India vs England 2012

[kubrickian]

He has definitely earned his place with his performance in FC. If the selectors dont give value to them, then what's the point in even playing Ranji trophy and what message does that give to other players ? There have been other players who got selected on account of some tukka knocks in IPL. This guy has done much better than them. Now whether he will translate these chances into good performances in test cricket, one will have to wait and see by giving him a long enough run. But we shouldnt expect a debutante to perform miracles and score a ton or take a fifer in his first game itself, like many people do at ICF.

[CG]

He has definitely earned his place with his performance in FC. If the selectors dont give value to them' date=' then what's the point in even playing Ranji trophy and what message does that give to other players ? [b']There have been other players who got selected on account of some tukka knocks in IPL. This guy has done much better than them. Now whether he will translate these chances into good performances in test cricket, one will have to wait and see by giving him a long enough run. But we shouldnt expect a debutante to perform miracles and score a ton or take a fifer in his first game itself, like many people do at ICF.

which batsman has been selected in tests based on ipl.

[kubrickian]

which batsman has been selected in tests based on ipl.

Raina, Yuvraj, Vijay are selected mostly based on their IPL, ODI records and good relations with captain and board. There's nothing which suggests they will do well in tests.

[Muloghonto]

1.You have to look at the quality of attacks and pitches he has scored agianst.

Indeed. That is a part of the development process too. I am quite willing to give a player who has demonstrated the temperament and desire to hang around and grind out a shot at #6, with all the intangiables he comes with, even if he is suspect against good fast bowling.

3.Tiwary has been consistent for 2 seasons and was ahead of him.Even Rohit sharma has been consistent in Domestic cricket and rahane too average nearly 60.

Tiwary does not have the temperament. Rohit does not either, neithe does Kohli (though Kohli has fight in him and he is a honest trier all the time, so i am willing to give him a couple more series). We do not want a player at #6 who is good for a pretty little half century in half a session. I would prefer a technically limited but a sticky guy at #6, particularly if he is to follow strokeplayers and come before a strokeplayer like Dhoni. Tiwary deserves a chance at a place where he is likeliest to succeed, namely #4/ or 5. His chance will come, Tendu is gonna go pretty soon, we all know that.

4.Against Fast bowlers he hangs back in the crease expecting short bowling and does not go forward. 5.He does not Look like a proper batsman.

Again, have you ever watched Chanderpaul in the 1990s playing against Australia or England ? Batting is not about scoring regularly, playing true to merit all the time, looking pretty, etc. etc. You need to be realistic here and ask yourself what you require from a #6 ? What is going to be good enough ? The fact is and i see you are consistently ignoring this, tell us about one player in the list you've mentioned who has the temperament and the instinct to shut shop in the middle ? Those who are questioning Jadeja's utility to the team ( mind you, i am only asking that he be given a chance- he has earned it quite easily. Again, 3 triples in 15 months in a team that has only one middle order bat with 50 test match experience, is as good a case as any), please tell us, who are we to look at for a job that requires 30 off of 100 balls ?

6.He is no long term investment as he will struggle outside sc .

I would've said the same thing about Ganguly. but he wasn't exactly a liability overseas except for two seasons at a stretch in the early 2000s. Point is, we need to reward guys like Jadeja, Rahane, Tiwary, etc. In my mind, Jadeja has staked a stronger claim than anyone else at the moment and we need to recognize the fact that this is the right time for us to try Jadeja. If not next test, then definitely to start against Australia (I believe we play them next, no?).

7.he does not handle pressure well in odis so in tests he may do the same.

Correct. Jadeja is not a good pressure candidate in ODIs. Because he has a test like mentality towards batting ( first thought is to go back and block if necessary or play straight. I like his intial movements) and as such, is not the kind of guy to demand strokes in a hurry ( as LOI pressure situations tend to do). Such guys are good for shutting shop and have the temperament to put up 15 in 50 balls after the team is 40/4 and take them to the end of the days play. Guess who else was a horrible chaser in ODIs circa 1997/98 when he first came around ? If you'd guessed Dravid, you'd be doing fine. But then again, Dravid didn't come with the instincts to pick up something fractionally short/wide/full and clobber it when situation called for it either. he came with the instinct to 'block first, ask questions later'. Again, we need a player like that and i hope to see Jadeja display such qualities.

