What is wrong with this country?

[Tiger80]

Consider this,we recently purchased a flat in TN and were all set to move in but the entire apartment was yet to receive sanction from the electricity board.When i queried the builder he told me it was because some babus at the muncipal office were demanding a bribe of Rs20000 per connection :omg: and he didnt have enough money with him. I asked him why he didnt report this to some authority and he said it was because he bribed these same guys for evading some norms/taxes etc.He now wants the residents to pay extra to get the connections. Ever since i returned to India,i've had run-ins with officials,cops and traffic constables who all wanted bribes and the sad part is everyone other than me is willing to give them what they want.The sad truth is i cant wait to get out of this country.I dont understand how the rest of you are managing

One of the big problem is now people just include bribes as part of their pay package when they join govt service.almost every Indian is getting addicted to haraam kaa paisa which comes to them in one way or another

[veer]

GautiMaan.... have you recently moed to India?

[Clarke]

What you actually dealt with is business as usual, there's much worse cases in certain regions wherein the property is held by some goons and you pay far bigger amounts to get it back. The movie, Khosla ka Ghosla was based on such a theme. One should not be surprised at all, those corruption index based rankings after all make more sense than otherwise.

[The Dark Horse]

Sad but true

[GautiMaan]

GautiMaan.... have you recently moed to India?

I was born here,moved abroad with parents when i was pretty small. Now im back here,which is why i think i have more of a problem with this nonsense than others.

[veer]

I was born here,moved abroad with parents when i was pretty small. Now im back here,which is why i think i have more of a problem with this nonsense than others.

that's what I thought.. I am on the same boat and pondering about going through the same journey.. I am thinking of moving back to India too in a year or two after 15 yrs of living aborad(USA).. and thinking if I'll like India with corruption n every thing else that is wrong... I was born and brought up there so I know how things are and I go there almost every year... but dont know if i'll like work culture and day to day life there... any input/tip on this subject? do you regret it?

[Mariyam]

Consider this' date='we recently purchased a flat in TN and were all set to move in but the entire apartment was [b']yet to receive sanction from the electricity board.When i queried the builder he told me it was because some babus at the muncipal office were demanding a bribe of Rs20000 per connection :omg: and he didnt have enough money with him.

As far as I can tell, the builder is lying to you. Receiving a sanction/ NOC from the electricity board, water works department, environmental wing of the local govt. and a check by the land registrar are necessary before the go ahead is given to the builder to carry out the construction. This is an ad hoc process. After the construction, there is an inspection by the municipal inspectors ( mainly for residential complexes) which inspects the water and electricity situation and make random checks on the structural quality of the building. There is no way a builder can go ahead with the construction if he doesn't have the necessary sanctions from the electricity board. Note that a sanction just says that the electricity board/agency has agreed to provide the plot with a minimum quote of electricity for the year. Doesn't ever mention anything about power cuts and load shedding. And a builder can't cough up Rs 20,000 / connection?? :D Your deed and municipal agreement would state that the house you bought has all the necessary sanctions and if the builder reneges on an agreement ( with you or any of the boards) and fails to provide for a mentioned/promised service he is liable to punishment. Or something to this tune.

I asked him why he didnt report this to some authority and he said it was because he bribed these same guys for evading some norms/taxes etc.He now wants the residents to pay extra to get the connections.

The municipal board officials helping a builder evade ( or at least lessen) taxes is a norm in most new construction. They do this by showing lesser FSI, using faulty reference points (time wise) for calculation of municipal tax and loads of other methods. This happens every time and should have nothing to do with the electricity sanction. Like I said, that is one of the many pre-requisites to the construction.

Ever since i returned to India' date='i've had run-ins with officials,cops and traffic constables who all wanted bribes and the sad part is everyone other than me is willing to give them what they want.The sad truth is i cant wait to get out of this country.I dont understand how the rest of you are managing[/quote'] All this, is unfortunately true. What you can do is group up with the other residents. Check if they too had to cough up Rs 20,000 per flat for their connections or if they had to pay different amounts. Me thinks the builder is just fabricating the entire stuff to 'extort' money from unsuspecting folks. There are ample legal forums ( the non online variety) that tackle issues like these. I can smell larceny from miles away. Very fishy stuff this, from the builder.

