chainsmoker1985 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 Sabby2013 and rkt.India are in :five: mode or I should say they are like :friends: this. :phehehe:
CG Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 You seem to have very little hands-on knowledge about India's sporting world and the mentality that is prevalent there. You come across as an armchair "expert". In our country it is often thought to be a derogatory step to think and plan in sports and it is thought to be a much nobler approach to just be natural. The pace bowlers are especially susceptible to this attitude. You simply do no comprehend what I am trying to say in my original post. I am not expecting a McGrath or Steyn overnight. As I have repeatedly written -- I want Umesh to get a lot of encouragement and support. If he gets hit for runs I have no problem but the approach to becoming a good and genuinely quick strike bowler should be proper. A brainless approach does not help in any field. Most great pacers have a good cricketing brain. Umesh has a lot of talent and has the ability to learn. But he is encouraged to take a brainless approach. If you can't understand the difference in approach between a Pattinson and an Umesh then you are not worth debating with. :hysterical::hysterical: Tum kya wheel chair expert ho,In cricket one of our problems has been we dot allow natural bowling actions or styles to continue,Coaches at each level try to change it . Every Body has different methods ,Pattinson and umesh are different bowlers from different teams who play on different conditions,Umesh style has been what he learned at First class and he has been pretty good with it,so how it has suddenly become brainless after 2 odis ,just because he went for runs :giggle::giggle:.After a few failures even the great pattinson will be questioned.Great players who advocate natural methods are not fools.
chainsmoker1985 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 dear noob, asking to pitch up the ball at gabba, go look at ben hilfenhaus pitch map againt india at gabba. 4 out his 5 wicket came from short ball. aa jate hai pata nahi kahan se test match ki commentary sun ke ,aur sochne lagte hain ki hum toh expert ho gaye fast bowling ke. O bhai, tu rehne de. If you think, pitching the ball up on Australian pitches is mere stupidity, then I think you r the most stupid person on this forum. Let me explain you a simple logic of length in different conditions which I learned about 8 yrs ago, aur ye main koi commentary sun ke nahi bol raha. In subcontinent pitches where bounce is very less, the seamers should pitch the ball just short of a length or khinchi hui length par. On Australian pitches where there is lot more bounce and a little bit of natural moment occasionally, the bowler should take the same length a lil bit forward. E.g. if a good length in subcontinent conditions is about 7 m, then the good length in Australian or South African conditions is around 5 m.
bajrang Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 O bhai, tu rehne de. If you think, pitching the ball up on Australian pitches is mere stupidity, then I think you r the most stupid person on this forum. Let me explain you a simple logic of length in different conditions which I learned about 8 yrs ago, aur ye main koi commentary sun ke nahi bol raha. In subcontinent pitches where bounce is very less, the seamers should pitch the ball just short of a length or khinchi hui length par. On Australian pitches where there is lot more bounce and a little bit of natural moment occasionally, the bowler should take the same length a lil bit forward. E.g. if a good length in subcontinent conditions is about 7 m, then the good length in Australian or South African conditions is around 5 m. aroud 5 meter you say?? akal ke dushman. count how many balls ben hilfenhaus bowled at around 5 meter. only 2 . he kept on bowling at 8 meter and got 5 wickets. ab yaa toh use bowling nahi ati ya tujhe ghante ka pata nahi.
