_thumbs_up:
Sooda Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Bryans brothers' date=' perhaps the greatest mens doubles team in tennis history.[/quote'] Not to mention the Williams'
surajmal Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 Not to mention the Williams' If Americans took tennis seriously, they would seriously rape rest of the world. Sampras is still the best tennis player of all time to me. To PK, Soccer is a boring sport. I don't blame Americans if they suck at it (which is more a result of lack of interest) when they have better options to devote time to like : basketball, baseball and football.
Desi Cartman Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 In India people want their kids to play sports as that will make them rich and successful in life, the difference is that in Aus/US people want their kids to take up a sport so the kids are physically active and enjoy the sport. If they excel at it then they play at higher levels and if they dont then they play for fun and fitness as long as they can. Thats the difference.
Yoda-esque Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 If Americans took tennis seriously, they would seriously rape rest of the world. Sampras is still the best tennis player of all time to me. To PK, Soccer is a boring sport. I don't blame Americans if they suck at it (which is more a result of lack of interest) when they have better options to devote time to like : basketball, baseball and football. Two Things : Americans take Tennis seriously.But the ball bashing style of the Americans does not work anymore.Courts have slowed down. Sampras isn't the best player,Federer is.
punjabi_khota Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 If Americans took tennis seriously, they would seriously rape rest of the world. Sampras is still the best tennis player of all time to me. To PK, Soccer is a boring sport. I don't blame Americans if they suck at it (which is more a result of lack of interest) when they have better options to devote time to like : basketball, baseball and football. :hysterical::hysterical: :hysterical: I like the way you think.
Clarke Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 This is a classic example of what I meant. There are always 7000 excuses made my someone else on somebody else's behalf. Dude, this is 2011. A chap in backwaters of Andhra can get to MIT if he wants to. He can do all the research online. He knows which forms to fill, which forms are obsolete, which tests to do etc. What is so different for a cricketer? You think RP Singh got so fat because Indian Govt is supposed to send him Doctors his way? You got to be kidding me. Sure his stint in county helped him. Basically he was polished to become a final product. I dont have an issue with that at all. My issue is why did RP Singh became fat in the first place?? Lets start taking ownership of us a bit as well, eh? Gotcha! :--D You just presented a classic example as well by mentioning MIT since that school is easier to get into than IIT and offers better curriculum options, research facilities & career prospects. System matters mate, however much you may disagree on it. Of course, RP Singh needs to be responsible for himself, in fact i agreed with you first up that our culture is a part of the problem. You too need to acknowledge that every talented individual is not going to be lion hearted and risk it all and then win medals, he will need encouragement by means of a system that does not discourage sports. There's far more to the system than mental blockades. What next, India does not produce enough researchers because we don't have the American culture of excellence in academics ? You and I will have to respectfully disagree on that. Lets just agree that in US a fat guy is called fat, in India a fat guy is supposed to be prosperous. Maybe there was a time of the prosperous fat guy, these days they're heart patients. BTW did you just throw the stats into the trash by ignoring 2 out of 3 Americans ? Already have answered this. If economic indeed played a role, 2nd and 3rd Generation Indians would be celebrated QBs in NFL, winning Boston Marathons and championing Toure De France. Instead they are busy winning spelling bees and becoming Governors. Wanna add some perspective behind the outlandish expectations ? Despite being less than a percent of the US population, there's 3 American Desis who have won an Olympic medal. Not too good as per your expectations but don't tell me that's comparable to India's performance in the Olympics. Dude, all things considered US Armed forces and cops would be miles ahead of their Indian counterpart in terms of physical fitness. Why are you even going there?? xxx Bhai saab, if the US Army of all organizations has problems with the weight of its soldiers, how on earth you can claim of a culture of fitness ? Not that it has anything to do with IA, i never claimed Indians are fitter than Americans. But i'll bet my money on the fact that IA soldiers are nowhere as far off from the American counterparts as our athletes are, and you can thank our defense academies (read system) for that, not our culture.
surajmal Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 :hysterical::hysterical: :hysterical: I like the way you think. Its a wicked MO and considering that Indian Cricket team is about to enter a suck phase, we as fans need to embrace it. We suck because we don't care much for sports. Americans are pretty good at that line of thinking. Now the other person might say that Americans are actually good at sports that they care about. To that an Indian may reply that we too are good at spelling bees and it is a sport since it is featured on ESPN. :aha:
flamy Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I have a theory that the general lack of confidence/assertiveness among Indians is due to its sh!t sports teams and vice versa. To prove that this corollary holds true lets look at few other countries. USA is good at every thing, hence the arrogance. Australia is good at most sports it participates in and you can understand the smugness. Briturds are pretty mediocre, hence the general resigned attitude. Chinese while aren't good at pro sports, they rape olympics, hence their new found confidence. Indians suck at everything, even things where there are plenty of resources and funds available, hence the general loser enivornment across all walks of life. :cantstop:
retterimp Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 blame those lame buddhism/jainism philosophies of non-violence/non-aggressive behavior. if not for that, i wud be eating 10oz of ghosht everyday and be a budding phhasshtt baler.