[anotherhawkeye]

No one in that country gives a sh1t...chalta hai attitude prevails. No one wants to deal with corruption...just let it be...O riots happening? let it be...someone beating some woman..let it be...someone just stole someone's wallet? let it be...eve teasing happening? let it be How else do you explain people throwing garbage on the street, in the park, on the beach, in the river without an ounce of care, however they're very careful to clean and keep the inside of their house neat & clean. No one gives a damn as long it's public property. Everyone just looking for momentary solution hence willing to bribe these people. .

Post of the month. And an unfortunate truth. The same chalta hai attitude, that everyone takes pride in is, the culprit. Sent from my SGH-i937 using Board Express

[GautiMaan]

As far as I can tell, the builder is lying to you. Receiving a sanction/ NOC from the electricity board, water works department, environmental wing of the local govt. and a check by the land registrar are necessary before the go ahead is given to the builder to carry out the construction. This is an ad hoc process. After the construction, there is an inspection by the municipal inspectors ( mainly for residential complexes) which inspects the water and electricity situation and make random checks on the structural quality of the building. There is no way a builder can go ahead with the construction if he doesn't have the necessary sanctions from the electricity board. Note that a sanction just says that the electricity board/agency has agreed to provide the plot with a minimum quote of electricity for the year. Doesn't ever mention anything about power cuts and load shedding.

Wow,ur quite knowledgeable.I called the fecker up,he now says that he's got the sanctions but they're asking for bribes for installation of electricity meter.But he has given this same explanation to the other residents also.Will see them in person and find out what he is upto.

What you can do is group up with the other residents. Check if they too had to cough up Rs 20,000 per flat for their connections or if they had to pay different amounts. Me thinks the builder is just fabricating the entire stuff to 'extort' money from unsuspecting folks. There are ample legal forums ( the non online variety) that tackle issues like these. I can smell larceny from miles away. Very fishy stuff this, from the builder.

Dont worry,i have no intentions of paying bribe to any of these schmucks builder or babu I am just not looking forward to the confrontations ahead and was lamenting why things have to be so difficult here.My parents also dont want me to waste my time on this as I have semester coming up in a week,they say just do what the others are doing.

[GautiMaan]

that's what I thought.. I am on the same boat and pondering about going through the same journey.. I am thinking of moving back to India too in a year or two after 15 yrs of living aborad(USA).. and thinking if I'll like India with corruption n every thing else that is wrong... I was born and brought up there so I know how things are and I go there almost every year... but dont know if i'll like work culture and day to day life there... any input/tip on this subject? do you regret it?

Veer im sorry to say this,it depends on how much money u have.Take for example the issue of regular power cuts,if u have an inverter u will not have a problem. Generally the traffic here will make u go mad,most things are chaotic.Petrol prices are insane,pollution levels are over the roof. In spite of all this i do enjoy life,dont ask me how

[akshayxyz]

It is extremely difficult to fight corrupt system by yourself, especially when you have other priorities and responsibilities in life. But it definitely is not impossible - and the battle takes very long, so it requires patience - and public support or some power-backup always helps. On one of the email-groups I used to receive regular updates from a guy "Varun Arya". This guy has successfully built a College (Aravali Institue of Management, Jodhpur) on a barren land w/o paying single paise to govt/bureaucrats, surviving through numerous death threats too. I can not copy all the emails here, here is one of the email which summarizes the approach in tacking one of the issues. (no the email was not addressed to me)

