rkt.india Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 David Warner too will be found out soon..Every new dog has his day.. Viru too used to have his day..Just wait and watch how Warner gets found out in couple of series.. It's not fashionable to blame IPL. It's REQUIRED to blame IPL as much as possible. Public pressure and high expectancy motivates players to perform. If the uneducated public pressure is only only on players to do well in ODIs and IPL, players too will give 2 fecks to real cricket, whcih is Test cricket..It's not about technique etc. Events like IPL etc. removes the focus from real cricket and rockstar cricketers make merry, think themselves as rockstars and giving 'flipped bird' when they face informed and educated crowd (nd not chewtiya, crazy, gullible, adoring public back home).. and what about Shane Watson, Sanga, Kallis, etc. The only player who could impress at Perth was Kohli, IPL star, Umesh Yadav another who came in limelight because of IPL.
rkt.india Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Ofcourse' date=' he is right..He's right to look for ways and means to get back his outstanding money..[/quote'] There were no T20 batsmen in this team. They all are all time greats of India and they were not trying to play there. They were unable to score runs that lead to their downfall and Indian batsmen are always like that. It happened In 2004 too and Australia won at that time as well and we lost at home soil. There was no IPL at that time and IPL cannot be affecting only Indian players, players like Watson, Warner, Sanga, Kallis are all doing very well. Rather than accepting that our ATGs have passed their sell by date and Viru is an FTB, has always been, and Gambhir has been in poor form for a long time, we are blaming IPL. This will not solve the problem. WE were not winning and dominating teams overseas even before IPL. Problem is bigger than just IPL.
asterix Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 and what about Shane Watson' date=' Sanga, Kallis, etc. The only player who could impress at Perth was Kohli, IPL star, Umesh Yadav another who came in limelight because of IPL.[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: @ IPL star.. Kohli has shown promise long back when IPL was not there.. He's doing well from his U19 days.. Whatareutalking about?
asterix Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Don't compare Indian situation with other teams.. Our's is a unique country..Our players are the most lazy bastard you can get to represent any country.. You only need an IPL to even more corrupt the players..
rkt.india Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: @ IPL star.. Kohli has shown promise long back when IPL was not there.. He's doing well from his U19 days.. Whatareutalking about? so then, it means there was not a single IPL player in this team, and still we are blaming IPL. Though IPL started the same year just after U19 WC was played in 2008 and he was straightaway picked by an IPL team.
rkt.india Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Don't compare Indian situation with other teams.. Our's is a unique country..Our players are the most lazy bastard you can get to represent any country.. You only need an IPL to even more corrupt the players.. But they all know that only performance could get them a place in the team and regarding youngster, only players who have played for India are eligible for auctions and they do not get much if they are picked as catchment players.
asterix Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 so then' date=' it means there was not a single IPL player in this team, and still we are blaming IPL. Though IPL started the same year just after U19 WC was played in 2008 and he was straightaway picked by an IPL team.[/quote'] I'm blaming the IPL for different reason. I'm not getting into batsmen techniques etc. My grouse is that, we already have a cricket chewtiya uneducated, "Bigg Boss" watching public..And then you have the IPL Chairman trying to make this years IPL "even moar attractive & glamorous", where will the focus of the nation then? On IPL only.. When nobody cares about the real cricket, and are happy with some mickymouse ODI & IPL extragavanza..why should the players take Test cricket seriously? When you make stupid statements like "Overseas tours are for honing your skills only..", what more you can expect from the team? The relative security of fat bank balance makes players to skip practice and go for shopping, honeymooning, sight seeing and last but not least, go-carting..
rkt.india Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I'm blaming the IPL for different reason. I'm not getting into batsmen techniques etc. My grouse is that, we already have a cricket chewtiya uneducated, "Bigg Boss" watching public..And then you have the IPL Chairman trying to make this years IPL "even moar attractive & glamorous", where will the focus of the nation then? On IPL only.. When nobody cares about the real cricket, and are happy with some mickymouse ODI & IPL extragavanza..why should the players take Test cricket seriously? When you make stupid statements like "Overseas tours are for honing your skills only..", what more you can expect from the team? The relative security of fat bank balance makes players to skip practice and go for shopping, honeymooning, sight seeing and last but not least, go-carting.. We cannot do anything in this regard. It is the board which will have to sort these things out. There is always pros and cons of things like IPL, but Board also knows that if team India do not do well in tests and ODIs consistently, IPL wont sustain. This is a fact because if we start losing consistently cricket will lost its popularity over time.
Marut Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 You are talking like we were dominating every team away form from home before IPL. We were poor in 90s both ODIs and tests and there was no IPL then. Even before IPL and our ATGs in great form, we never won any series in SA and Aus, so do not live in any delusion that we were great before that overseas. There are always some players who will have the attributes be successful in one format like Yusuf, Tiwary, Uthappa in T20 and some who will be in others like Dravid, VVS, Rahaane, Pujara, Mukund in tests because every individual have different abilities and even if Rahane and Pujara want to become T20 player, they cannot because they do not have those abilities to hit big shots in T20s and play aggressively with high SR consistently. Similarly, there are things which the likes of Yusuf does not have in them to play tests like technique and patience. There are also some players who can play both and they are the most superior players than the other 2 categories I have listed above, the likes of SRT, Viru, Kohli, Rohit Sharma, Gambhir, Manish Pandey come in this category who have the strokes to play aggressively and also they can be hugely successful in longer format of the game as well. This is not just for India. This is relevant for every country. Every country have that kind of players. You are saying because of IPL quality has gone down, but our top 5 batsmen were established players even before IPL and even after IPL, they performed well, but the problem with them was they were aging warriors. The only 2-3 successful players we got here are Kohli, Ashwin, Yadav who first showed in IPL and if you say 2 good innings at Perth are not good enough for Kohli, yes they may not make him great, but those were played in tough conditions against a probing bowling attack and he is on his first tour to Australia and is a test rookie. Regarding Ashwin, yes, he did not take many wickets because he himself said his job given by the team management was to bowl economically and he was not given good field to attack. Also on green tops, you do not expect any spinner to come into play and take bundle of wickets, biggest example is Murlidharan and Harbhajan who have ordinary records in Australia, but still he shown the temperament with the bat as well and he looked the second best batsman for us in first 2 tests. India were always a mediocre team overseas. Now they are beginning to create record lows. A so called top ranked team falling to the abysmal chasm is not a coincidence. The present team has the "ability" to lose to Bangladesh on those wickets. I watched the 92 and 99 Australia series ball by ball , and even when India lost heavily, I never felt India were massacred like the last two tours. But this time we were beaten to a pulp. Even an average player like Manoj Prabhakar had much more grit and ability to tough it out on those wickets, compared to the present day IPL generation stars.
Shunya Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 true...rubbish thinking to blame it on IPL... every country is having their own version of T20 leagues going on...and every country is producing good Young cricketers who play T20 somewhere or the others... jus another way to save the asses of our maharathis...never let anybody come up...and even ridicule them for playing in T20 leagues...
Marut Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 How and why will IPL 'erode' test match skills? I refuse to buy this very oft used cliche. To begin with, all cricketers in India are first and foremost mohalla cricketers. They start their game playing in narrow streets and gullys. Do you think these kids play 5 day tests? No, its always a short game that they play and that is what their initial talent is geared towards. Even school tournaments are not Tests, but limited over games. And for most of the kids (unless they are kids of royalty) the T20 esque formats come naturally to them and not Tests. If anything, the Ranji trophy/Test matches 'erode' the natural game of the youngsters. The second common myth that I've heard on this website is that IPL makes a player pick a franchise over his nation. Thats not an inherent property of the IPL. Its because cricketers, like all others, value money and IPL has money to offer. If Test cricket was lucrative, they'd definitely consider picking playing 5 day tests over the IPL. IPL lasts for a period of 30-45 days and its quite inconceivable that just 14-18 matches of T20 irreversibly change the aptitude and attitude of the batsman forever. That is some specious reasoning. What about David Warner? He did quite well in the IPL and played a good test knock too. IPL hasn't 'eroded' him apparently. Dont jump the gun on Warner. After all he scored a dashing hundred against a not so deadly Indian attack in home conditions. Let him play SA, England etc for two years and then we will see. Secondly, I never said IPL destroys the skills all on its own. If a player like Sachin emerges in India now, it is not because of IPL, but inspite of IPL. There is unusually good talent in the country but the IPL can do nothing to improve the skills, and it can always interfere with the batsmans ability to occupy the crease. Sure, there will be good batsman coming over the years ( it is not surprising given the country's population) but they will always fail to deliver what they would have, in test cricket, without the IPL tamasha. All other countries India plays with, have population less than 10% of India, still produce players who constantly outperform us. The IPL will likely diminish India's newly acquired prowess in test cricket, especially under overseas conditions.