[rkt.india]

Raina' date=' Yuvraj, Vijay are selected mostly based on their IPL, ODI records and good relations with captain and board. There's nothing which suggests they will do well in tests.[/quote'] Vijay was selected in 2008 even beforre he had done anything in IPL.

[kubrickian]

6.He is no long term investment as he will struggle outside sc .

I can guarantee you if you are looking for a batsman who has played his whole life in SC to suddenly learn the ability to play well in England or South Africa, you are not going to find many. Even Pujara who is touted as a big talent looked all at sea in SA and will struggle for a while in overseas conditions because of lack of exposure. Kohli who made his debut in West Indies couldnt score anything and was sacked from the team. Raina failed miserably in England. How are these guys better than Jadeja ? Indian batsmen have to play lots of A tours, play in county cricket and also play tests there to get used to those conditions. This is how Sachin, Dravid, VVS got better. Asking them to do well overseas right away is like asking Bairstow to score a ton in conditions like we had at Mumbai. Not going to happen.

[vamos_rafa]

I can guarantee you if you are looking for a batsman who has played his whole life in SC to suddenly learn the ability to play well in England or South Africa, you are not going to find many. Even Pujara who is touted as a big talent looked all at sea in SA and will struggle for a while in overseas conditions because of lack of exposure. Kohli who made his debut in West Indies couldnt score anything and was sacked from the team. Raina failed miserably in England. How are these guys better than Jadeja ? Indian batsmen have to play lots of A tours, play in county cricket and also play tests there to get used to those conditions. This is how Sachin, Dravid, VVS got better. Asking them to do well overseas right away is like asking Bairstow to score a ton in conditions like we had at Mumbai. Not going to happen.

Pujara was not at sea. It was a difficult wicket to bat on and he survived against top class bowling for more than an hour or so and knitted an important p'ship with Laxman. Just that he does not have the runs to show. Also, I am not sure how many A tours did Sachin go to. But, agree to the other bit. But, Jadeja, atleast by the looks of it, does not look like someone who can survive the grinds of test cricket. Rest, I shall be happy to eat my own words.

[Muloghonto]

We won't know about his technique till we give him a try. The route forward for him is either to get the monkey off the back by having a decent few tests before going overseas or to play A tours. IMO, i am leaning towards giving him a shot, because his confidence has gotto be at a peak due to his run scoring recently. Trust me, as a player, it does not matter against whom you score a triple, it builds your confidence.

[SLICKR392]

If you judge a player on his performance in the last season then he has totally deserved it.

[CG]