Old guy Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 dont ca;; each other noob or akal ke dushman plz ? yes in australia u do have to pitch it fuller but its when there is little bit of help and more so in tests if there is no movement bowling full is suicide in australia as ball comes on bat and its very easy for batsman.. see in perth i would ve liked him to bowl full .. but here it was all right...im sure iwth new ball he would go for less runs but maybe team wants warner to not get even 1 lose ball.. and create pressure maybe thats why they are opening with tundlers :P
express bowling Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 ,In cricket one of our problems has been we dot allow natural bowling actions or styles to continue,Coaches at each level try to change it . Every Body has different methods ,Pattinson and umesh are different bowlers from different teams who play on different conditions,Umesh style has been what he learned at First class and he has been pretty good with it,so how it has suddenly become brainless after 2 odis ,just because he went for runs :giggle::giggle:.After a few failures even the great pattinson will be questioned.Great players who advocate natural methods are not fools. Congratulations ! :hatsoff: You continue to miss my point and are still giving stereotypical replies not pertinent to what I have said. Where have I talked of changing bowling actions ? Umesh has a decent action that generates extreme pace and swing. Why would anybody change that ! I am talking of the mix of deliveries that a bowler should bowl in a given condition or to a particular batsman. When one is new and learning it is better to try fewer things and stick to a basic plan like bowling around the off stump and at a good length puntuated by a few quick bouncers. If it is the death overs then trying to bowl yorkers and slower balls mostly. ( Umesh has a good yorker ) Umesh has tried bowling a lot of different types of deliveries doing which he has not mastered yet. If he wants to move the ball both ways in the same over, especially in an ODI, then he needs to practice a lot before he actually tries it. In a nutshell I am talking of trying fewer things and sticking to the basics when things are going wrong especially in an ODI. He can go for variations in some test match spells, where the batsmen are less aggressive or after he has practiced them a lot more. It is given that Umesh and Pattinson would have different styles of bowling given their different backgrounds, heights, personalities, abilities etc. That is not what I am talking about. I wrote about the more objectiive approach to bowling by Pattinson, Starc, De Lange etc. I repeat ... I am not talking about a couple of ODI performances and it does not matter if Umesh gets hit. ( I had specifically mentioned this point yet you are stereotypically repeating this to prove your consistency in misinterpretation :hatsoff: ) Even Pattinson may get hit on a bad day or two but generally the Aussies and the Saffers have a much more objective, disciplined and scientific approach to pace bowling and that is why they have produced so many strike bowlers.
Old guy Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Congratulations ! :hatsoff: You continue to miss my point and are still giving stereotypical replies nor pertinent to what I have said. Where have I talked of changing bowling actions ? Umesh has a decent action that generates extreme pace and swing. Why would anybody change that ! I am talking of the mix of deliveries that a bowler should bowl in a given condition or to a particular batsman. When one is new and learning it is better to try fewer things and stick to a basic plan like bowling around the off stump and at a good length puntuated by a few quick bouncers. If it is the death overs then trying to bowl yorkers and slower balls mostly. ( Umesh has a good yorker ) Umesh has tried bowling a lot of different types of deliveries doing which he has not mastered yet. If he wants to move the ball both ways in the same over, especially in an ODI, then he needs to practice a lot before he actually tries it. In a nutshell I am talking of trying fewer things and sticking to the basics when things are going wrong especially in an ODI. He can go for variations in some test match spells, where the batsmen are less aggressive or after he has practiced them a lot more. It is given that Umesh and Pattinson would have different styles of bowling given their different backgrounds, height, personalities, ability etc. That is not what I am talking about. I wrote about the more objectiive approach to bowling by Pattinson, Starc, De Lange etc. I repeat ... I am not talking about a couple of ODI performances and it does not matter if Umesh gets hit. ( I had specifically mentioned this point yet you are stereotypically repeating this to prove your consistency in misinterpretation :hatsoff: ) Even Pattinson may get hit on a bad day or two but generally the Aussies and the Saffers have a much more objective, disciplines and scientifiv approach to pace bowling and that is why they have produced so many strike bowlers. +1000
zen Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Yadav is talented .... Let's give him some space to develop
Old guy Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Sabby2013 and rkt.India are in :five: mode or I should say they are like :friends: this. :phehehe: i thought even we were :friends: :((
Laaloo Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 He's not as big as a loser as Sreesanth is or will ever be.
