Yoda-esque Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Im not sure Serena would outmuscle her' date=' even if she is not as talented. She could probably beat all men outside the top 50[/quote'] No chance of that...She would lose to any man in the top 100 and that too easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi B Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Im not sure Serena would outmuscle her' date=' even if she is not as talented. She could probably beat all men outside the top 5[/quote'] :--D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda-esque Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Braasch competed in a 'Battle of the Sexes' contest against Venus Williams and Serena Williams at the 1998 Australian Open when he was ranked 203. A decade and a half older than the sisters, Braasch "was a man whose training regime centred around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager."[2] He nonetheless handily defeated both sisters, playing a single set against each, beating Serena 6–1 and Venus 6–2.[3] According to his own account of the event, he prepared for the game by playing a leisurely round of golf and drinking a couple of shandies.[4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Im not sure Serena would outmuscle her' date=' even if she is not as talented. She could probably beat all men outside the top 50[/quote'] Yaar, mazaak kar rahe ho kya? Graf in '88 did everything which was never thought possible before - defeated Navratilova on her favored court, won the French Open 6-0, 6-0, and had Sabatini say that she did not know how to improve her game to counter Graf during the US open and Olympics. Outmuscle? Maybe on ghatiya modern Wimbeldon courts, but overall I have never seen perfection of Tennis as achieved by Graf in'88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Im not sure Serena would outmuscle her' date=' even if she is not as talented. She could probably beat all men outside the top 50[/quote'] Dunno about that, Graf was outplayed by Monica Seles when Graf was in top game. Only a backstabber stopped Seles and made Graf get back her game. Speaking about difference in men v/s women's difference in ability, once McEnroe mentioned that top seeds in women will not be able to beat even the 100th seeded player in mens. I tend to believe that..after watching men's tennis, women;s game can be watched for aesthetic reasons only. Too boring to watch for the game itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Yaar' date=' mazaak kar rahe ho kya? [b']Graf in '88 did everything which was never thought possible before - defeated Navratilova on her favored court, won the French Open 6-0, 6-0, and had Sabatini say that she did not know how to improve her game to counter Graf during the US open and Olympics. Outmuscle? Maybe on ghatiya modern Wimbeldon courts, but overall I have never seen perfection of Tennis as achieved by Graf in'88. This is a very relevant post with regards to this thread which personally I find very lame.....I agree with you that Graf dominated the late 80's but people might start saying that her competitors were an aging Martina and mediocre Sabatini and Arantxa Sanchez maybe and she had her *** handed to her once Monica Seles hit the circuit. So I think you maybe on your way to disprove the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I agree re: Rafa and faster courts of the 90's' date=' not that it is his fault. It has made tennis a more exciting sport, with the kind of great rallies seen today...and yes does show the pointlessness of the debate - Rafa was lucky to be born in a different era too, [b']lucky he is left handed so that brutal forehand came down on Feds backhand wing, lucky that Novak did not peak earlier... you could go on and on. I do not disagree that Fed would not have won 16 slams if the Rafa and Novak were older- of course they are better than Roddick and hewitt... but you could flip the hypothetical argument to lessen anyones achievements...heck can you imagine if Roddick and Hewitt were even two or three years older, theyd have a few mroe slams.... I hope you know that Nadal is right handed but learnt to play left handed to take advantage of opponents - I doubt you can call that "luck". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda-esque Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 This is a very relevant post with regards to this thread which personally I find very lame.....I agree with you that Graf dominated the late 80's but people might start saying that her competitors were an aging Martina and mediocre Sabatini and Arantxa Sanchez maybe and she had her *** handed to her once Monica Seles hit the circuit. So I think you maybe on your way to disprove the OP I agree.Too many what-if and should-haves and could-haves. The fact is that there is always some matric that naysayers will hold a player by in order to diminish his/her achievements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 This is a very relevant post with regards to this thread which personally I find very lame.....I agree with you that Graf dominated the late 80's but people might start saying that her competitors were an aging Martina and mediocre Sabatini and Arantxa Sanchez maybe and she had her *** handed to her once Monica Seles hit the circuit. So I think you maybe on your way to disprove the OP Graf had her own injury problems after the late 80s. And it's not that Seles dominated her even when Seles was at the top of her game and Graf was not. Ageing Navratilova? She still used to beat the crap out of anyone on grass till Graf and won a Wimbledon even after Graf's '88 run. Sabatini was hardly mediocre, yeah Sanchez was a clay court specialist but Sabatini had an all round impressive game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I don't know because Nadal "may have" adapted his game. May be Federer may have done bad - so let us stop being astrologers. Your point on Career GS is also moot because if it was so easy you