Indeed. That is a part of the development process too. I am quite willing to give a player who has demonstrated the temperament and desire to hang around and grind out a shot at #6, with all the intangiables he comes with, even if he is suspect against good fast bowling. Tiwary does not have the temperament. Rohit does not either, neithe does Kohli (though Kohli has fight in him and he is a honest trier all the time, so i am willing to give him a couple more series). We do not want a player at #6 who is good for a pretty little half century in half a session. I would prefer a technically limited but a sticky guy at #6, particularly if he is to follow strokeplayers and come before a strokeplayer like Dhoni. Tiwary deserves a chance at a place where he is likeliest to succeed, namely #4/ or 5. His chance will come, Tendu is gonna go pretty soon, we all know that. Again, have you ever watched Chanderpaul in the 1990s playing against Australia or England ? Batting is not about scoring regularly, playing true to merit all the time, looking pretty, etc. etc. You need to be realistic here and ask yourself what you require from a #6 ? What is going to be good enough ? The fact is and i see you are consistently ignoring this, tell us about one player in the list you've mentioned who has the temperament and the instinct to shut shop in the middle ? Those who are questioning Jadeja's utility to the team ( mind you, i am only asking that he be given a chance- he has earned it quite easily. Again, 3 triples in 15 months in a team that has only one middle order bat with 50 test match experience, is as good a case as any), please tell us, who are we to look at for a job that requires 30 off of 100 balls ? I would've said the same thing about Ganguly. but he wasn't exactly a liability overseas except for two seasons at a stretch in the early 2000s. Point is, we need to reward guys like Jadeja, Rahane, Tiwary, etc. In my mind, Jadeja has staked a stronger claim than anyone else at the moment and we need to recognize the fact that this is the right time for us to try Jadeja. If not next test, then definitely to start against Australia (I believe we play them next, no?). Correct. Jadeja is not a good pressure candidate in ODIs. Because he has a test like mentality towards batting ( first thought is to go back and block if necessary or play straight. I like his intial movements) and as such, is not the kind of guy to demand strokes in a hurry ( as LOI pressure situations tend to do). Such guys are good for shutting shop and have the temperament to put up 15 in 50 balls after the team is 40/4 and take them to the end of the days play. Guess who else was a horrible chaser in ODIs circa 1997/98 when he first came around ? If you'd guessed Dravid, you'd be doing fine. But then again, Dravid didn't come with the instincts to pick up something fractionally short/wide/full and clobber it when situation called for it either. he came with the instinct to 'block first, ask questions later'. Again, we need a player like that and i hope to see Jadeja display such qualities.

1.He rarely has grind out against good quality fast bowling in odis or t20s even.He Just does not have it and will play a rash shot and get out. 2.:hysterical::hysterical: tiwary,rohit,kohli do not have temperament .These guys average near 60in fc . 3.:hysterical: No 6 is not only to defend .No 6 is a position which needs a stroke player like vvs who can accelerate till second new ball and also technically sound to face the second new ball. 4.Jadeja does not have a stronger claim than those. 5.Do not compare dravid with jadeja. All in all you either are trolling here or you have not watched jadeja bat or you have not watched jadeja bat.

[Muloghonto]

1.He rarely has grind out against good quality fast bowling in odis or t20s even.He Just does not have it and will play a rash shot and get out.

Again, i think this is because he is an inherently defensive mindset player. You did not answer my question-have you watched Dravid from his first two-three years of ODIs (i believe he finally got the hang of it after 2.5 years of ODI cricket) ? If so, then you must know that the above really applied to Dravid too. My point is, an inherently defensive minded batsman is not to be judged batting lower middle order in ODIs.

2.:hysterical::hysterical: tiwary,rohit,kohli do not have temperament .These guys average near 60in fc .

Err Rohit and Tiwary most definitely do not have the temperament, Kohli is suspect too. Again, don't wave me just stats, realize that there are plenty of strokeplayers who make hay at lower levels but do not have the temperament to get stuck in and grind when necessary. What have you learnt this series about Kohli ? That he is not the man (yet) to say 'okay, team in trouble at 100/3, time to score only on bad deliveries and get to 50 in 150 balls and then take it from there'. I do not think you realize what temperament means or i am alluding to, for Rohit is the archetype of lacking test match temperament- a wonderful player who simply does something stupid if you keep him quiet for a while.

3.:hysterical: No 6 is not only to defend .No 6 is a position which needs a stroke player like vvs who can accelerate till second new ball and also technically sound to face the second new ball.

VVS was never the accelerator, atleast not right off the start. He mostly was a dour blocker till he got 20-25 runs and then unfurled a few drives and flicks and then got going. I can show you piles and piles of example where VVS ended the day/session having scored 30 off of 90 balls and taken India from 50-3/70-4 to 150/200-ish with the loss of one wicket or none. That VVS was a wonderful strokeplayer was a bonus. That he every now and then went into 'God mode' and scored merrily against the best attacks with their tails up, is a huge bonus. But what made VVS the cornerstone of our lower-middle order was his dour starts and no-nonsense play when situation demanded a shutting shop mode.

4.Jadeja does not have a stronger claim than those.

Anyone who has scored 3 triples in the last 15 months automatically jumps to the top of the list, based on form alone. There is a salient point in blooding someone in favourable conditions when their confidence is very high that can make all the difference sometimes.