CG Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Congratulations ! :hatsoff: You continue to miss my point and are still giving stereotypical replies not pertinent to what I have said. Where have I talked of changing bowling actions ? Umesh has a decent action that generates extreme pace and swing. Why would anybody change that ! I am talking of the mix of deliveries that a bowler should bowl in a given condition or to a particular batsman. When one is new and learning it is better to try fewer things and stick to a basic plan like bowling around the off stump and at a good length puntuated by a few quick bouncers. If it is the death overs then trying to bowl yorkers and slower balls mostly. ( Umesh has a good yorker ) Umesh has tried bowling a lot of different types of deliveries doing which he has not mastered yet. If he wants to move the ball both ways in the same over, especially in an ODI, then he needs to practice a lot before he actually tries it. In a nutshell I am talking of trying fewer things and sticking to the basics when things are going wrong especially in an ODI. He can go for variations in some test match spells, where the batsmen are less aggressive or after he has practiced them a lot more. It is given that Umesh and Pattinson would have different styles of bowling given their different backgrounds, heights, personalities, abilities etc. That is not what I am talking about. I wrote about the more objectiive approach to bowling by Pattinson, Starc, De Lange etc. I repeat ... I am not talking about a couple of ODI performances and it does not matter if Umesh gets hit. ( I had specifically mentioned this point yet you are stereotypically repeating this to prove your consistency in misinterpretation :hatsoff: ) Even Pattinson may get hit on a bad day or two but generally the Aussies and the Saffers have a much more objective, disciplined and scientific approach to pace bowling and that is why they have produced so many strike bowlers. You continue to miss my point too,Teams have diff guidlance and roles for diff bowlers,the same australians allowed M.j to bowl his own style they knew what his strength was and h,Australians and sa are certainly have a more planned approach still its too early for this kind of threads regarding yadav.If the team wants him to bowl as a strike bowler looking for wickets they certainly should have seen something and about few odis thats the point of the thread.
Tiger80 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 It is too early to call Yadav a failure or loser
NareshK Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Just a couple of weeks ago, he was a great talent. After a couple of failures, he is a loser. This is the reaction of typical Indian fans.:hysterical:
express bowling Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 You continue to miss my point too' date='Teams have diff guidlance and roles for diff bowlers,the same australians allowed M.j to bowl his own style they knew what his strength was and h,Australians and sa are certainly have a more planned approach still its too early for this kind of threads regarding yadav.If the team wants him to bowl as a strike bowler looking for wickets they certainly should have seen something and about few odis thats the point of the thread.[/quote'] I think the title of this thread by the OP is causing a lot of confusion. He should change the title. Yadav is the best pace talent we have had in years and remains the brightest prospect regarding becoming a genuine strike bowler. He is far from being a loser. My posts have been regarding how to utilize the talent of Umesh Yadav properly and not regarding mindlessly criticizing him for a couple of bad performances which are bound to happen to anybody. Srinath and Zaheer have been 2 of our best pacers in the last 20 yrs. Both were talented but it took them 6 to 7 years to become strike bowlers. Generally, world class strike bowlers ( pacers ) become so between 1 to 4 years of their starting international cricket. This difference is due to the difference in approach by our cricketing fraternity towards pace bowlers and the guidance, direction and support they receive. Bowling coaches are bad, team management is cluless as to what direction they would give to a budding pacer, they are given bad field settings, overbowled, underbowled, not given confidence etc. etc. Umesh has the potential to become a strike bowler within 1 to 2 years if handled properly with proper guidance. He should be encouraged to bowl quickly and objectively rather than randomly and handled properly. I don't want him to become another Zaheer or Srinath and take 6 to 7 yrs to become a strike bowler. That is what I am talking about. You have talked about teams having different guidances and roles for different pacers. They surely do but the Indian team managements have lacked the ability to gauge what guidance a young bowler needs and what role he should be given, That is why we are the only experienced test team in the world without any 'pacer with an average of under 30 and taken 100+ test wickets' in its history.