don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry doing it. How many people have career GS since the 2000s? Only Federer and Nadal have them which is VERY VERY less. And please it's not just the courts have changed - equipment has changed too, training facilities are better as well. A career GS also has clay courts FYI. So you can't single out one factor to say THIS did it - there are multiple factors which lead to it. Only time will tell how easy or difficult it may be. The entire Grand Slam idea has become distorted. In earlier days a Grand Slam would count as winning all 4 major events in the same year and a Golden Slam as winning the Olympic medal to go along with it. Only Graf has been able to do it, rest like "Career Grand Slam" and "Career Golden Slam" are mere fabrications like the mahashatak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooda Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I hope you know that Nadal is right handed but learnt to play left handed to take advantage of opponents - I doubt you can call that "luck". Yeah I do , his uncle trained him to be lefty for that reason.... slipped my mind when typing that post ...the point about the OP being a bit silly still holds though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooda Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 ...and I was kinda exaggerating on that Serena point, just taking the piss of her almost manlike power...in the context of the womens game it is pretty next level....but vs men in all seriousness yeah outside top 100 if that..i mean Rosol the guy who beat Rafa at Wimbledon was outside the top 100 right?? He was hitting the ball pretty damn hard... Roddick jokes that when they were young Serena could bench press him with her little finger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 ...and I was kinda exaggerating on that Serena point, just taking the piss of her almost manlike power...in the context of the womens game it is pretty next level....but vs men in all seriousness yeah outside top 100 if that..i mean Rosol the guy who beat Rafa at Wimbledon was outside the top 100 right?? He was hitting the ball pretty damn hard... Roddick jokes that when they were young Serena could bench press him with her little finger Sooda, I don't think you watched Graf live in'88 - she was on a completely different plane from others. There is a documentary on youtube for her '88. It's in German but the shots are not in German. 7jH2E3jafNE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 There is nothing could have/should have or would have kinda logic about the fact that Federer numbers benefited a lot from lack of depth in ATP circuit between 2003 to 2007. I had asked two questions in my earlier posts which none of Federer-ist chose to answer. 1. Who has been the second best player of the era in which Federer dominated? 2. I had asked how many think that Federer's number of GS would have been even higher if Nadal and Djoko had not emerged. I can understand why Federer's fan avoiding an answer to this question. Yoda-E, I am not trolling here. I just honestly believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Raghav, I am not a Federer "fanboy", but it's unfair to compare a 30+ player with someone in his mid 20s - the modern peak in Tennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 There is nothing could have/should have or would have kinda logic about the fact that Federer numbers benefited a lot from lack of depth in ATP circuit between 2003 to 2007. I had asked two questions in my earlier posts which none of Federer-ist chose to answer. 1. Who has been the second best player of the era in which Federer dominated? 2. I had asked how many think that Federer's number of GS would have been even higher if Nadal and Djoko had not emerged. I can understand why Federer's fan avoiding an answer to this question. Yoda-E, I am not trolling here. I just honestly believe so. Roddick, Hewitt, Keurten were his competitos. FYI Roddick is leading 5-4 head to head against Djoko. Hewitt v Nada head to head 4-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooda Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Outy, she was great..no I was quite young in '88 :D but I did watch her live toward the later part of her career and watched her beat Seles in the final of (i think) Aus 96...even remember watching that 'will you marry me' -'how much money you got' match live on tv!!...probably too young to appreciate her greatness when watching her then but I would think the game has evolved so much since the 80's and even 90's that Graf would struggle vs Serena...and a lot of top mens players from the 90's would not cope today given how courts have changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJE4vCj155o]Serena Williams vs Steffi Graf 1999 Indian Wells Highlights - YouTube[/ame] power tennis vs classic tennis.. albeit one at the start of her career and one at the last year of her career. Retired in 1999. It was so ugly to watch Serena playing tennis. It is like watching an axe murder. Serena won. [ame= Williams vs Steffi Graf 1999 Sydney Highlights - YouTube[/ame] This one Graf won. Both games 3 setters. would you believe it. Identical scorelines in all 3 sets in both matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 The entire Grand Slam idea has become distorted. In earlier days a Grand Slam would count as winning all 4 major events in the same year and a Golden Slam as winning the Olympic medal to go along with it. Only Graf has been able to do it' date=' rest like "Career Grand Slam" and "Career Golden Slam" are mere fabrications like the mahashatak.[/quote'] +1 The "Career Grand Slam" are just like some new terms to put more honor. I've never heard them earlier until Federer won a French Open - I swear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Btw - Margaret Court would be a bloody good contender for Steffi Graf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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