Dear xxxx Appreciate very much your mail. I thought of reading the attachment of your mail when I had some free time and I have just finished carefully reading it. You have faced the onslaught of only the Service Tax deptt. We have faced MHRD, AICTE, state government, local administration, police, CID, service tax, income tax and many many others during the initial three years - everyone trying to extract money from us by trying to harass us by asking us repeatedly same questions, which were already answered. I can say with immense pride that we have not paid the single paise to anyone. Today no one from the government - state as well as central, repeat no one, can stand at our gate and ask for any favour. No one can give a ring and ask me to meet him or anyone. Let me share with you our approach : - Never consult any lawyers. The lawyers are generally the liars. Their interest is more in exploiting the client, rather than helping the client. We have always consulted the serving senior judges at their residences and have always got the right advice, despite the lawyers telling us that consulting the judges may be construed as the contempt of court. Of course, we did not have to pay anything to any judge for their advice and guidance. In fact I had the pleasure to savour their so gracious hospitality at their residences. The cases were fought by us and we insisted with the concerned judge of our case that we wanted the hearing and judgement and not "dates". Wherever we found that the judge of our case was swaying in favour of the other party for the reasons other than merit, we always complained about the judge to the Chief Justices of the Supreme Court and High Court. - Never consult any CA. They are generally the agents of the various taxation departments and taxation officers. Take your own decisions and just go ahead with the same. - Whenever a complaint is made about any officer or judge to the higher authorities, always copy the complaint to the concerned officer or judge so that he/she is aware of the nature of complaint. - Never call any officer or judge as "Saheb" and do not extend any courtesies except a simple glass of water. If he asks for any favour, just ask him to get out. - Insist that the officer visits you after fixing prior appointment. If he/she comes without fixing appointment then tell him/her to go back and come after fixing appointment. - Never visit the office of the concerned officer. He will make you wait and show his importance. - Never answer any queries, never show any documents and never provide any documents without first getting their need and purpose in writing and also his/her showing you his/her identity card. - Expose the concerned officer to all his/her seniors in writing including right upto FM and even PM & President as well, as may be deemed appropriate. When required, share this with press & media and other like-minded people as well. Just to illustrate the above, I am attaching some communications which I had sent to the Income Tax Department. These were sent despite the advice to the contrary by everyone. I sent these because I personally believed that what I was doing was right and I had a right to do so. In any case, ultimately the Chief Commissioner of Income Tax informed me that an enquiry was instituted against the concerned officer and he was shunted out. After that no officer dared to visit us or send us any notice. Similar has been our story with every department, including even the service tax department (a letter to them too is attached). I will be glad to meet to you to discuss the matter so that a suitable action plan can be made to ensure your being free from problems created by the service tax deptt. Remember - when the going gets tough; the tough gets going. Please never ever give up! I would like to forward your mail to various groups dealing with fighting the corruption and also IIMA groups. Kindly give your permission. Thanks and best regards Varun

Make note that - it addresses tacking corruption issues with one specific govt body (and in different locality). So, it may not apply to the crooks you are facing. I hope it can at least inspire you, others. I will see if I can find any more relevant stuff from his emails.

[akshayxyz]

Also, try to locate folks who have already tried fighting same battle esp in your area - successfully or otherwise. Going in a battle with preparation, learning from others experiences always helps.

[akshayxyz]

Varun Arya's interview on keypoints of his fight against corruption. http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/1206260/1596072250/name/NGI%20Aug%202011%20issue.pdf

[GautiMaan]

It is extremely difficult to fight corrupt system by yourself, especially when you have other priorities and responsibilities in life. But it definitely is not impossible - and the battle takes very long, so it requires patience - and public support or some power-backup always helps. On one of the email-groups I used to receive regular updates from a guy "Varun Arya". This guy has successfully built a College (Aravali Institue of Management, Jodhpur) on a barren land w/o paying single paise to govt/bureaucrats, surviving through numerous death threats too. I can not copy all the emails here, here is one of the email which summarizes the approach in tacking one of the issues. (no the email was not addressed to me) Make note that - it addresses tacking corruption issues with one specific govt body (and in different locality). So, it may not apply to the crooks you are facing. I hope it can at least inspire you, others. I will see if I can find any more relevant stuff from his emails.

Thanks for the readup akshay.My problem seems nothing when compared to what this guy went through:hatsoff:

[PriyankaSR]

There are ways to address this if you are serious about taking this particular problem.

You will have to in the future and then u will remember me:((

:(( I will, Bruh.

[Ram]

If you factor in things like 1) growing pollution 2) increasing population/wealth, but stagnant, degenerating infrastructure 3) total lack of compassion/respect for other peoples and their sensitivities 4)growing communal/religious/caste divides 5)Increasing risk of terror related risks, especially with the ones related to WMDs 6) General apathy/callousness of the civil society, in a couple of decades, it is quite likely that India will become literally 'unlivable'.

[adi B]

absolutely flabbergasted hearing this...its the truth which needs to be changed, attitude, mentality from each nd every citizen is as important as united winning the pl in the large term future

[akshayxyz]

Last time I heard - in bangalore, 25-30K of bribe is a norm of something as simple as house registration.

[GautiMaan]

^ Yup other than me no-one seems to care much,perhaps its because im settling here only now that it irks me so much.Maybe i'll become used to this **** in a couple of years

[akshayxyz]

^ Even if you become used to - don't feel guilty. To fight such a rotten system/monster you need time and resources - not everyone can afford. Just that, pass on the right values to your kids. Besides, you can always come back to 'fighting mode' when you have time and resources.