Lurker Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 This is a rather simple issue (to me) that is fast developing into another thread with multi page responses, which frankly I dont mind but I just see me and you being so poles apart on this that we may have to respectfully disagree. Maybe one more shot on the topic here. You just presented a classic example as well by mentioning MIT since that school is easier to get into than IIT and offers better curriculum options, research facilities & career prospects. System matters mate, however much you may disagree on it. That was not what was meant there, was it? My point was that in this day and age if a person is driven enough he can get enough information to keep fit (in regards to RP Singh's example). A chap from backwaters from Andhra gets to MIT (say) because he is driven enough and is able to gather those informations. To me as a professional it should be easier for someone like RP Singh to understand fitness and diet and nutrition etc than it is for a poor chap to hook into Internet from a local nternet cafe. Of course, RP Singh needs to be responsible for himself, in fact i agreed with you first up that our culture is a part of the problem. You too need to acknowledge that every talented individual is not going to be lion hearted and risk it all and then win medals, he will need encouragement by means of a system that does not discourage sports. There's far more to the system than mental blockades. We are different in approaches here I suppose. I am doing a bottom-up, you are doing a top-down, We both agree to owning responsiblities and having a system in place. I say former drives the latter, you say latter drives the former. No harm done, just different perspectives. Maybe there was a time of the prosperous fat guy, these days they're heart patients. Far from it. In India being fat is not a problem. Period. I often talk about my elder brother who lives in Gurgaon and works in one of the top Hospitals of India. And guess what, he is on the heavier side too. As you can perhaps imagine half of his social circle is made of Doctors, male and female, and they are mostly on heavier side. Everytime I am in India I end up getting my whole blood work done and it is amazing how even the Doctors in India, who just by their jobs should be healthy and hearty, are not. In fact being a Doctors they have enough access to medicines etc so easier to much rather pop a pill. I am not making it personal or anything, and I am sure there are enough Doctors in good shape. But just trying to say if you take a close look around diaspora you start seeing how people who should be the first ones to take responsibility, dont. BTW did you just throw the stats into the trash by ignoring 2 out of 3 Americans ? No I didnt. Its a national issue. Everyone talks about it. What more do you want me to add there? Wanna add some perspective behind the outlandish expectations ? Despite being less than a percent of the US population, there's 3 American Desis who have won an Olympic medal. Not too good as per your expectations but don't tell me that's comparable to India's performance in the Olympics. I know who you are talking about. Its a deja vu discussion I had with Predator 4 years back around Olympics lol. I will try to dig that discussion for you. Not being dismissive or anything. Bhai saab, if the US Army of all organizations has problems with the weight of its soldiers, how on earth you can claim of a culture of fitness ? Because its rather simple. You can put that question to anyone, Indian or non-Indian, on whether an average Indian Armed Forces professional is fitter than American counterpart and see what they say. This is not to beat up Indian Armed Forces. I have a lot of respect for them, lot more than what I have for NRIs like myself. I am not trying to get into an argumentative mode here, which is what it seems we have become. My whole notion is unless as a nation, and society we own responsibility, nothings gonna happen. Starts with me and you is all I am saying. You have all rights to think differently of course. xxx
flamy Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 In India people want their kids to play sports as that will make them rich and successful in life' date=' the difference is that in Aus/US people want their kids to take up a sport so the kids are physically active and enjoy the sport. If they excel at it then they play at higher levels and if they dont then they play for fun and fitness as long as they can. Thats the difference.[/quote'] +++++++++++++ As someone else here and gunner also keeps saying every time we meet, in India we are brought up with the culture of doing something only for the sake of monetary profit and nothing more. People don't aspire to be the best in what they do because in the first place not everybody wants to be a doctor or an engineer. There is a chronic laziness running in the country. After getting out, this was the first thing I observed in myself. And now, when I go back, I see how much I have changed. However, it is ridiculous to generalize that. I have seen some Indian dudes outside India make a really nice life for themselves doing the things they love. It is not a genetic thing, boyo. It is just the environment.
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