5.Do not compare dravid with jadeja.

They are comparable to certain extent. Perhaps you lack the nuance or the desire to compare and contrast finer points of technique and temperament and for you comparisons begin and end with 'average, performances away/home' type of 'complete comparisons only' but to some, there are plenty of aspects that players of various different callibres and successes share with each other.

All in all you either are trolling here or you have not watched jadeja bat or you have not watched jadeja bat.

I have watched him bat, particularly in Ranjis.

[CG]

Again, i think this is because he is an inherently defensive mindset player. You did not answer my question-have you watched Dravid from his first two-three years of ODIs (i believe he finally got the hang of it after 2.5 years of ODI cricket) ? If so, then you must know that the above really applied to Dravid too. My point is, an inherently defensive minded batsman is not to be judged batting lower middle order in ODIs. Err Rohit and Tiwary most definitely do not have the temperament, Kohli is suspect too. Again, don't wave me just stats, realize that there are plenty of strokeplayers who make hay at lower levels but do not have the temperament to get stuck in and grind when necessary. What have you learnt this series about Kohli ? That he is not the man (yet) to say 'okay, team in trouble at 100/3, time to score only on bad deliveries and get to 50 in 150 balls and then take it from there'. I do not think you realize what temperament means or i am alluding to, for Rohit is the archetype of lacking test match temperament- a wonderful player who simply does something stupid if you keep him quiet for a while. VVS was never the accelerator, atleast not right off the start. He mostly was a dour blocker till he got 20-25 runs and then unfurled a few drives and flicks and then got going. I can show you piles and piles of example where VVS ended the day/session having scored 30 off of 90 balls and taken India from 50-3/70-4 to 150/200-ish with the loss of one wicket or none. That VVS was a wonderful strokeplayer was a bonus. That he every now and then went into 'God mode' and scored merrily against the best attacks with their tails up, is a huge bonus. But what made VVS the cornerstone of our lower-middle order was his dour starts and no-nonsense play when situation demanded a shutting shop mode. Anyone who has scored 3 triples in the last 15 months automatically jumps to the top of the list, based on form alone. There is a salient point in blooding someone in favourable conditions when their confidence is very high that can make all the difference sometimes. They are comparable to certain extent. Perhaps you lack the nuance or the desire to compare and contrast finer points of technique and temperament and for you comparisons begin and end with 'average, performances away/home' type of 'complete comparisons only' but to some, there are plenty of aspects that players of various different callibres and successes share with each other. I have watched him bat, particularly in Ranjis.

1.Dravid could not find gaps ,But his defence was always solid.Jadeja does not have a good technique nor will to slog it out. 2.So one series is the judje.Do you watch matches where jadeja does not play ,Kohli had slogged it out in perth and adelaide and against nz too.If you can score quickly does not mean you lack temperament 3.V.V.S came at crucial moments according to situation in some innings he accelerated and some he defended.jadeja does not have the ability. 4.You got to be jadeja fanatic if you can compare jadeja to dravid.

[Tridibans_16]

I am sorry' date=' but you just do not have a better team, man to man[/quote'] On current form, I have to agree with you, sadly

[Muloghonto]

1.Dravid could not find gaps ' date='But his defence was always solid.Jadeja does not have a good technique [b']nor will to slog it out.

The latter part is what makes him a good candidate for the longer format- does not have the will to slog it out. As for not having a good technique, as i have said numerous times, when it comes to test cricket, attitude far outweighs technique or atleast, can make-up for it. Those who display the correct attitude (read: phlegmatic) and have first class runs deserve to get a shot, teams like England & South Africa have made nifty careers out of technically limited but correct attitude players.

2.So one series is the judje.Do you watch matches where jadeja does not play ,Kohli had slogged it out in perth and adelaide and against nz too.If you can score quickly does not mean you lack temperament

If you can't score slowly, it is a major drawback in test cricket. Kohli so far has not demonstrated the ability to shut shop and see off a bowler without taking any risks. Vital part of Test batting.