BeautifulGame Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 India were always a mediocre team overseas. Now they are beginning to create record lows. A so called top ranked team falling to the abysmal chasm is not a coincidence. The present team has the "ability" to lose to Bangladesh on those wickets. I watched the 92 and 99 Australia series ball by ball ' date=' and even when India lost heavily, I never felt India were massacred like the last two tours. But this time we were beaten to a pulp.[b'] Even an average player like Manoj Prabhakar had much more grit and ability to tough it out on those wickets, compared to the present day IPL generation stars. Sachin Dravid Laxman and Sehwag are IPL generated stars now :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: The comical blaming of IPL is reaching new levels now :hysterical:
Marut Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I did not refer to Sachin or Dravid or other pre IPL players. Their technique has been honed too well to be altered or damaged by the IPL, but they are aging and their IPL generated replacements are struggling. Till now the damage caused by IPL has been minimal and we will see more of it in the days to come, and I guess it started with the the WI tour ( where we struggled to beat a lowly WI side) and got confirmed during the English and Aussie tours.
indiefan Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 The guys are not motivated enough because of IPL and better financial situation. But that doesn't mean that the selectors couldn't put up a team that is talented to play Test Cricket. With the right team, we could have done much better. My 2 cents.
BeautifulGame Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I did not refer to Sachin or Dravid or other pre IPL players. Their technique has been honed too well to be altered or damaged by the IPL' date=' but they are aging and their IPL generated replacements are struggling. Till now the damage caused by IPL has been minimal and we will see more of it in the days to come, and I guess it started with the the WI tour ( where we struggled to beat a lowly WI side) and got confirmed during the English and Aussie tours.[/quote'] Please reread ur earlier post (#33). U said our players didnt show any commitment in our last 2 overseas tours like we did(including Prabakar) previously in 90's. Unless u believe the failure and lack of application by senior batsmen (like Saxhin Dravid Laxman Sehwag) arent the main reason for our failure in these 2 tours then ofcourse u are referring to them. If anything the so called IPL stars have shown lot more fight than our seniors in both these series.
asterix Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Please reread ur earlier post (#33). U said our players didnt show any commitment in our last 2 overseas tours like we did(including Prabakar) previously in 90's. Unless u believe the failure and lack of application by senior batsmen (like Saxhin Dravid Laxman Sehwag) arent the main reason for our failure in these 2 tours then ofcourse u are referring to them. If anything the so called IPL stars have shown lot more fight than our seniors in both these series. Agree the senior batsmen failed.. I feel that's due too IPL. IMO, they've lost faith in the system and aren't motivated enough (Selectors can drop them if you wish or they might now retire themselves as time has arrived) to bear the burdon when they see young players are not that disciplined, hard-working, and far ahead of themselves, geting into the test team. It used to be pretty hard to break in the Test team in early days. Now few performances in IPL can get you in..Also, when they see young players are making huge lot's of money, making their own brands/market, without performing at the international level for even 2-3 years, could be de-motivating for the senior generation.. You blame the 3 senior batsmen (Sahin, VVS & Dravid)..What about next senior players like Viru,Gauti, Dhoni etc. They themselves arent setting the track ablaze and leading from the front..And that's mostly because the hunger to perform is missing. They know, once they get back to Home wickets, they'll somehow start making runs, and chewtiya public has short memories anyway..
BeautifulGame Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Agree the senior batsmen failed.. I feel that's due too IPL. IMO, they've lost faith in the system and aren't motivated enough (Selectors can drop them if you wish or they might now retire themselves as time has arrived) to bear the burdon when they see young players are not that disciplined, hard-working, and far ahead of themselves, geting into the test team. It used to be pretty hard to break in the Test team in early days. Now few performances in IPL can get you in..Also, when they see young players are making huge lot's of money, making their own brands/market, without performing at the international level for even 2-3 years, could be de-motivating for the senior generation.. Not a single youngster has undeservedly debuted in test cricket based on IPL performances.So thats simply not true. Its the same Sachin Tendulkar who signed millions of sponsership deals when his previous generation of cricketers struggled to have a decent income.So its laughable to say they get de motivated by younger generation making money when they benifitted by the same system. Just because test cricket cant generate money to match T20 or IPL doesn't mean T20 specialists shouldnt get paid good money.This isnt some communist country. Cricketers like Sachin Dravid and Laxman earn far more times than an average footballer.Does that mean we should blame Sachin for the state of our football team? You blame the 3 senior batsmen (Sahin, VVS & Dravid)..What about next senior players like Viru,Gauti, Dhoni etc. They themselves arent setting the track ablaze and leading from the front..And that's mostly because the hunger to perform is missing. They know, once they get back to Home wickets, they'll somehow start making runs, and chewtiya public has short memories anyway.. I also blamed Shewag too.Frankly Dhoni has been criticized for his captaincy and i dont expect WK to play winning innings.Though he deserves to be criticized for his failures in 2nd inns of Perth for his pathetic shot selection. Gambhir deserves some slack though.He was outstanding in both New zealand and South Africa and was ravaged by injuries in England.And has done decnetly for a new comer in Australia.
vvvslaxman Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 They will continue skipping test series due to IPL under the pretext of "injury" and "rest".
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