chainsmoker1985 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 aroud 5 meter you say?? akal ke dushman. count how many balls ben hilfenhaus bowled at around 5 meter. only 2 . he kept on bowling at 8 meter and got 5 wickets. ab yaa toh use bowling nahi ati ya tujhe ghante ka pata nahi. Mere dost, why don't have a cup of tea or coffee, dimaag ki batti jag jayegi? I was just giving you an example, I didn't say that 5 meter length is the ideal length for each and every bowler everywhere. I meant to say that whatever works for you in subcontinent conditions, it will go further by just 1 or 2 yards in bouncing, seaming conditions. Apart from this, let me prove my very first point of our conversation, that in bouncing seaming conditions, its better to pitch the ball up. You will have to check out these links and I am phrasing couple of important points from each article. http://www.rediff.com/cricket/slide-show/slide-show-1-australia-tour-india-i-took-wickets-but-gave-runs-umesh-yadav/20111226.htm He told me that in India you could get away by bowling back of length stuff. Here in Australia, it's important to bowl a fuller length," Yadav told reporters http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/539583.html Australia's new bowling coach, Craig McDermott, has been drumming it into his students that they need to get the ball up there and swinging. The results are now starting to show. Ryan Harris reaped the benefits of a fuller length against Tasmania, against whom he took nine wickets before the South Africa tour http://www.rediff.com/cricket/report/slide-show-1-india-england-interview-i-am-best-when-i-pitch-the-ball-up-broad-bikash-mohapatra/20110804.htm "I am best when I pitch the ball up and get some movement," he explained, adding, "I have bowled a slightly fuller length in these two Tests and the ball has swung. Broad told http://sampsoncollins.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/cardiff-day-one-%E2%80%93-pitch-it-up-broady/ yes Dilshan pounced on anything drivable. But if you donÃÕ ask you donÃÕ get, and BroadÃÔ short-pitched stuff has been like the teenager who turns up to the school-disco in Black Tie and then gets aggressively smashed in the corner by himself. http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/534602.html Trent Copeland 'You've got to pitch it up, no matter where you are' The answer is simple my friend- if you don't ask questions, you wont get answer. If you don't risk going for runs, you won't get wickets. Against shortish length, an intl level batsman gets extra time to adjust and defend or tuck it around the corner for a single. Now, whether it will be good for Yadav to pitch the ball, that's whole different issue. But yes, 'pitching it up' is always a better option that has been proved here. And you can now sit down on that ghanta which you were talking about and keep enjoying.
bajrang Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Mere dost' date=' why don't have a cup of tea or coffee, dimaag ki batti jag jayegi? I was just giving you an example, I didn't say that 5 meter length is the ideal length for each and every bowler everywhere. [b']I meant to say that whatever works for you in subcontinent conditions, it will go further by just 1 or 2 yards in bouncing, seaming conditions. . lol u sure about that? okay then lets look at subcontinent bowling length. here is vinay kumar bowling to england in delhi india. took 4 for 30. here is vinay kumar against srilanka in adeleide australia. took 3 for 46. both place he bowled around 8 meters and took wickets. i didnt see change in length. all that crappy link you posted they are talking about length in test matches. length in test matches is different to ODI , you dont have feilding restrictions "powerplays" like ODI in test, you have many slips in test match even after the 10th over, red ball swings more and swing for longer duration. you can afford getting hit for few boundaries cause run targets are bigger. i know the importance of pitching it up, but that seems to be only thing you know.
Old guy Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 lol u sure about that? okay then lets look at subcontinent bowling length. here is vinay kumar bowling to england in delhi india. took 4 for 30. here is vinay kumar against srilanka in adeleide australia. took 3 for 46. both place he bowled around 8 meters and took wickets. i didnt see change in length. all that crappy link you posted they are talking about length in test matches. length in test matches is different to ODI , you dont have feilding restrictions "powerplays" like ODI in test, you have many slips in test match even after the 10th over, red ball swings more and swing for longer duration. you can afford getting hit for few boundaries cause run targets are bigger. i know the importance of pitching it up, but that seems to be only thing you know. actuallly he was a touch fuller..here
rkt.india Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 actuallly he was a touch fuller..here but he has got wickets on balls at 6-8 meters...look at the pitch map, even Brett Lee is hit today and he is an ODI legend.
bajrang Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 actuallly he was a touch fuller..here out of 5 ball bowled fuller 2 went for boundries.so wasn't really a good idea on his part. mayebe death over bowling, few close to batsmen body and few away from batsmen trying to make room. otherwise groping is same on both occasion, around 8 meter.
Old guy Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 out of 5 ball bowled fuller 2 went for boundries.so wasn't really a good idea on his part. mayebe death over bowling, few close to batsmen body and few away from batsmen trying to make room. otherwise groping is same on both occasion, around 8 meter. eh.. well every ground in aistralia is diff check bowler's length in perth.. (since its very famous) it will def be fuller.. or on a helpful track but full does not mean yorker full just pitching it up a bit and letting it swing. can u show us zaheer's pitch map ? :winky:
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