3.V.V.S came at crucial moments according to situation in some innings he accelerated and some he defended.jadeja does not have the ability.

Nonsense. VVS almost always played circumspect until he had 20-25 runs. 80% of VVS starts were 10 off of 40 balls type of start. We need someone phlegmatic at #6. It is no coincidence that players who 'defend first, attack when provided the opportunity' types, such as Tugga, VVS, Chanderpaul,Cronje, Ranatunga, Samaraweera, the list goes on. Most successful #6 batsmen have been of the dour putting a price on their wicket types, not fluent strokemakers who are only good for a 15 off of 25 balls when things go tough.

4.You got to be jadeja fanatic if you can compare jadeja to dravid.

Again, you know not what i spea of. Jadeja would do mighty well to be half as accomplished as Dravid. But that does not mean there are aspects of temperament that he shares with Dravid. Saying XYZ is like ABC in 'this' regard precisely means that- that in the said regard, they are similar. Does not mean they are an overall comparison. Only a fool would think that Jadeja is as good as Dravid and only a fool would fail to see that as far as temperament goes, Jadeja and Pujara have more in common with Dravid than Kohli or Sharma.

[Tridibans_16]

OP: Please tell me Ravindra Jadeja won't play Ok.... I am telling you Ravindra Jadeja won't play.

[CG]

The latter part is what makes him a good candidate for the longer format- does not have the will to slog it out. As for not having a good technique, as i have said numerous times, when it comes to test cricket, attitude far outweighs technique or atleast, can make-up for it. Those who display the correct attitude (read: phlegmatic) and have first class runs deserve to get a shot, teams like England & South Africa have made nifty careers out of technically limited but correct attitude players. If you can't score slowly, it is a major drawback in test cricket. Kohli so far has not demonstrated the ability to shut shop and see off a bowler without taking any risks. Vital part of Test batting. Nonsense. VVS almost always played circumspect until he had 20-25 runs. 80% of VVS starts were 10 off of 40 balls type of start. We need someone phlegmatic at #6. It is no coincidence that players who 'defend first, attack when provided the opportunity' types, such as Tugga, VVS, Chanderpaul,Cronje, Ranatunga, Samaraweera, the list goes on. Most successful #6 batsmen have been of the dour putting a price on their wicket types, not fluent strokemakers who are only good for a 15 off of 25 balls when things go tough. Again, you know not what i spea of. Jadeja would do mighty well to be half as accomplished as Dravid. But that does not mean there are aspects of temperament that he shares with Dravid. Saying XYZ is like ABC in 'this' regard precisely means that- that in the said regard, they are similar. Does not mean they are an overall comparison. Only a fool would think that Jadeja is as good as Dravid and only a fool would fail to see that as far as temperament goes, Jadeja and Pujara have more in common with Dravid than Kohli or Sharma.

1.What I Meant was will to defend and see through spells.He Does not have the Temperament to do so agianst good ranji sides let alone top sides in international cricket.Attitude can only take u so far Basic technique is always important. 2. .If you cannot see through spells and hang on it may be a drawback .But not being able to score slowly :hysterical: 3.BS .Offcourse you will be circumspect when you start .But times are when you have to attack like his 1st innings against australia in 2001 or many such instances.One dimensional players cannot do it.V.v.s is not fluent stroke maker are u joking :hysterical: 4.Jadeja is a failure in odi now he will be at test and hope you see it.

[vvvslaxman]

OP: Please tell me Ravindra Jadeja won't play Ok.... I am telling you Ravindra Jadeja won't play.

:giggle:

[vvvslaxman]

Wow Ravindra jadeja is being analyzed with bullet points.. quiet a progress :cantstop:

[namasteji1]

He will play surely in starting 11, has performed well in recent and just concluded match. Also awana will play in place of Zaheer. So i think Jadeja will come in place of Yuvraj which is unfortunate for Rahane but you have to keep in mind team's balance.

[Magneto]

Hey are you a journo or something? How do you get to watch so many games?

I'm just a backpacker/nomad. Pack your bags and leave for the match, what else. Yeah, buy that ticket. :winky: